[Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service

[itod]

All I can say is that I hope indeed I am wrong about BitFury and what I heard of their 1BTC price per chip

AFAIK, the 1BTC per chip is for sample chips. Still a very high price to pay, sample chips should be priced at a level that will stimulate people like Burnin to develop a board and order reals of chips. That's where the real profit is for Bitfury.

I highly doubt that 1BTC price for sample chips applies to Burnin, he probably got his sample chips for free or very low cost. That price is for others who want to play electronic geniuses, not for someone who can jump-start Bitfury's chip selling. So Kano's assumption stays, they'll probably sell their chips at the very edge of the customer profitability margin, not based on the development & production costs like other regular electronic businesses. Lot's of people who are in the industry claim ASICs manufacturing price is in the range of a dollar to few dollars depending on the quantity.

[lemonte]

True, but as a community we should be making sure assemblers like Burnin are looked after. Not only as a thank you for the amount of work he's done, but also from the point of view that if assemblers lose money there is no incentive to do it, meaning they won't, thus killing the DIY boards market completely.

I hate to break it to you, but him developing and building a board, is not charity. Customers paid, so it is just regular old business. There is absolutely no need to 'look after' the person you made a business deal with.

As much as I sympathise with the board builders, burnin took his own risk in developing a board for Avalon chips, and taking pre-orders dependant on pre-ordered hardware. It is not right that all this risk is fully offloaded to his customer base, and I'm quite sure what he offers is unlawful in the EU. You can't deliver nothing and still take a part of the money for yourself (be it in fiat or electrical components). I am quite (90%) sure that falls under the label entrepreneurial risk, at least here in the EU.

You are missing the point I am making here mate, I am not suggesting that this is a charity, but if assemblers start losing money, there is no incentive to do it anymore and we have to go down the route of buying plug and play devices at a much higher cost.

I am more than happy to get a refund on my chips and 70% back on the actual assembled PCB price if it means I can then buy new (Non Avalon) chips and have assembled further down the line.

[Rodyland]

I don't understand how anyone can say burnin owes them anything.  You have contracted him to create for you a board and mount on it chips that you provided.

This week, next week, or in 6 months time, I'm sure he'd be happy to put your chips on a board and mail it to you.

Anything beyond that, refunds partial or full, or credit towards future goods yet to be designed, is done at burnin's discretion and he is under no obligation, as far as I'm concerned.

[mitak64]

@burnin

Order #887
Could you please send my board already?
I won't be sending you chips, just need the board asap.
Thanks

[burnin]

First of all of you should wait and see if the group buys can get a refund from avalon.
If not mining with the board is the better option to get a large portion of the investment back.

True but I think than he has to work out a good solution for both - him & clients. This "offer" is just a business for him not the community.
European business have to fullfill a lot of laws when selling to private clients. The TOS are illegal in Germany as I know (but I am now lawer) as consumers are protected hard - this was no B2B business at all.

Quote §312d BGB

Code:

(4) Das Widerrufsrecht besteht, soweit nicht ein anderes bestimmt ist, nicht bei Fernabsatzverträgen
	1. 	zur Lieferung von Waren, die nach Kundenspezifikation angefertigt werden oder eindeutig auf die persönlichen Bedürfnisse zugeschnitten sind oder die auf Grund ihrer Beschaffenheit nicht für eine Rücksendung geeignet sind oder schnell verderben können oder deren Verfalldatum überschritten würde,

For everyone that seeks trouble:
You ordered a board, you'll get a board.
if you fail to provide Avalon chips it will be missing those, have fun with it.

[2weiX]

First of all of you should wait and see if the group buys can get a refund from avalon.
If not mining with the board is the better option to get a large portion of the investment back.

True but I think than he has to work out a good solution for both - him & clients. This "offer" is just a business for him not the community.
European business have to fullfill a lot of laws when selling to private clients. The TOS are illegal in Germany as I know (but I am now lawer) as consumers are protected hard - this was no B2B business at all.

Quote §312d BGB

Code:

(4) Das Widerrufsrecht besteht, soweit nicht ein anderes bestimmt ist, nicht bei Fernabsatzverträgen
	1. 	zur Lieferung von Waren, die nach Kundenspezifikation angefertigt werden oder eindeutig auf die persönlichen Bedürfnisse zugeschnitten sind oder die auf Grund ihrer Beschaffenheit nicht für eine Rücksendung geeignet sind oder schnell verderben können oder deren Verfalldatum überschritten würde,

For everyone that seeks trouble:
You ordered a board, you'll get a board.
if you fail to provide Avalon chips it will be empty, have fun with it.

Cool with that.
Can you please open a "burnin update thread" or something where once a day, you post

- what batches have arrived
- what order numbers have been filfilled

...kinda like BFL, but without the bullshit?

[-Redacted-]

For everyone that seeks trouble:
You ordered a board, you'll get a board.
if you fail to provide Avalon chips it will be missing those, have fun with it.

Seems absolutely fair to me.  Thanks Burnin.  Still looking forward to running my BitBurners!!

[iikun]

True, but as a community we should be making sure assemblers like Burnin are looked after. Not only as a thank you for the amount of work he's done, but also from the point of view that if assemblers lose money there is no incentive to do it, meaning they won't, thus killing the DIY boards market completely.

I hate to break it to you, but him developing and building a board, is not charity. Customers paid, so it is just regular old business. There is absolutely no need to 'look after' the person you made a business deal with.

As much as I sympathise with the board builders, burnin took his own risk in developing a board for Avalon chips, and taking pre-orders dependant on pre-ordered hardware. It is not right that all this risk is fully offloaded to his customer base, and I'm quite sure what he offers is unlawful in the EU. You can't deliver nothing and still take a part of the money for yourself (be it in fiat or electrical components). I am quite (90%) sure that falls under the label entrepreneurial risk, at least here in the EU.

to get technical he could in fact sue YOU as you implicitly agreed to send him Avalon chips so that he can complete your boards. By not sending the chips you have broken the agreement/contract & thus probably have little legal recourse.

Notwithstanding this point, I maintain that it is in everyone's best interest to work something out as amicably as possible & the level of venom on this thread is getting out of hand.
The first thing to do is approach Avalon officially (as Zefir says he has now done) and see what they are willing to do to make this right. Flaming group buy organizers and board makers only encourages infighting which will get us collectively nowhere. First things first.

What bullshit - he isn`t paying me for that business & you have no idea from EU laws I think. This was NO B2B business at all - private clients are protected here, specially in Germany it`s double hard.
I am for sure Paypal too see that different like you from buyers view. They give buyers protection and if someone can steal some BTC via Paypal (getting refund after transaction) then this should be not that point of this deal at all.

Well, no doubt unlike you I actually majored in fair trade law & also studied contract law. So no, it's not bullshit. Buyer protection doesn't help you here because you failed to send chips. It's not a "hey, I changed my mind so give me a refund after you already made it" miracle refund clause, it is designed to protect people who received a product which was not fit for the purpose intended. In this case, it does what it's supposed to perfectly when you back up your end by supplying the chips.

All you can possibly expect to get back is (and this is best case scenario)
1. a massive legal bill
2. a small refund for labour as Burnin wasn't required to actually put chips on the boards.
3. a bunch of PCBs or whatever you actually ordered but w/out chips.

because:
You asked him to do a job. He has done that job. You cannot ask for a refund after that job has been done. He was unable to place chips on that board due to you not sending chips. You are entitled to exactly what Burnin himself wrote here:

For everyone that seeks trouble:
You ordered a board, you'll get a board.
if you fail to provide Avalon chips it will be missing those, have fun with it.

If I were you though, I'd calm down. Stress kills & we have no idea what Bitsyncom will even offer us in the way of restitution. That is the first step.

[RoadStress]

Will someone help me power my BitBurner boards?

http://s22.postimg.org/wo95zzom9/SAM_1566_Copy.jpg

What cables should i use? Should i use 4 red VGA cables and 4 SATA cables? I only plan to power a single board per cable.

Thank you.

Edit: Also how do i power on my boards and PSU?

[robix]

If I were you though, I'd calm down. Stress kills & we have no idea what Bitsyncom will even offer us in the way of restitution. That is the first step.

+1

[BenTuras]

Will someone help me power my BitBurner boards?

http://s22.postimg.org/wo95zzom9/SAM_1566_Copy.jpg

What cables should i use? Should i use 4 red VGA cables and 4 SATA cables? I only plan to power a single board per cable.

Thank you.

Edit: Also how do i power on my boards and PSU?

You should have a cable that goes into VGA1. On the other end is a plug that should go into a Bitburner board.
Same for VGA2, ...

[RoadStress]

Will someone help me power my BitBurner boards?

http://s22.postimg.org/wo95zzom9/SAM_1566_Copy.jpg

What cables should i use? Should i use 4 red VGA cables and 4 SATA cables? I only plan to power a single board per cable.

Thank you.

Edit: Also how do i power on my boards and PSU?

You should have a cable that goes into VGA1. On the other end is a plug that should go into a Bitburner board.
Same for VGA2, ...

Ok i got that, but how do i start the PSU and the boards? If the cable are attached to the boards and i start the PSU will the boards will start too? If not then how do i start the boards?

[Min€r]

Will someone help me power my BitBurner boards?

http://s22.postimg.org/wo95zzom9/SAM_1566_Copy.jpg

What cables should i use? Should i use 4 red VGA cables and 4 SATA cables? I only plan to power a single board per cable.

Thank you.

Edit: Also how do i power on my boards and PSU?

You should have a cable that goes into VGA1. On the other end is a plug that should go into a Bitburner board.
Same for VGA2, ...

Ok i got that, but how do i start the PSU and the boards? If the cable are attached to the boards and i start the PSU will the boards will start too? If not then how do i start the boards?

No you have to buy a bridge like this: http://www.dimastech.com/Img/Prodotti/2213/4889_zoom.jpg
 or build it manually (connect green & black wire from ATX).

[-Redacted-]

Will someone help me power my BitBurner boards?

http://s22.postimg.org/wo95zzom9/SAM_1566_Copy.jpg

What cables should i use? Should i use 4 red VGA cables and 4 SATA cables? I only plan to power a single board per cable.

Thank you.

Edit: Also how do i power on my boards and PSU?

You should have a cable that goes into VGA1. On the other end is a plug that should go into a Bitburner board.
Same for VGA2, ...

Ok i got that, but how do i start the PSU and the boards? If the cable are attached to the boards and i start the PSU will the boards will start too? If not then how do i start the boards?

Search the thread for "paperclip" or "bridge" and you should find at least two places where this has been thoroughly discussed before, with full instructions - including pictures.

[cimpex]

burnin is 100% legal! He could deliver your assembled boards (excl. avalon chips) and thats it. He even do not have to refund the costs for assembling of the avalon chips if he already paid for an assembling slot or bought machines for e.g. Everything he refunds is because he is a nice guy. Think about that!

[alfabitcoin]

burnin is 100% legal! He could deliver your assembled boards (excl. avalon chips) and thats it. He even do not have to refund the costs for assembling of the avalon chips if he already paid for an assembling slot or bought machines for e.g. Everything he refunds is because he is a nice guy. Think about that!

You have bailed out a while ago by selling your chips! You have ordered but unpaid for burnin service! I'am not arguing your statemant, but think you are hypocrit. My opinion, nothing else.

[vpereira]

the funniest thing to do is to read the first page of all those custom hardware new vendors and then jump straight to the last page. All of the posts start like "i love you,  i want to buy it now,  i wanna a baby with you" and then in the past page: "scammer, i sue you, i want answers now".. while fpgas and asic miners are hated or outdated, they are up and mining

[roy7]

Someone who wants to resell unwanted Avalon chips should just ship them all to burnin and sell them to bitburner purchasers who didn't get their chips delivered yet.

[SebastianJu]

Yes i am quite busy, but i nevertheless read customers emails daily, in more complex cases i don't reply immediately.

@tarmi
Investments in bitcoin are always high-risk and no one should invest more money then he is comfortable to lose.
I was already writing a mail to you, but it seemed better to put it out here for everyone.

So definitive answer you are looking for:
Bad news first:
I am by law not obligated to give any refunds for customer specific equipment like the bitburners as stated in my AGB (Terms of Service).

Nevertheless I value my customers, and i am nice guy.
I will (on request) refund any money that has not yet been spend on parts.
that will be about 50%.
I have to crunch some number to get the exact per board amount.

I do plan to reuse a lot of components for the bitfury design.
But some can not be reused and will be thrown away, like the PCBs for example.

For those that received a refund i could give a discount on a new bitfury order of about 70% of the not-returned funds.
But we all have to ask ourselves: is bitfury going to deliver?

Executive summary:
50% refund guaranteed.
70% money recovered when ordering a BitFury product.

This looks like it is going to get messy for everyone involved.  

Messy would be a bold understatement.

I am sure this is against German & European Laws - you have earned and can`t finally unload your whole risk to your customers at all.

I think burnin is right. Its not like buying goods, its creating something. Thats a different kind of contract. See here a question and the answer in a legal advice forum in germany (burnins location): http://www.123recht.net/Ruecktritt-vom-KaufvertragAuftrag-__f9623.html
Its german though but for english speakers google translate might help.

[SebastianJu]

All for that, I plan to put my refunded money into Bitfury chips, or maybe Cointerra if anyone ends up doing a group buy. I'd happily let Burnin keep my money as credit until a time arrives where he can produce boards for those chips.

You really want to invest in the next preorder? oO You already know the difficulty isnt only rising exponentially, the prozentual rise is rising exponentially too... i await that no preorders break even in the next months. Except maybe companies mining with own asics they can create for cost at the foundry.