MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[btx123]

1000$ withdrawed 12.10.2013. Money still not arrived.

[sturle]

I just find it humorous that your ineptitude to come to reality on the real situation at GOX and its USD withdrawal failures to meet customer demands is funny.

What is the "reality of the real situation", do you think?  Do you think I am wrong anywhere?  Whenever I prove you wrong, you just change the subject and go on like you were right.  Btw, you didn't answer why you think MtGox is so immensely more popular in the USSA than elsewhere in the world.

Your kool-aid, if you haven't already figured it out (please keep up) is your bias to think that MTGOX is in fact operating a completely transparent and open exchange and that the amount of volume of BTC traded there is still at the top of the list when this has obviously changed.

MtGox is among the most transparent and open exchanges in the world.  Much more open and transparent than the largest competitors.  Where is BTC-E located?  Who owns it?  Ditto for Bitstamp, etc.  I haven't claimed MtGox to be on top of the list for a long time.  BTC China took that position back in November last year, and I even pointed it out in this thread back then.

Who cares if they have all these nice whistles and bells if one of the main things wrong with the exchange is its USD withdrawals. That's like saying:

Most of their customers don't care about USD withdrawals.  I assume you care, but you are a minority.  Sorry.  Instead of exploiting the situation for profit, you keep being wrong in this thread instead.  That's your choice, I guess.

"Look at this super duper hott car with all of the features most other cars don't have, but it doesn't drive and allow the owner to actual benefit from the purpose of the car, i.e. get places."

If you think USD withdrawal is the most important feature of an exchange, you are wrong.  I can trade with ease and withdraw my profit as BTC or EUR.  Both are fine with me.  I wouldn't have any use for USD withdrawal.  I am like 95% of the population of the world.  I don't use USD to pay any of my daily expenses.  USD transfers are more expensive and involve a currency exchange every time.  USD withdrawal is like the cigarette lighter of your car.  Even  smokers don't use it very often for the originally intended purpose.  Some very few people can't do without the cigarette lighter, and you may be one of them.  The vast majority couldn't care less, as long as there is some compatible 12V outlet.

[N12]

Hey sturle. If nobody cares about SWIFT (again, this is NOT just USD), then how come the Bitcoin volume on MtGox has been deteriorating so much relatively to other exchanges (who have non-0 fees) who do handle SWIFT transfers? You think this is a coincidence?

What is the reason for the trend of falling and falling market share of MtGox?

[faiza1990]

1000$ withdrawed 12.10.2013. Money still not arrived.

don't worry you need 9 months more this withdraw because they are taking almost 1 year for each withdraw and you have only 3 months

[Bismarckbkk]

I just find it humorous that your ineptitude to come to reality on the real situation at GOX and its USD withdrawal failures to meet customer demands is funny.

What is the "reality of the real situation", do you think?  Do you think I am wrong anywhere?  Whenever I prove you wrong, you just change the subject and go on like you were right.  Btw, you didn't answer why you think MtGox is so immensely more popular in the USSA than elsewhere in the world.

Your kool-aid, if you haven't already figured it out (please keep up) is your bias to think that MTGOX is in fact operating a completely transparent and open exchange and that the amount of volume of BTC traded there is still at the top of the list when this has obviously changed.

MtGox is among the most transparent and open exchanges in the world.  Much more open and transparent than the largest competitors.  Where is BTC-E located?  Who owns it?  Ditto for Bitstamp, etc.  I haven't claimed MtGox to be on top of the list for a long time.  BTC China took that position back in November last year, and I even pointed it out in this thread back then.

Who cares if they have all these nice whistles and bells if one of the main things wrong with the exchange is its USD withdrawals. That's like saying:

Most of their customers don't care about USD withdrawals.  I assume you care, but you are a minority.  Sorry.  Instead of exploiting the situation for profit, you keep being wrong in this thread instead.  That's your choice, I guess.

"Look at this super duper hott car with all of the features most other cars don't have, but it doesn't drive and allow the owner to actual benefit from the purpose of the car, i.e. get places."

If you think USD withdrawal is the most important feature of an exchange, you are wrong.  I can trade with ease and withdraw my profit as BTC or EUR.  Both are fine with me.  I wouldn't have any use for USD withdrawal.  I am like 95% of the population of the world.  I don't use USD to pay any of my daily expenses.  USD transfers are more expensive and involve a currency exchange every time.  USD withdrawal is like the cigarette lighter of your car.  Even  smokers don't use it very often for the originally intended purpose.  Some very few people can't do without the cigarette lighter, and you may be one of them.  The vast majority couldn't care less, as long as there is some compatible 12V outlet.

What kind of simple fact simple fact that this company isnt processing withdrawals to USD customers do you not understand?

 USD withdrawals should be handled like any other currency. There is a thing called foreign exchange deposit account where a company should keep its customer deposits. Theyre clearly just not able to pay because they dont have to the funds to cover withdrawal requests. USD customers have the right like any other customer to recieve withdrawals. USD customers at MTgox certainly arent a fringe minority as you claim ( 5% lol ) . They most certainly are the biggest group single currency out of all beeing traded at all non Chinese exchanges. Also USD is not any more expensive to exchange then any other currency, youre just making shit up.  In what world do you live in that you claim most people dont use usd? In the global buisiness world USD is the most important currency. USD transfers are not any more expensive then youre precious euro or any other currency you can think of. USD will have the best exchange rate spread anywhere because everyone has it and everyone has use for it.

What about MTGox is transperant in your book? The only thing thats transperant is they dont have enough funds to cover withdrawal delays in a reasonable amount of time. The time people are waiting for their withdrawals is a surefire sign they rely on new deposits to pay old debts and they have a huge backlog of withdrawals and things arent going to get better from now on unless someone buys them out and honors all outstanding withdrawal request. The fact that the companys owners are known doesnt change that simple fact.

[biodieselchris]

$1k USD withdrawal initiated on 12-1-13 (to a US checking account). Has not arrived.

[sturle]

What kind of simple fact simple fact that this company isnt processing withdrawals to USD customers do you not understand?

This is well known.  Here are some quotes for you, heavily trimmed to remove noise in between.  Most nicks redacted:

Code:

03:02 < m> http://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/comments/1lufrj/class_action_lawsuit_against_mtgox/
03:03 <@MagicalTux> m, a class action in the US to force us to do something the US govt prevents us from doing might not lead you very far
03:07 <@MagicalTux> [11:07:33] <m> MagicalTux: if there is some specific US restriction in place, please do detail that so I can make contingency plans <- we are not legally allowed to discuss these
03:08 < B> MagicalTux: I still have accounts in my own name that are in New Zealand,  would I need to relocate back to New Zealand to be able to bind them to my Account in mtgox ?
03:08 <@MagicalTux> B, it depends on your nationality
03:09 < B> I currently reside in Japan and have my Bank Accounts here verified
03:09 < B> MagicalTux: "New Zealand" nationality  
03:09 <@MagicalTux> B, there shouldn't be any issue as long as you're not a US citizen
03:09 < e> MagicalTux: is there anything you can do to put my mind at ease that if I withdraw my USD it will eventually show up in my bank?
03:09 <@MagicalTux> e, we are working on improving the situation and been discussing this with the appropriate authorities, but things are moving very slowly
03:10 < e> MagicalTux: is the withdraw process for American customers simply 'slow' or is it actually just suspended as of now?  
03:11 <@MagicalTux> e, we are able to process up to 10 transfers a day via a third party
03:12 < e> MagicalTux: thank you for that honesty that helps build trust.
03:12 <@MagicalTux> e, unfortunately there is only so much we can say
04:43 <@MagicalTux> racerx, actually USD flowing from any country to any country (or even within the same country) go through the US

Many people have claimed to be on their way to the courts in this thread since August at least.  Everything from small claims court to class action suits.  One of them even claimed to be a lawyer.  Anyone care to comment on how it went?  I haven't heard of any success yet.

USD withdrawals should be handled like any other currency.

Tell that to the US government.  From the discussions it seems both USD transfers and services to US customers are sanctioned in various ways.

There is a thing called foreign exchange deposit account where a company should keep its customer deposits. Theyre clearly just not able to pay because they dont have to the funds to cover withdrawal requests.

What?  Tell me how you jumped to that conclusion!  They are funding other withdrawal requests.  Why would MtGox have any interest in delaying USD withdrawals specifically?

USD customers have the right like any other customer to recieve withdrawals. USD customers at MTgox certainly arent a fringe minority as you claim ( 5% lol ).

Please read again.  You managed to get two of my claims wrong in your last sentence.  The rest of your text is based on misunderstandings as well.

Also USD is not any more expensive to exchange then any other currency, youre just making shit up.

You should take a reading comprehension course.  If I transfer my native currency (NOK) from MtGox, I save the expense of a currency conversion from USD to NOK.  Please tell me which bank you use that pay their customers for having to do a currency conversion, as this is the only way it could be cheaper.

In what world do you live in that you claim most people dont use usd? In the global buisiness world USD is the most important currency.

Most people everywhere in the world use their own local currency.  Important is not the same as most used.  USD won't buy you anything around here.  Not a bread, not petrol, not a house, not your electric bills or your taxes either.  You would have to go to a bank and pay a fee to exchange it for the local currency if you want to buy anything or pay your bills.  I assume this is what most customers want their money for.  I can't even fund my PayPal account with USD without a conversion to my local currency first, and then PayPal will convert the money back to USD at PayPal at a 3.5% fee.

USD transfers are not any more expensive then youre precious euro or any other currency you can think of.

Yes, they are.  USD transfers are international wire transfers which are quite expensive to send and receive in most banks.  EUR transfers (SEPA) are free or much cheaper in all of the Single Euro Payment Area.

I won't care to comment on the crazy speculation you call facts.  It only goes to show you don't know the difference between fact and fantasy.

[smoothie]

Hey sturle. If nobody cares about SWIFT (again, this is NOT just USD), then how come the Bitcoin volume on MtGox has been deteriorating so much relatively to other exchanges (who have non-0 fees) who do handle SWIFT transfers? You think this is a coincidence?

What is the reason for the trend of falling and falling market share of MtGox?

I guess Sturle may have missed your post? Seems like a legitimate question....yet so far he has responded to the other posts below.

Maybe he is busy. 

[Bismarckbkk]

What kind of simple fact simple fact that this company isnt processing withdrawals to USD customers do you not understand?

This is well known.  Here are some quotes for you, heavily trimmed to remove noise in between.  Most nicks redacted:

Code:

03:02 < m> http://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/comments/1lufrj/class_action_lawsuit_against_mtgox/
03:03 <@MagicalTux> m, a class action in the US to force us to do something the US govt prevents us from doing might not lead you very far
03:07 <@MagicalTux> [11:07:33] <m> MagicalTux: if there is some specific US restriction in place, please do detail that so I can make contingency plans <- we are not legally allowed to discuss these
03:08 < B> MagicalTux: I still have accounts in my own name that are in New Zealand,  would I need to relocate back to New Zealand to be able to bind them to my Account in mtgox ?
03:08 <@MagicalTux> B, it depends on your nationality
03:09 < B> I currently reside in Japan and have my Bank Accounts here verified
03:09 < B> MagicalTux: "New Zealand" nationality  
03:09 <@MagicalTux> B, there shouldn't be any issue as long as you're not a US citizen
03:09 < e> MagicalTux: is there anything you can do to put my mind at ease that if I withdraw my USD it will eventually show up in my bank?
03:09 <@MagicalTux> e, we are working on improving the situation and been discussing this with the appropriate authorities, but things are moving very slowly
03:10 < e> MagicalTux: is the withdraw process for American customers simply 'slow' or is it actually just suspended as of now?  
03:11 <@MagicalTux> e, we are able to process up to 10 transfers a day via a third party
03:12 < e> MagicalTux: thank you for that honesty that helps build trust.
03:12 <@MagicalTux> e, unfortunately there is only so much we can say
04:43 <@MagicalTux> racerx, actually USD flowing from any country to any country (or even within the same country) go through the US

Many people have claimed to be on their way to the courts in this thread since August at least.  Everything from small claims court to class action suits.  One of them even claimed to be a lawyer.  Anyone care to comment on how it went?  I haven't heard of any success y

USD withdrawals should be handled like any other currency.

Tell that to the US government.  From the discussions it seems both USD transfers and services to US customers are sanctioned in various ways.

What about the fact that some users arent able to cancel their withdrawal requests? How does that fit into you MTgox isnt insolvent scheme?

If they KNOW they cant process withdrawals why did/do they even allow customer to request withdrawals and then lock the funds unable to cancel it?

Also

03:11 <@MagicalTux> e, we are able to process up to 10 transfers a day via a third party

. So they do have the option to process withdrawals via third party. [/color]

There is a thing called foreign exchange deposit account where a company should keep its customer deposits. Theyre clearly just not able to pay because they dont have to the funds to cover withdrawal requests.

What?  Tell me how you jumped to that conclusion!  They are funding other withdrawal requests.  Why would MtGox have any interest in delaying USD withdrawals specifically?

Because they had their accounts seized and dont have the money to honor usd withdrawal requests? What makes you say the delays only apply to usd withdrawals? Ive seen claims for euro withdrawals as well here. Ive also seen GBP withdrawals delayed beyond reason. They still are able to process those better because they didnt have those accounts seized but the delays indicate theyve used those customer deposits too.

USD customers have the right like any other customer to recieve withdrawals. USD customers at MTgox certainly arent a fringe minority as you claim ( 5% lol ).

Please read again.  You managed to get two of my claims wrong in your last sentence.  The rest of your text is based on misunderstandings as well.

You didnt exactly say that but you said usd withdrawals are not important because 95% of the world doesnt use the currency. If you didnt mean to marginalize usd then I dont know why you even said that. Who cares what currency you use to buy things in your own country, it has no meaning in relation to the topic. I dont pay my bills in usd as well but I still use it all the time. So tell me then why you said what you said.  What does it matter if your neighbours and grandparents dont use USD in europe? What matter how much buisiness MTgox does in USD.

Also USD is not any more expensive to exchange then any other currency, youre just making shit up.

You should take a reading comprehension course.  If I transfer my native currency (NOK) from MtGox, I save the expense of a currency conversion from USD to NOK.  Please tell me which bank you use that pay their customers for having to do a currency conversion, as this is the only way it could be cheaper.

So you were saying if you transfer NOK to mtgox without usd conversion you save money. Wow obviously I didnt comprehend that because it makes no sense to even mention in the context of this thread and has no tangible connection to why usd withdrawals are delayed. I foolishly thought what you were saying was in context with the topic at hand.

In what world do you live in that you claim most people dont use usd? In the global buisiness world USD is the most important currency.

Most people everywhere in the world use their own local currency.  Important is not the same as most used.  USD won't buy you anything around here.  Not a bread, not petrol, not a house, not your electric bills or your taxes either.  You would have to go to a bank and pay a fee to exchange it for the local currency if you want to buy anything or pay your bills.  I assume this is what most customers want their money for.  I can't even fund my PayPal account with USD without a conversion to my local currency first, and then PayPal will convert the money back to USD at PayPal at a 3.5% fee.

What does that have to do with anything? Whats the connection between MTgox withdrawals in usd and your own currency? Because you dont use USD means USD is not important in the world? Everyone I know who does buisiness these days has to use usd at least some of the time. Yes it involves a currency conversion but so what? Whats the connection between what you said and MTgox withdrawals? US is more widely used then any other currency, the fact that ordinary people in other countries use local currency is meaningless. Are you saying your local currency has more utility internationally then usd?


If your paypal account is in a different currency then what youre funding it with your obviously have to pay exchange fees. Whats your point exactly?

USD transfers are not any more expensive then youre precious euro or any other currency you can think of.

Yes, they are.  USD transfers are international wire transfers which are quite expensive to send and receive in most banks.  EUR transfers (SEPA) are free or much cheaper in all of the Single Euro Payment Area.

An international wire transfer for usd is NOT more expensive then any other transfer. SEPA is not a swift transfer but a SEPA transfer.

I won't care to comment on the crazy speculation you call facts.  It only goes to show you don't know the difference between fact and fantasy.

You just commented on everything I said dude lol

[sturle]

[Some completely messed up quoting with mixed in clueless comments in ugly colours.]

Please read a few pages of this thread before posting the same crazy ideas over again.  You are just as wrong as the rest for the same reasons which I am not going to repeat for the umpteenth time.  And use preview before posting.

[qxzn]

$1k USD withdrawal initiated on 12-1-13 (to a US checking account). Has not arrived.

did you opt for the 5% expedited processing?

[Bismarckbkk]

[Some completely messed up quoting with mixed in clueless comments in ugly colours.]

Please read a few pages of this thread before posting the same crazy ideas over again.  You are just as wrong as the rest for the same reasons which I am not going to repeat for the umpteenth time.  And use preview before posting.

You have trolled this thread for mtgoX all along and suddenly youre not gonna repeat yourself? Lol

If you cant comprehend that I quoted youre post and put my replies in red under your comments then I suggest you lay down the crack pipe and get some sleep.

Although if I fought a loosing battle having arguments I cant win and beeing exposed for posting completely irrelevant and false things Id propably resort to the same cheap tactics.

[smoothie]

Hey sturle. If nobody cares about SWIFT (again, this is NOT just USD), then how come the Bitcoin volume on MtGox has been deteriorating so much relatively to other exchanges (who have non-0 fees) who do handle SWIFT transfers? You think this is a coincidence?

What is the reason for the trend of falling and falling market share of MtGox?

I guess Sturle may have missed your post? Seems like a legitimate question....yet so far he has responded to the other posts below.

Maybe he is busy. 

Sturle care to comment on blitz's post? 

[Carlton Banks]

Shouldn't Bitpay be threatened? Sounds like their business model depends on Gox's.

[solex]

Shouldn't Bitpay be threatened? Sounds like their business model depends on Gox's.

I am sure by now that BitPay would have robust links to all the major exchanges.

[JohanM]

That's not a rumor, that's a fact.
Mtgox Euro withdraw works and follows these rules:
- 6 weeks wait
- 20 days between each withdraw
- max 10000 € per day
- max 50000 € per month

Why on earth they do not explain clearly why USD withdraws are blocked I don't know.

[Carlton Banks]

Yeah, I guess if Bitpay have only USD, EUR and CNY accounts they can wire fiat to business clients without too much difficulty/conversion fees.

Mt Gox's Euro business is still looking good, and it appears that at least some USD customers are still using it in a roach motel config. Unless everyone's going to tell me that Gox are manipulating their volume figures too (you may as well say that everyone does that). And from the last 5 pages of this thread (not much point in reading hundreds), the Gox doom-mongers have been saying the (sliding) numbers are real. Unless they're fake and sliding   (how can you be at all sure of both?)

Seems a bit FUD-ish even still, I can understand some people might be pissed off at Gox if their money's in wire limbo, but surely joining a mega thread where everyone crys about it is only going to make the situation worse.

[Bismarckbkk]

Those withdraw restrictions waiting times on euro doesnt " look good " .

- 6 weeks wait
- 20 days between each withdraw
- max 10000 € per day
- max 50000 € per month

It seems to me that at best you can withdraw 10k every 20 days not 50k/ month.

[PolymorphicAssasin]

1) Date: 2013-11-28
2) Date: 2013-12-01
3) Date: 2013-12-03
4) Date: 2013-12-05
5) Date: 2013-12-07

All transfers in USD between $800/850 and have not arrived yet.  I submitted a support request asking for the status of my transfers on January 3rd, and finally retrieved a reply on January 17th (Yes, 2 weeks to get a form letter response).  The reply was a form letter that basically said 'After reviewing your account we can confirm that you are verified.'  Which I knew, and isn't what I asked for. 

I don't care the reason; be it incompetence, insolvency, or government actions, this is no way to run a legitimate business.   If they are having this many issues processing USD withdrawals, there should be communication to their users of such difficulty.  You shouldn't have to come to a 3rd party run message board to find a hacked-up transcript of an IRC chat log to get real answers.  If they can publish the limits and problems in IRC, they can put them on the home page, or in the UI when users attempt USD withdrawals.

I'm getting all my assets out of there as quickly as possible.  It's a shame to see such a pillar of early Bitcoinia fall so far.

[sd]

Withdrawal delays are a sign the company does not keep segregated accounts of customer deposits. I have a wealth of experience with that kind of stuff from online gambling sites.

I have seen the same pattern over and over with registered and rubberstamp licensed companys. When withdrawal delays become unreasonable long and endemic its a clear sign that the company is short on funds and has spent customer deposits.

In every case that Iam aware off all the companys have eventually closed down and customers left stranded with no way to recover anything. Once a company goes down that route they rely on new deposits to pay out old debts. Its a vicious cycle that wont end well.

How could they have run out of money? They should be making enough on their transaction charges to cover all their running costs and make a strong profit.