[Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service

[Rodyland]

I just want to say that I'm sorry for you and everyone else that has been practically scammed by Avalon.

Yeah, it sucks.  The first company that comes along and actually does a good job of providing products and service/support will absolutely clean up, I'm sure.

[1715018580]

1715018580

[1715018580]

1715018580

[1715018580]

1715018580

[nemercry]

FYI where the chips could be. No proof at all but sounds like a reasonable story.
If its true, our chips will take a lot more time to arrive than thought.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.msg2881320#msg2881320

[tarmi]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

[dani]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

Thats just what I liked to ask as well. I don't think it's fair on burnin nor does he desserve this, but this is getting into a desaster and I cannot afford this if things will stay this way. There is just no sense in buying bitburners for quite some money if your chips will suck at a difficulty that simply kills any possible ROI ever. Fuck that "goofie fukyu" 

[gravito]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

I asked the same thing via mail yesterday. I'm still waiting for an answer.

[bitcoiner49er]

FYI where the chips could be. No proof at all but sounds like a reasonable story.
If its true, our chips will take a lot more time to arrive than thought.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.msg2881320#msg2881320

BS 

IF.. if it's true; then Yifu Trollol should have amended his "NO BS" policy on the chip order page to include the extra time it would take to get chips made. Unless you believe someone talented enough to design an ASIC chip for SHA-256 and wanting to produce his own brand tablet can't compute "X" number of chips ordered * TSMC production = "Y" time for delivery.

[Bitcoinorama]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

I asked the same thing via mail yesterday. I'm still waiting for an answer.

I'm going to be honest, I think you'll have to share the burden of Burnin's financial loss. He didn't deserve this, and you and he all thought it was a sure bet, no one forced you to buy the chips and you all chomped at the bit to have someone create the products around them. I don't see why he should be out into financial difficulty or bankruptcy because of Bitsyncom's behaviour and lack of integrity. Burnin's has been Stella and transparent the entire way. If it was a Credit Card payment the issuing bank would have insured the loss, but to ask for him to find the money to repay everyone in BTC, which would have been used to pay for inventory and already depleted is not fair. Certainly he could give a partial refund covering the remainder of BTC once his costs and time have been taken...

[dani]

FYI where the chips could be. No proof at all but sounds like a reasonable story.
If its true, our chips will take a lot more time to arrive than thought.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.msg2881320#msg2881320

BS 

IF.. if it's true; then Yifu Trollol should have amended his "NO BS" policy on the chip order page to include the extra time it would take to get chips made. Unless you believe someone talented enough to design an ASIC chip for SHA-256 and wanting to produce his own brand tablet can't compute "X" number of chips ordered * TSMC production = "Y" time for delivery.

we're getting a little offtopic, but if you believe no more chips were received because.. yeah, why? Heres why I think no more chips were received: ordering was going pretty well, before or right in that process a big investor came across and told yifu "hey man, how about 14/X million dollar?" and yifu is like "Yeah, go ahead and order some chips" but he insist "no, that way I would need to wait before anyone else gets his/her chips, thats too long, put me in front or somehwhere at the top" - we can't do that, I'm all ethical. "Ok, I'll take my 14/X million dollar elsewhere" - okay, wait a minute, I was joking, you know they call me goofie fukyu? Trolled.

[minerpumpkin]

I believe a lot of the effort and money invested in the development may be re-used for Bitfury chips, am I right?

[whisper]

Lol why so rude... Do u thing only u make investment? All bitcoin biz is a big risk for a players with big iron balls. U must to invest as much as u ready to lost!

[tarmi]

Lol why so rude... Do u thing only u make investment? All bitcoin biz is a big risk for a players with big iron balls. U must to invest as much as u ready to lost!

No, no. You got it wrong. That was not an investment. I paid for a product in advance. The moment avalon didnt ship what was agreed my money became an investment.

The thing is that I dont want to invest. I would rather:

A: get my product on time
B: get my money back
C: make new agreement
D: call da police

[Bitcoinorama]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

I asked the same thing via mail yesterday. I'm still waiting for an answer.

I'm going to be honest, I think you'll have to share the burden of Burnin's financial loss. He didn't deserve this, and you and he all thought it was a sure bet, no one forced you to buy the chips and you all chomped at the bit to have someone create the products around them. I don't see why he should be out into financial difficulty or bankruptcy because of Bitsyncom's behaviour and lack of integrity. Burnin's has been Stella and transparent the entire way. If it was a Credit Card payment the issuing bank would have insured the loss, but to ask for him to find the money to repay everyone in BTC, which would have been used to pay for inventory and already depleted is not fair. Certainly he could give a partial refund covering the remainder of BTC once his costs and time have been taken...

I admire your honesty, but who da.fak are you to talk about burnins financial loss?

I paid in advance for 700 chips and got fukd by Yifu the man, and paid for 30 boards, again in advance. The way.i see it: no chips = no preordered boards = no financial loss for burnin.

30 boards = 3500 €

Ok I'm just taking a logical standpoint. Burnin' has been the textbook professional with respect to project progression and updates, regularly keeping all those involved with him upto speed.

He had to take payment in advance so he could quit what he was doing before, afford to live and pay for all the inventory required to design, develop, test and manufacture all the boards and associated components ahead of the proposed chip delivery. He's had to pay in advance for the labour involved and a sizeable order to be taken seriously by his board fabricators. He now has those items in stock. You asked, he's done his part, it' involved your cash and everyone else that put him upto it.

You all, Burnin' and yourself included thought it was a great idea. What could go wrong? The last people in the supply chain that anyone thought would intentionally mislead and refuse to acknowledge anyone was Yifu and Zhang. This is not Burnin's fault and I see no other choice than for your to take responsibility for some of your own risk if you chose this path and a payment method that's not covered by consumer protection and insured by a credit card issuer. I'm all for Bitcoin, obviously I wouldn't be here otherwise, but there's areas in which I would never use Bitcoin. Pre-ordering is definitely one, and payment protection is precisely for security in buying products and/or services that are delivered in future, i.e. travel, holidays, etc. This is not Burnin's fault and it's as much your risk as his. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you have to take responsibility for your own actions and not try and dump the blame on someone else...

[turtle83]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

I asked the same thing via mail yesterday. I'm still waiting for an answer.

I'm going to be honest, I think you'll have to share the burden of Burnin's financial loss. He didn't deserve this, and you and he all thought it was a sure bet, no one forced you to buy the chips and you all chomped at the bit to have someone create the products around them. I don't see why he should be out into financial difficulty or bankruptcy because of Bitsyncom's behaviour and lack of integrity. Burnin's has been Stella and transparent the entire way. If it was a Credit Card payment the issuing bank would have insured the loss, but to ask for him to find the money to repay everyone in BTC, which would have been used to pay for inventory and already depleted is not fair. Certainly he could give a partial refund covering the remainder of BTC once his costs and time have been taken...

I admire your honesty, but who da.fak are you to talk about burnins financial loss?

I paid in advance for 700 chips and got fukd by Yifu the man, and paid for 30 boards, again in advance. The way.i see it: no chips = no preordered boards = no financial loss for burnin.

30 boards = 3500 €

Ok I'm just taking a logical standpoint. Burnin' has been the textbook professional with respect to project progression and updates, regularly keeping all those involved with him upto speed.

He had to take payment in advance so he could quit what he was doing before, afford to live and pay for all the inventory required to design, develop, test and manufacture all the boards and associated components ahead of the proposed chip delivery. He's had to pay in advance for the labour involved and a sizeable order to be taken seriously by his board fabricators. He now has those items in stock. You asked, he's done his part, it' involved your cash and everyone else that put him upto it.

You all, Burnin' and yourself included thought it was a great idea. What could go wrong? The last people in the supply chain that anyone thought would intentionally mislead and refuse to acknowledge anyone was Yifu and Zhang. This is not Burnin's fault and I see no other choice than for your to take responsibility for some of your own risk if you chose this path and a payment method that's not covered by consumer protection and insured by a credit card issuer. I'm all for Bitcoin, obviously I wouldn't be here otherwise, but there's areas I'm which would never use Bitcoin for pre-ordering, and payment protection is just that. This is not Burnin's fault and it's as much your risk as his. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you have to take responsibility for your own actions and not try and dump the blame on someone else...

+1 agree

I paid burnin to build boards out of ASIC chips that im supposed to send him. If (for whatever reason) I cant send him the chips, then its me in violation ... not Burnin. He may have spent most of that money with securing components and equipments for speedy fab which we expect from him. In fact burnin can, if he wants, ask for penalty cause now his entire scheduling is messed up cause of my failure to provide him the chips.... but he wont do that since hes a nice guy.

[tarmi]

Great work burnin. One question for you.

I paid in advance for more then 30 boards. If my avalon chips dont show up really soon, I will have to ask for a full refund from you.

What is your refund policy?

I asked the same thing via mail yesterday. I'm still waiting for an answer.

I'm going to be honest, I think you'll have to share the burden of Burnin's financial loss. He didn't deserve this, and you and he all thought it was a sure bet, no one forced you to buy the chips and you all chomped at the bit to have someone create the products around them. I don't see why he should be out into financial difficulty or bankruptcy because of Bitsyncom's behaviour and lack of integrity. Burnin's has been Stella and transparent the entire way. If it was a Credit Card payment the issuing bank would have insured the loss, but to ask for him to find the money to repay everyone in BTC, which would have been used to pay for inventory and already depleted is not fair. Certainly he could give a partial refund covering the remainder of BTC once his costs and time have been taken...

I admire your honesty, but who da.fak are you to talk about burnins financial loss?

I paid in advance for 700 chips and got fukd by Yifu the man, and paid for 30 boards, again in advance. The way.i see it: no chips = no preordered boards = no financial loss for burnin.

30 boards = 3500 €

Ok I'm just taking a logical standpoint. Burnin' has been the textbook professional with respect to project progression and updates, regularly keeping all those involved with him upto speed.

He had to take payment in advance so he could quit what he was doing before, afford to live and pay for all the inventory required to design, develop, test and manufacture all the boards and associated components ahead of the proposed chip delivery. He's had to pay in advance for the labour involved and a sizeable order to be taken seriously by his board fabricators. He now has those items in stock. You asked, he's done his part, it' involved your cash and everyone else that put him upto it.

You all, Burnin' and yourself included thought it was a great idea. What could go wrong? The last people in the supply chain that anyone thought would intentionally mislead and refuse to acknowledge anyone was Yifu and Zhang. This is not Burnin's fault and I see no other choice than for your to take responsibility for some of your own risk if you chose this path and a payment method that's not covered by consumer protection and insured by a credit card issuer. I'm all for Bitcoin, obviously I wouldn't be here otherwise, but there's areas in which I would never use Bitcoin. Pre-ordering is definitely one, and payment protection is precisely for security in buying products and/or services that are delivered in future, i.e. travel, holidays, etc. This is not Burnin's fault and it's as much your risk as his. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you have to take responsibility for your own actions and not try and dump the blame on someone else...

Your premise is false. Burnin wasnt asked to do anything, he was offering his skills and service for the assembly of th boards with avalon chips.

No chips = no assembly business for burnin. Sorry thats th way it is.

Burnin did a great ob, I agree on that.

[maxmint]

I paid burnin to build boards out of ASIC chips that im supposed to send him. If (for whatever reason) I cant send him the chips, then its me in violation ... not Burnin. He may have spent most of that money with securing components and equipments for speedy fab which we expect from him. In fact burnin can, if he wants, ask for penalty cause now his entire scheduling is messed up cause of my failure to provide him the chips.... but he wont do that since hes a nice guy.

Totally right. Everyone who ordered from burnin is responsible for providing Avalon chips. Burnin is only selling boards, so if we fail to deliver our own chips then it's just bad luck for us.
Take a look at burnin's order pages, there's a statement in bold letters:

Warning: You need to supply the required amount of Avalon Asic chips yourself.

I can imagine that burnin may be willing to give refunds as an act of kindness, if this is financially possible for him. But I don't see any reason that he is bound to refund anyone.

[Bitcoinorama]

I paid burnin to build boards out of ASIC chips that im supposed to send him. If (for whatever reason) I cant send him the chips, then its me in violation ... not Burnin. He may have spent most of that money with securing components and equipments for speedy fab which we expect from him. In fact burnin can, if he wants, ask for penalty cause now his entire scheduling is messed up cause of my failure to provide him the chips.... but he wont do that since hes a nice guy.

Totally right. Everyone who ordered from burnin is responsible for providing Avalon chips. Burnin is only selling boards, so if we fail to deliver our own chips than it's just bad luck for us.
Take a look at burnin's order pages, there's a statement in bold letters:

Warning: You need to supply the required amount of Avalon Asic chips yourself.

I can imagine that burnin may be willing to give refunds as an act of kindness, if this is financially possible for him. But I don't see any reason that he is bound to refund anyone.

All I'm saying is it clearly won't be financially possible to give complete refunds as understandably monies have been used to fund the project and acquire equipment and fabricate thus far.

Tarmi stamping his feet demanding a full refund won't get one and needs to acknowledge his responsibility in assuming risk knowing full well how this was being financed and what was at stake.

If this was payment by by credit card, your issuing bank insures you and hedges risk against the interest and transaction fees they charge for using their products to make payment. That comes from their own pool of funds, not the merchant. Sure they would try and claw back what they could, but if the merchant provides proof that funds were used fairly and correctly for the design, development and manufacture and thus already spent, the remaining balance the issuing bank swallows.

This is not the case here, the buyers have chosen to assume the risk. This was never hidden, just people do neither inform themselves, nor acknowledge responsibility and their part in the process. They just make irrational purchases and investments...

[CumpsD]

Might be better to all try to get Yufi to deliver the ships

[driksson]

Might be better to all try to get Yufi to deliver the ships

I agree there..

Also, burnin never said that you need to prepay before your chips arrive.
When you pay your order, your chips will be mounted, in place of order and when your chips arrive.

[Bitcoinorama]

Might be better to all try to get Yufi to deliver the ships

Agreed. Or why not Zhang, or any or the former members of Bitsyncom, before they broke-up? What about that guy, the former team member that posted the pictures of that massive chip order in multiple boxes equating to millions of chips?!

One guy may have the key to the wallet, but the others all know the date of order, expected delivery, and the likely whereabouts of the chips.

Zhang, more than likely knows the whereabouts of Yifu as well. It's not like they don't speak!

[-Redacted-]

I think everyone should stop trying to speak for Burnin - he's pretty level headed and capable of deciding things for himself.

it's not unlikely that Yifu took some big bucks to deliver chips and decided to stiff the little buyers in favor of the big-bucks buyers - knowing full well that he could destroy some up and coming competitors at the same time and knowing that there isn't the slightest thing the little guys can do about it.   I think he took some business lessons from Josh here - "if you make them wait long enough, they'll be greatful if they get anything at all."