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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 856536 times)
tvbcof
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October 25, 2013, 06:20:41 PM
 #2121


I decided that 5 BTC was not trivial enough to count as nothing, and I cannot see a reason to do business with Mt. Gox again as long as Coinbase is performant, so I withdrew 4.9 BTC + a transaction fee.  It was confirmed in the target (a Coinbase addy) within minutes.

My intl wire for $5k remains in 'confirmed' mode on their UI as it has since 15-Aug.

I figure it most likely that if I want to see my $5k, I'll need to attempt to obtain it through the legal system of the US govt which holds directly $5M and can make a grab for another $5M from the probably scattered parties associated with Coinlabs.  Anyone have any thoughts about what data I might solicit in order to pursue such an adventure?  It's not probably enough in straight dollar terms to get all lawyered up over, and efforts to leverage the loss politically are futile without some interest on the part of Mt. Gox.


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Nagle
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October 25, 2013, 06:57:00 PM
 #2122

I figure it most likely that if I want to see my $5k, I'll need to attempt to obtain it through the legal system of the US govt which holds directly $5M and can make a grab for another $5M from the probably scattered parties associated with Coinlabs.  Anyone have any thoughts about what data I might solicit in order to pursue such an adventure?
If you want to do that, there are time limits on how long you can claim against a forfeiture. Get legal advice fast.

If you were to sue Mt. Gox in Delaware small claims court, and win (or they don't show up), you'd have a US judgement against them. (Mt. Gox created a legal presence in Delaware so they could register with FinCen. That provides an entity you can sue in Delaware.)

Then you can try to collect from funds the US Government is holding. According to Japanese law, if Mt. Gox is a Payment Services Agency, you own the money; you're not just a creditor of Mt. Gox. That puts you in a stronger position to claim against a forfeiture.  Again, get legal advice.
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October 25, 2013, 07:42:35 PM
 #2123

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes.  The explanation for SEPA delays can be found earlier in this thread (someone even called their bank to hear it from them), and everyone else are bored by hearing it over and over.  SEPA has been delayed for the same reason since they changed to the Polish bank more than a year ago.
Let's make a bet - 1 BTC - that in 30 days time nothing will change.
Regarding SEPA, yes.  Their  limit will not change until they have completed their registration as a financial institution.

Regarding other fiat withdrawal option, I expect most of their problems will be resolved within a month, and the fastest fiat withdrawal option (except domestic JPY and manual express international wire) to take less than a week before Christmas.  I'm willing to bet 1 BTC on this.

sturle, you can send my 1 BTC to 1Hk5ieasp6o2k2LpUFjzqjKV8Auj3FUxAU
tvbcof
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October 25, 2013, 07:57:13 PM
 #2124

I figure it most likely that if I want to see my $5k, I'll need to attempt to obtain it through the legal system of the US govt which holds directly $5M and can make a grab for another $5M from the probably scattered parties associated with Coinlabs.  Anyone have any thoughts about what data I might solicit in order to pursue such an adventure?
If you want to do that, there are time limits on how long you can claim against a forfeiture. Get legal advice fast.

If you were to sue Mt. Gox in Delaware small claims court, and win (or they don't show up), you'd have a US judgement against them. (Mt. Gox created a legal presence in Delaware so they could register with FinCen. That provides an entity you can sue in Delaware.)

Then you can try to collect from funds the US Government is holding. According to Japanese law, if Mt. Gox is a Payment Services Agency, you own the money; you're not just a creditor of Mt. Gox. That puts you in a stronger position to claim against a forfeiture.  Again, get legal advice.

I'd have to believe that the statute of limitations does not make it imperative that I file with all haste.  And even if so, I partially wrote off these funds even before I instigated the wire.

The thing I value most are the identity documents I sent to Mt. Gox, so the best case scenario is that their operation is seized in total, and any former employees are scared shitless and not likely to attempt to sell said docs independently on the market.

The idea of getting a claim in in Delaware is actually a good one.  As I mentioned before, it's not something which I'm willing to retain an attorney for due to the likely economics and general hassle.  I would, however, be interested in a joint effort with similarly effected and situated parties to hire legally competent counsel to produce something of a general template that we could all use.


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October 25, 2013, 09:02:22 PM
 #2125

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes.  The explanation for SEPA delays can be found earlier in this thread (someone even called their bank to hear it from them), and everyone else are bored by hearing it over and over.  SEPA has been delayed for the same reason since they changed to the Polish bank more than a year ago.
Let's make a bet - 1 BTC - that in 30 days time nothing will change.
Regarding SEPA, yes.  Their  limit will not change until they have completed their registration as a financial institution.

Regarding other fiat withdrawal option, I expect most of their problems will be resolved within a month, and the fastest fiat withdrawal option (except domestic JPY and manual express international wire) to take less than a week before Christmas.  I'm willing to bet 1 BTC on this.
sturle, you can send my 1 BTC to 1Hk5ieasp6o2k2LpUFjzqjKV8Auj3FUxAU
I understand that as an acceptance of the bet on my terms.  Send 1 BTC to 1Ls8R9Guguq51r1ok2xachi7XA79kkA4jQ if I win.  (Note that I agreed with you regarding SEPA and the 30 days.)

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
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October 26, 2013, 01:55:12 AM
 #2126

It looks like my SEPA from 9/13 has gone from "Confirmed" to "Pending" so I guess it may be on its way!

So looks like we are up to 9/13 for the SEPA transfers currently.


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October 26, 2013, 09:41:24 AM
 #2127

It looks like my SEPA from 9/13 has gone from "Confirmed" to "Pending" so I guess it may be on its way!

So looks like we are up to 9/13 for the SEPA transfers currently.



Nice, looks like they used a looong time on that day, hope it was because of an extraordinary amount of withdraws. Ill let you guys know when they progress 21 sept.
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October 26, 2013, 07:08:30 PM
 #2128

If you want to do that, there are time limits on how long you can claim against a forfeiture. Get legal advice fast.

If you were to sue Mt. Gox in Delaware small claims court, and win (or they don't show up), you'd have a US judgement against them. (Mt. Gox created a legal presence in Delaware so they could register with FinCen. That provides an entity you can sue in Delaware.)

Then you can try to collect from funds the US Government is holding. According to Japanese law, if Mt. Gox is a Payment Services Agency, you own the money; you're not just a creditor of Mt. Gox. That puts you in a stronger position to claim against a forfeiture.  Again, get legal advice.
I'd have to believe that the statute of limitations does not make it imperative that I file with all haste. 
The rules under forfeiture law are tough. You may only have 60 days after the forfeiture.

Unless the court for good cause sets a different time, the claim must be filed: ...
(C) if notice was not published and direct notice was not sent to the claimant or the claimant's attorney" ...
If the property was not in the government's possession, custody, or control when the complaint was filed ... 60 days after process was executed on the property under Rule G(3).


It may already be too late to file against the Dwolla forfeiture. Talk to a lawyer.
tvbcof
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October 26, 2013, 07:20:02 PM
 #2129

If you want to do that, there are time limits on how long you can claim against a forfeiture. Get legal advice fast.

If you were to sue Mt. Gox in Delaware small claims court, and win (or they don't show up), you'd have a US judgement against them. (Mt. Gox created a legal presence in Delaware so they could register with FinCen. That provides an entity you can sue in Delaware.)

Then you can try to collect from funds the US Government is holding. According to Japanese law, if Mt. Gox is a Payment Services Agency, you own the money; you're not just a creditor of Mt. Gox. That puts you in a stronger position to claim against a forfeiture.  Again, get legal advice.
I'd have to believe that the statute of limitations does not make it imperative that I file with all haste. 
The rules under forfeiture law are tough. You may only have 60 days after the forfeiture.

Unless the court for good cause sets a different time, the claim must be filed: ...
(C) if notice was not published and direct notice was not sent to the claimant or the claimant's attorney" ...
If the property was not in the government's possession, custody, or control when the complaint was filed ... 60 days after process was executed on the property under Rule G(3).


It may already be too late to file against the Dwolla forfeiture. Talk to a lawyer.

Seems ambiguous.  The Dwolla forfeiture happened even before I converted BTC to USD (or instructed Mt. Gox to do so more accurately) so I cannot see a specific claim to that money.  The best bet would seem to be that the USG would be prone to handing out that money to people who have some general and documented claim against Mt. Gox prior to deciding how to handle the remaining balance.  This I would not anticipate for years, but having something submitted and sitting there wouldn't hurt.

I'm not going to rush right out and retain an attorney for a piddly $5k, particularly since I would not likely see a return on the not insignificant investment (in time and money) for some years at least, and probably never.  I do however remain interested in a group effort where the cost burden is shared and the time/hassle factor is significantly reduced.  Not interested enough to actually attempt to form a coalition however.  I made some efforts at doing so related to the Instawallet/Paymium (supposed) hack and theft, and they went nowhere.


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October 26, 2013, 09:13:06 PM
 #2130

Almost 4 weeks now for my 10K (SEPA)

The funny thing is that they are (still) saying on the withdrawal page that SEPA may take up to two weeks 
with BOLD fonds

what's wrong with MtGox?
why can't they find another Bank in the EU to do their business (if that is the problem)


I start to fill that they have a huge problem
and the sooner it pops the better for bitcoin in general

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October 27, 2013, 01:21:57 AM
 #2131

Even though it does say up to two weeks or whatever on the site, the customer service reps are being honest in emails. 

I got this back from a direct inquiry last week.

Quote
Oct 23 11:04 (JST):
Hello,

Thank you for the email. As of now all the International withdrawals are delayed due to the huge backlogs and we do not have an ETA at the moment. We are working hard to clear the backlogs and put back things to normal.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team

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eZc
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October 27, 2013, 07:51:29 PM
 #2132

This was some time ago. Is there still a delay for Eur Sepa transfers??
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October 27, 2013, 08:02:21 PM
 #2133

Dear MtGox
I canceled my withdrawal , bought back the coins and moving to bitstamp
it was (not-so) nice working with you but you can go fuck yourself
I hope you guys go bankrupt



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October 27, 2013, 11:17:54 PM
 #2134

Dear MtGox
I canceled my withdrawal , bought back the coins and moving to bitstamp
it was (not-so) nice working with you but you can go fuck yourself
I hope you guys go bankrupt




 Excellent choice, now you can enjoy the benefits of a working exchange

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October 28, 2013, 01:23:05 AM
 #2135

I will try to make a SEPA withdrawal time forecast based on EUR volume and my experience of how it affects delays.  Here is my first attempt.

This is for SEPA only, and withdrawals > ~500 EUR.  Smaller amounts may be faster.  JPY is known to be about 2 days, and international wire is about forever.  My forecast estimate when your withdrawal will change from confirmed to pending, and you will receive it the next business day.

My forecast:
Withdrawals made on or before September 5th are out or going out today.  Withdrawals made on September 6-8 will go out today or Monday.  September 9th will take more than one day to process.  I expect it to be done on Wednesday or Thursday along with withdrawals made on the 10th.  September 11th will take at least two days as well.  The first will probably go out on Friday, i.e. in one week from now.  When withdrawals from September 11th are done, it will be a smooth ride with shortening SEPA queue until we start working on withdrawals made in the beginning of October.  I expect a huge speed bump in the first few days of October.

Please report when your withdrawals arrive, and I will use your feedback to see if I can make a better forecast.  (Or if I am completely useless at this and should find something better to do. :-)
So, have you collected enough data for a new, more realistic and not payed by Gox approach? Wink
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October 28, 2013, 07:30:03 AM
 #2136

Please report when your withdrawals arrive, and I will use your feedback to see if I can make a better forecast.  (Or if I am completely useless at this and should find something better to do. :-)
So, have you collected enough data for a new, more realistic and not payed by Gox approach? Wink
?  All the data I based my forecast on is from public sources.  MtGox has not contributed.

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.  I expected people who are doing arbitrage to withdraw as soon as possible after they had sold BTC, but it seems they are usually a day or two delayed.  The high volumes at September 9th and 11th led to a withdrawal peak from the 11th to the 13th.  This actually explains the peak at the end of August better as well.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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October 28, 2013, 07:33:20 AM
 #2137

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.

You are a MtGox sock puppet. Go fuck yourself.

The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

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sturle
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October 28, 2013, 07:43:04 AM
 #2138

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.
You are a MtGox sock puppet. Go fuck yourself.
Such an angry little boy.  Did you get bad grades in school today?

Quote
The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?
Why do you keep asking this question?  It has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

I can give you the answer for some.  If you want to buy 20k BTC at the lowest possible price, you have to transfer money to MtGox.  Trying to buy that much on any other exchange will push the price too high due to a shallower order book.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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October 28, 2013, 07:55:21 AM
 #2139

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.
You are a MtGox sock puppet. Go fuck yourself.
Such an angry little boy.  Did you get bad grades in school today?

It has no relevance to the topic of this thread  Wink

But the fact that you are a pathetic MtGox sock puppet has relevance to the topic of this thread.

Quote
Quote
The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?
Why do you keep asking this question?  It has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

I can give you the answer for some.  If you want to buy 20k BTC at the lowest possible price, you have to transfer money to MtGox.  Trying to buy that much on any other exchange will push the price too high due to a shallower order book.

You do realize that nobody has to buy in one huge chunk?
You also do realize that MtGox is by far not as big anymore (as they have been 1 year ago) - hence there are plenty of alternatives, even for high volume transactions.

So my question is still unanswered: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

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October 28, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
 #2140


So my question is still unanswered: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

They don't, that's why Gox' market share is fading away. The fiat that's still being traded over there is probably "old" money for the largest part. You do realise that you don't necessarily need to buy your coins and move out immediately, right? A lot of people probably wired fiat to Gox before the problems started, and still day-trade over there today.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/#caaaabeiba

Now please shut up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.  Roll Eyes

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
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