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Author Topic: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD  (Read 251026 times)
CryptoEnthusiast64
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July 19, 2017, 03:44:18 AM
 #1781

Their must be a lot of suckers in crypto because this is a straight scam coin. Where is the value? Where are the partnerships? Where is any news? This is sad.
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July 19, 2017, 04:11:20 AM
 #1782

Their must be a lot of suckers in crypto because this is a straight scam coin. Where is the value? Where are the partnerships? Where is any news? This is sad.

azmojo
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July 19, 2017, 05:13:37 AM
 #1783

Check Rialto.ai out and learn what they do. You may be impressed.
I did miss this one and I am impressed although I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out with the semi-annual profit distribution and what the price of XRL does leading up to and post-distribution.
I checked it out this morning at $.07 and didn't act. Now it is $.17...

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Josef27
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July 19, 2017, 05:55:21 AM
Last edit: July 19, 2017, 06:29:16 AM by Josef27
 #1784

What does it matter what the market cap is reported at? Why the obsession?

Because marketcap is price.

Step 1. Imagine you were offered a 1000th share in a new Audi A3 for 8$. What would you do ?....you'd have no clue until you multiplied 8 x 1000 to determine what the seller valued their vehicle at, in this case $8000. The book value of an Audi A3 is $40k, so you'd conclude the deal was good and make the purchase.

Step 2. Now imagine there were actually 5000 shares and unknown to you the balance of 4000 were being sold to other buyers "under the counter". What would happen when this information became widely available ?

1. The value of the car would stay the same (Book value still = $40k)
2. The market (i.e. "you") would immediately revalue your unit share down by 80% to account for the newly reported unit liquidity

That's the recipe by which Veritaseum has gained such a high Token to Coin ratio at the moment.

Now consider the Audi A3 example in terms of "marketcaps" (i.e. we see the value of the car as the 'marketcap' of the issued shares. Never mind whether they're circulating or not, it's the 'issued' shares that we're interested in).

Go back to step 1. When you originally were offered the price of 8$ per share, if you now use the correct unit supply factor to calculate the price of the Audi A3 you'll arrive at the full $40k. (Your $8 unit price x 5000). You compare that to a VW Gold at $30k and decide it's a bad deal.

What swung your decision in each case was the marketcap of your asset (=price of the car). That's the only handle you had in each case on the value of what you were being offered. You calculated that in the first case you were being offered an asset at below market price, in the second case you were being offered an asset above market price.

This is why Ethereum blockchain issuers do this trick of "holding back" tokens. It's nothing to do with garnering network effect and everything to do with passing risk from the issuer to the investor because the issuer is left holding all the capital while the investor is left holding bags of worthless tokens that took the issuer about 2 minutes to create.

In a classic equity exchange this doesn't happen, because your invested capital is held by the company in which you own shares, so your shares are worth something even if the entrepreneurial idea is crap. In token investments however you don't get squat of the issuers equity, just a bunch of tokens backed by a few lines of code.

P.S. Mined coins are a whole different case which is why I made a distinction between "coins" and "tokens" in a previous post. With mined coins, issuance is decentralised and an ICO entity cannot determine the distribution.


Here's a thought, how much would this VERI  rental broker/ software token be worth, if you received a small percentage of every multi-million dollar transaction that rented through it? Considering Veri's target clients are high net worth individuals , institutional clients, and sovereign governments. What would a lifetime of transactions be worth? Generational transactions be worth ? Maybe each transaction  nets 30k,100k or maybe 300k? per transaction, who knows ? Now add in first to market, first with a patent/ pending. Basically the 800lb gorilla with a patent, corner the market kind of thing. How many transactions can one token do in a lifetime? Would you value this like a business? 4 to 5 X net income or since it's so passive and massive 100x ? Your tokens value can be represented  as a counter balance to the current Wallstreet greed, monoply,  over priced fees, red tape and corruption. Your token is a vacuum sucking all the bloat out of this system and also creating markets world wide in areas not served.  You will receive  fair compensation for doing so... How much is that ?  I don't think you could buy them in this scenario to be honest. Who would part with them?   Remember Veri is Skynet to Wallstreet  and SKYNET (VERI) is going world wide!
azmojo
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July 19, 2017, 06:04:22 AM
 #1785

What does it matter what the market cap is reported at? Why the obsession?

Because marketcap is price.
Step 1. Imagine you were offered a 1000th share in a new Audi A3 for 8$. What would you do ?....you'd have no clue until you multiplied 8 x 1000 to determine what the seller valued their vehicle at, in this case $8000. The book value of an Audi A3 is $40k, so you'd conclude the deal was good and make the purchase.
That's a very simple case and works fine for physical goods with well established valued. Entirely different with stocks and cryptos and currencies.

Quote
Step 2. Now imagine there were actually 5000 shares and unknown to you the balance of 4000 were being sold to other buyers "under the counter". What would happen when this information became widely available ?

1. The value of the car would stay the same (Book value still = $40k)
2. The market (i.e. "you") would immediately revalue your unit share down by 80% to account for the newly reported unit liquidity
The supply of VERI tokens and their status is not a secret. Why is this an issue? Calculate the value however you want.

Quote
That's the recipe by which Veritaseum has gained such a high Token to Coin ratio at the moment.
How do you know how VERI owners, and more importantly, recent purchasers of VERI came to their decision/valuation? They have access to the same knowledge as all of us.

Quote
What swung your decision in each case was the marketcap of your asset (=price of the car). That's the only handle you had in each case on the value of what you were being offered. You calculated that in the first case you were being offered an asset at below market price, in the second case you were being offered an asset above market price.
Every investor values things differently. Even your car example, some investors might value it at $38k, others at $42k, just ask any car dealer. What leads investors to purchase shares of stock every day is the determination that a particular stock is undervalued by the market and thus worth buying. Just because VERI buyers see something you don't doesn't mean they are wrong. I apparently value the "keys to the Internet" much higher than you do. Time will determine if I'm right.

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This is why Ethereum blockchain issuers do this trick of "holding back" tokens. It's nothing to do with garnering network effect and everything to do with passing risk from the issuer to the investor because the issuer is left holding all the capital while the investor is left holding bags of worthless tokens that took the issuer about 2 minutes to create.
And your point is ? If you don't like the offering structure, don't participate. Hundreds of thousands of ICO participants feel differently than you. If they didn't, these ICOs wouldn't be successful. Again, it doesn't make them wrong or you right, but you can't deny the success of these ICOs. You can call the investors stupid for seeing things differently than you do, but so far most of them are making out really well.

Do you advocate this strongly against Tesla stock, the company that has never really made any profit, trying to save those investors from themselves too? Are you short Maybe people invest in Tesla or VERI because they see value where others like you don't. Sometimes maybe it makes sense (and tons of money) to use a valuation scheme other than the academic version you are so familiar with. I don't see the value in Tesla stock so I am not a buyer any time soon, but plenty of people disagree with me.

Quote
In a classic equity exchange this doesn't happen, because your invested capital is held by the company in which you own shares, so your shares are worth something even if the entrepreneurial idea is crap. In token investments however you don't get squat of the issuers equity, just a bunch of tokens backed by a few lines of code.
Equity in a crappy company isn't going to be worth much either.
Perhaps crypto currencies aren't the right investment for you. Why are you here? Some personal goal to save VERI forum readers from making what you believe to be a bad decision?

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July 19, 2017, 06:19:21 AM
 #1786

I did miss this one and I am impressed although I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out with the semi-annual profit distribution and what the price of XRL does leading up to and post-distribution.
I checked it out this morning at $.07 and didn't act. Now it is $.17...

My Discounted Cash Flow analysis says the fair price is conservatively around $20+ per token and optimistically around $30+ per token, with 4% long-term growth, around 20% market share in a multi-billion industry as a market maker, around 0.5% profit per arbitrage/market-making trade, and a whopping 24% discount rate.
I am using 24% discount rate to figure out what the price I would get with the kind of return that beats the stock market, beats the bond market, and beats top hedge fund performance.
At the moment Rialto.ai is still very much below most people's radar, but I suspect once it starts distributing its profit 6 months from now and people finally come to see it as a real deal, then price should take off.
Nevertheless, this is just my personal opinion and is not a financial advice.

I use the DCF calculator here @ buffettsbooks.com/howtoinvestinstocks/course3/intrinsic-value-formula.html
And no, I don't own/run the website. I just use it for convenience.


     
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azmojo
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July 19, 2017, 07:27:15 AM
 #1787

I did miss this one and I am impressed although I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out with the semi-annual profit distribution and what the price of XRL does leading up to and post-distribution.
I checked it out this morning at $.07 and didn't act. Now it is $.17...

My Discounted Cash Flow analysis says the fair price is conservatively around $20+ per token and optimistically around $30+ per token, with 4% long-term growth, around 20% market share in a multi-billion industry as a market maker, around 0.5% profit per arbitrage/market-making trade, and a whopping 24% discount rate.
I am using 24% discount rate to figure out what the price I would get with the kind of return that beats the stock market, beats the bond market, and beats top hedge fund performance.
At the moment Rialto.ai is still very much below most people's radar, but I suspect once it starts distributing its profit 6 months from now and people finally come to see it as a real deal, then price should take off.
Nevertheless, this is just my personal opinion and is not a financial advice.

I use the DCF calculator here @ buffettsbooks.com/howtoinvestinstocks/course3/intrinsic-value-formula.html
And no, I don't own/run the website. I just use it for convenience.
Look into the MASS ICO also not on the webbot's list. This one has pretty good potential as well and is still in pre-sale. http://mass.cloud/

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July 19, 2017, 09:32:45 AM
Last edit: July 19, 2017, 10:42:39 AM by Dorky
 #1788

Look into the MASS ICO also not on the webbot's list. This one has pretty good potential as well and is still in pre-sale. http://mass.cloud/

Alright, I am going to look into it and later tell you what I think.

Edit:
Done reading.
If I understand correctly, MASS is a project that collect contributions into a fund to be invested into 3rd-party cryptocurrencies that involve masternodes, staking and do payout reward from mining.
The advantages is I don't need to invest a huge amount of money to own a masternode, don't need to buy my own hardware, don't need to manage my own security, etc because all these are done by MASS, and I will collect masternode reward, mining reward, etc from these 3rd-party cryptocurrencies.

My most important question (above everything else) to MASS would be: How large (in dollar term) would such market potential be that MASS token holders stand to receive every year, in rough estimation?


     
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July 19, 2017, 12:47:59 PM
 #1789

I just found out (thru email) that Rialto.ai now has bitcointalk topic (@ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2033346.new#new) and slack channel.
And this is actually after the "ICO" ended.
Very very low profile, and the "ICO" was very professionally done all the way to token distribution.


     
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July 19, 2017, 01:49:01 PM
 #1790

I just found out (thru email) that Rialto.ai now has bitcointalk topic (@ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2033346.new#new) and slack channel.
And this is actually after the "ICO" ended.
Very very low profile, and the "ICO" was very professionally done all the way to token distribution.
One of the services that were discussed early on by Veritaseum was that contracts or DAO's would be created to invest and consume the research results. So when Reggie releases an analysis of a token, there will be a DAO that will exercise a position in that market; thus providing a consumer of the research that is produced and updated.
These alternate markets are exactly what hedgefunds and HNW individuals are looking for since there is almost no yield in anything other than equity positions. Veritaseum is the missing piece that they need to provide demonstrable yield. Risk is not a factor, nor is the volatility. If they can build a portfolio that has 1% exposure to cryptomarket, that is line item on the prospectus for the fund. Investors look at that and say well I've heard about bitcoin or ethereum, and here I have 1% exposure. The name of the game is diversification, you don't want all your money in buggy whip manufacturers if the automobile if going render them useless! At this time the only option is the GBTC OTC trust, and it is extremely illiquid as they are no longer issuing shares. Hedgefund managers would use veritaseum services, as an alternative. The first iteration of the P2P trading platform allowed you to easily swap exposure to BTC and USD. Easily taking a long or short position. My understanding is that currently shorting GBTC has a 80% cost which means that even if it it headed lower you could lose money with a short due to the carrying charges.
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July 19, 2017, 03:02:35 PM
 #1791

One of the services that were discussed early on by Veritaseum was that contracts or DAO's would be created to invest and consume the research results. So when Reggie releases an analysis of a token, there will be a DAO that will exercise a position in that market; thus providing a consumer of the research that is produced and updated.
These alternate markets are exactly what hedgefunds and HNW individuals are looking for since there is almost no yield in anything other than equity positions. Veritaseum is the missing piece that they need to provide demonstrable yield. Risk is not a factor, nor is the volatility. If they can build a portfolio that has 1% exposure to cryptomarket, that is line item on the prospectus for the fund. Investors look at that and say well I've heard about bitcoin or ethereum, and here I have 1% exposure. The name of the game is diversification, you don't want all your money in buggy whip manufacturers if the automobile if going render them useless! At this time the only option is the GBTC OTC trust, and it is extremely illiquid as they are no longer issuing shares. Hedgefund managers would use veritaseum services, as an alternative. The first iteration of the P2P trading platform allowed you to easily swap exposure to BTC and USD. Easily taking a long or short position. My understanding is that currently shorting GBTC has a 80% cost which means that even if it it headed lower you could lose money with a short due to the carrying charges.

What the whack are you talking about?

Rialto.ai isn't a competitor of Veritaseum; they don't provide the same/similar type of solution.


     
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July 19, 2017, 03:14:40 PM
 #1792

https://etherscan.io/token/0x8f3470A7388c05eE4e7AF3d01D8C722b0FF52374#balances

one holds 98%.
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July 19, 2017, 03:48:03 PM
 #1793

Congratulations. You are quite late to this game. This topic has been covered extensively already.

This address https://etherscan.io/address/0x44cab6f6dc7045fd4acd1d0f3d09fc7a83004bd3 created this contract: https://etherscan.io/address/0x599a4b8188676224d4c9b393b947e332b60b15e3 the crowdsale address.

https://etherscan.io/address/0x44cab6f6dc7045fd4acd1d0f3d09fc7a83004bd3 created the Token contract:
The address of the Veritaseum Token is at: https://etherscan.io/address/0x8f3470a7388c05ee4e7af3d01d8c722b0ff52374 this is what you use to add your VERI in your ERC20 wallet!

The original crowdsale was explained here. https://blog.veritaseum.com/buy-veritas-tokens

The https://etherscan.io/address/0x82c48875C17EE5812f909a9d75C0F64f7A8719FE shows the remaining reserve tokens, that are not part of the outstanding float. I would say this is the cold-wallet for VERI and when large funds are sold from it then we can expect institutional investors to be announced. (it is also where you will see UltraCoin to VERI conversion occur)

There are 98% of tokens in reserve, this has been discussed repeatedly in this thread and Reggie on the record as saying repeatedly the VERI software will be sold to large institutional investors, who will exchange them for the Veritaseum services. Since the tokens are intended for purchasing Veritaseum services, it is not expected that they will be available on exchanges.
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July 19, 2017, 06:44:53 PM
 #1794

It's best just to ignore these people. They're here too because they think they know what they're doing and if you give them enough time they'll lose everything and wander away with their tail between their legs. When they start talking about things that they don't know what they're talking about just ignore them have them on their little head give them some Jell-O and put them back to bed.
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July 19, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
 #1795

Congratulations. You are quite late to this game. This topic has been covered extensively already.

This address https://etherscan.io/address/0x44cab6f6dc7045fd4acd1d0f3d09fc7a83004bd3 created this contract: https://etherscan.io/address/0x599a4b8188676224d4c9b393b947e332b60b15e3 the crowdsale address.

https://etherscan.io/address/0x44cab6f6dc7045fd4acd1d0f3d09fc7a83004bd3 created the Token contract:
The address of the Veritaseum Token is at: https://etherscan.io/address/0x8f3470a7388c05ee4e7af3d01d8c722b0ff52374 this is what you use to add your VERI in your ERC20 wallet!

The original crowdsale was explained here. https://blog.veritaseum.com/buy-veritas-tokens

The https://etherscan.io/address/0x82c48875C17EE5812f909a9d75C0F64f7A8719FE shows the remaining reserve tokens, that are not part of the outstanding float. I would say this is the cold-wallet for VERI and when large funds are sold from it then we can expect institutional investors to be announced. (it is also where you will see UltraCoin to VERI conversion occur)

There are 98% of tokens in reserve, this has been discussed repeatedly in this thread and Reggie on the record as saying repeatedly the VERI software will be sold to large institutional investors, who will exchange them for the Veritaseum services. Since the tokens are intended for purchasing Veritaseum services, it is not expected that they will be available on exchanges.

thnx for the explanation.
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July 19, 2017, 08:38:46 PM
 #1796



Someone stole ~$32M (~153k ether) from three multisig wallets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oat8e/someone_stole_32m_153k_ether_from_three_multisig/



https://twitter.com/myetherwallet

MyEtherWallet.com‏ @myetherwallet 1h1 hour ago

1 Do not panic. Panic makes things worse
2 If you use MyEtherWallet, you ARE NOT AT RISK
3 Carefully move your funds to a new account ASAP
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July 19, 2017, 08:47:02 PM
 #1797



Someone stole ~$32M (~153k ether) from three multisig wallets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oat8e/someone_stole_32m_153k_ether_from_three_multisig/



https://twitter.com/myetherwallet

MyEtherWallet.com‏ @myetherwallet 1h1 hour ago

1 Do not panic. Panic makes things worse
2 If you use MyEtherWallet, you ARE NOT AT RISK
3 Carefully move your funds to a new account ASAP

Can someone contact Veritaseum people and inform them about this hack. Is VERI ICO wallet safe?
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July 19, 2017, 09:10:13 PM
 #1798



Someone stole ~$32M (~153k ether) from three multisig wallets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oat8e/someone_stole_32m_153k_ether_from_three_multisig/



https://twitter.com/myetherwallet

MyEtherWallet.com‏ @myetherwallet 1h1 hour ago

1 Do not panic. Panic makes things worse
2 If you use MyEtherWallet, you ARE NOT AT RISK
3 Carefully move your funds to a new account ASAP
why move ur funds to a new account?
davs
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July 19, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
 #1799



Someone stole ~$32M (~153k ether) from three multisig wallets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oat8e/someone_stole_32m_153k_ether_from_three_multisig/



https://twitter.com/myetherwallet

MyEtherWallet.com‏ @myetherwallet 1h1 hour ago

1 Do not panic. Panic makes things worse
2 If you use MyEtherWallet, you ARE NOT AT RISK
3 Carefully move your funds to a new account ASAP
why move ur funds to a new account?


No you don't haveve to move anything, read all tweets from myetherwallet please.
davs
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July 19, 2017, 09:15:42 PM
 #1800



Someone stole ~$32M (~153k ether) from three multisig wallets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oat8e/someone_stole_32m_153k_ether_from_three_multisig/



https://twitter.com/myetherwallet

MyEtherWallet.com‏ @myetherwallet 1h1 hour ago

1 Do not panic. Panic makes things worse
2 If you use MyEtherWallet, you ARE NOT AT RISK
3 Carefully move your funds to a new account ASAP
why move ur funds to a new account?


No you don't haveve to move anything, read all tweets from myetherwallet please.

And again: If you do not have your funds in a multisig wallet, YOU ARE NOT AT RISK.

https://twitter.com/myetherwallet/status/887751046608453632
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