ASICMiner USB group buy- orders closed, pay for extra!

[twobits]

Where?  I missed it.  If you can find that statement, I stand corrected and retract most of my complaints.

Note that 'taking orders' is not nearly the same thing as 'shipping'.  Obviously shipping cannot happen until the items are done.  But I do expect a pipeline process where orders are shipped simultaneously with pieces being produced.  IOW, it would make little sense to get a batch of 10,000 built and tested, and only then start taking orders and shipping.

It used to be linked to in the original post, but seems that post has been edited to hell, and contains none of the original information now.  I really think people should edit things in a way that shows the edit history and not keep changing things.

I found the original post from friedcat that kicked all this off,  unfortunately he too has recently edited it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195004.msg2025318#msg2025318

The jist of it is still there, that they have a lead time and start taking orders in the auction subforum.  This group buy was an attempt to be ready for that , which has yet to happen.  Instead we are trying to bypass that, which is fair enough,but it was never posted as an option available to start with.  Now it says he can be contacted before this by group buyers.   Does not promise anything, nor say they will be ready before the initial estimate.



We need a way to show post revision on this board it seems!

Not sure why you think it matters who has the money till the unit are ready to start to package.

[arklan]

pardon quietness fellas, this cold is doing a nice litle loopdey loo on my brains.

if anyone wants to cancel their order and refund it, i don't see it a problem. pm me and john.

[tvbcof]

...
Not sure why you think it matters who has the money till the unit are ready to start to package.

It's a 'golden rule' and fairness thing to me.  If I were running things I would bend over backward to provide complete transparency.

And I would certainly be running a fair and well documented delivery queue considering the time-sensitive nature of Bitcoin mining.

I don't believe that it is that hard to come up with a strategy which is fair and without favoritism or kickbacks.  Nor to I believe that should be all the onerous to communicate it and prove that it is being followed.

How Bitfountain handles this will be very indicative about whether they are noticeably separated from the likes of BFL in terms of business practices and thus what the risks are in trying to do business with them in the future.  And it is very likely that in future times they will be facing significantly more competition than they do today.

[tvbcof]

pardon quietness fellas, this cold is doing a nice litle loopdey loo on my brains.

if anyone wants to cancel their order and refund it, i don't see it a problem. pm me and john.

The problem would come if the order got down below 300.  I'm a participant in this group-buy effort  and definitely don't want to screw anyone here.

At this point I would like it if you keep my order, but:

If ~friedcat has not published a clearly documented policy on ordering and shipping by May-16-2013 and received our funds, and if he has not put us in the queued appropriately given that we had our money on the table some days ago:

• If you have more than 300 order when the time comes to pay ~friedcat, do not include my order.
  
• Instead, refund me, and take any fees which are appropriate to compensate you both for your outstanding work.  I believe that anything up to .5 BTC for this would be fair but am happy to leave it to you two to make the decision based on whether there are other people who fall into the same category.
• Keep my funds until the end so that you may evaluate the fair costs when all is said and done.

I will sign a message pointing to this forum post if need be.

[BlackLilac Grant]

pardon quietness fellas, this cold is doing a nice litle loopdey loo on my brains.

if anyone wants to cancel their order and refund it, i don't see it a problem. pm me and john.

If that happens and you need someone to buy another 2-3 units, I will take them.

Feel better. I have the exact same thing going on right now, it sucks.

[AForceNinja]

pardon quietness fellas, this cold is doing a nice litle loopdey loo on my brains.

if anyone wants to cancel their order and refund it, i don't see it a problem. pm me and john.

If that happens and you need someone to buy another 2-3 units, I will take them.

Feel better. I have the exact same thing going on right now, it sucks.

If arklan doesnt have a problem with this i wouldnt mine transfering over 3 units from my order to BlackLilac

that is after i receive BTC from him

[arklan]

pardon quietness fellas, this cold is doing a nice litle loopdey loo on my brains.

if anyone wants to cancel their order and refund it, i don't see it a problem. pm me and john.

If that happens and you need someone to buy another 2-3 units, I will take them.

Feel better. I have the exact same thing going on right now, it sucks.

If arklan doesnt have a problem with this i wouldnt mine transfering over 3 units from my order to BlackLilac

that is after i receive BTC from him

fine with me. let me know.

[oaxaca]

If you have more than 300 order when the time comes to pay ~friedcat, do not include my order.

Hi tvbcof,

(grumble)

If need be I will pay you for your order.

(/grumble)

[arklan]

dang it, i hadn't seen your post tvbcof. a refund can be arranged as i siad, just pm me.

or work it out with oaxaca, if that suits you.

now, i'm going to go get an energy drink so i can at least be coherent enough to not miss posts!

[tvbcof]

dang it, i hadn't seen your post tvbcof. a refund can be arranged as i siad, just pm me.

or work it out with oaxaca, if that suits you.

now, i'm going to go get an energy drink so i can at least be coherent enough to not miss posts!

I'll stand by my post.

If we don't see the satisfaction I want to see out of ~friedcat by the 16th, I'll cancel.

I'll let you and John K work out the details of whether and how much to re-fund me, and how/if to structure any replacements.

I shudder to think of what a nightmare this is going to be.  And I'll note that if ~friedcat where simply clear in his policies the who thing could be avoided.  Just 'clear' and not even necessarily 'fair'.  It was my bad for not taking the time to research ~friedcat and I expect to bear at least some the burden of that failure.

I'm looking at being tied up for the latter part of today and most of tomorrow.  That is why the 16th is the date for me.

[DebitMe]

I am interested in getting out for my 7 units if anyone wants to purchase at face price. I am talks of a refund, but transfering would be easier

[Stevenrm87]

Um how long is this gonna take to get the erupters?  Do we have an ETA?

[arklan]

Um how long is this gonna take to get the erupters?  Do we have an ETA?

i should have them in hand towards the end of next week, latest. so depending on the postal sevice, you should get em by approximately the end of the month.

the above are estimates.

[tvbcof]

...
I will sign a message pointing to this forum post if need be.

I won't have access to a trusted machine for a few days so I'll sign this now.

==========
The problem would come if the order got down below 300.  I'm a participant in this group-buy effort  and definitely don't want to screw anyone here.

At this point I would like it if you keep my order, but:

If ~friedcat has not published a clearly documented policy on ordering and shipping by May-16-2013 and received our funds, and if he has not put us in the queued appropriately given that we had our money on the table some days ago:

If you have more than 300 order when the time comes to pay ~friedcat, do not include my order.
Instead, refund me, and take any fees which are appropriate to compensate you both for your outstanding work.  I believe that anything up to .5 BTC for this would be fair but am happy to leave it to you two to make the decision based on whether there are other people who fall into the same category.
Keep my funds until the end so that you may evaluate the fair costs when all is said and done.

I will sign a message pointing to this forum post if need be.
===========

sig: HPKz4+nWlqADzhKTwZv3vosasqSpvGMGska+liVtccxqpjnsyeljLSZHgjLPF1I9Z1NNA+o07/G0RIcKtRsRuKg=


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Although it could be edited:

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195052.msg2149251#msg2149251
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sig: G79kdNo0fFPR3QN7Za88iPoy8+eRwDws8zxLVTWu+1g+OgLD9S/9wMwGgcvliMNchThKQznMYuT91IDCBU98gyA=

[HTML5 Gordon]

Hopefully we won't have too many refund requests...

Ah, the joys of group buys...

[bigbeninlondon]

Hopefully we won't have too many refund requests...

Ah, the joys of group buys...

I for one never expected an outstanding ROI.  At 5 watts, even if difficulty were currently DOUBLE what it is now AND the profitability decline is at .61, you'd still pay back in less than 2 years.  Understood that's nothing CRAZY, but for me mining is really more about getting bitcoins outside of unreliable sketchy ass exchanges anyway.  Plus I help the network and it's a fun hobby. 

Seriously, the chips are going to be available soon, and there are tons of group buys and DIY/Open Source PCB boards that will be available; serious miners should be following those way more closely.  This was (as I recall) more of a novelty item for most anyway.  Waiting a week is really not that big a deal. 

[arklan]

Hopefully we won't have too many refund requests...

Ah, the joys of group buys...

I for one never expected an outstanding ROI.  At 5 watts, even if difficulty were currently DOUBLE what it is now AND the profitability decline is at .61, you'd still pay back in less than 2 years.  Understood that's nothing CRAZY, but for me mining is really more about getting bitcoins outside of unreliable sketchy ass exchanges anyway.  Plus I help the network and it's a fun hobby. 

Seriously, the chips are going to be available soon, and there are tons of group buys and DIY/Open Source PCB boards that will be available; serious miners should be following those way more closely.  This was (as I recall) more of a novelty item for most anyway.  Waiting a week is really not that big a deal. 

i'm with ya. my father's long been in the stock market in a minor way, so i've talked about bitcoin to him a bit. the ROI info blows his mind. anything under 5 years is shocking to him...

i figure as long as they pay a little more then their electricity, they stay on. which is why my gpu is still chugging.

[tvbcof]

Hopefully we won't have too many refund requests...

Ah, the joys of group buys...

I for one never expected an outstanding ROI.  At 5 watts, even if difficulty were currently DOUBLE what it is now AND the profitability decline is at .61, you'd still pay back in less than 2 years.  Understood that's nothing CRAZY, but for me mining is really more about getting bitcoins outside of unreliable sketchy ass exchanges anyway.  Plus I help the network and it's a fun hobby. 

Seriously, the chips are going to be available soon, and there are tons of group buys and DIY/Open Source PCB boards that will be available; serious miners should be following those way more closely.  This was (as I recall) more of a novelty item for most anyway.  Waiting a week is really not that big a deal. 

I'm mostly with ya, but am pissed and disappointed that ~friedcat does not seem to be reliable and proficient as a counterpart.  Oh well.  I'm sure there will be more, and am looking forward to how closely 2nd-gen ASIC's approach a theoretical performance maximum (and price minimum for that matter.)

I also would point out that if Bitcoin undergoes another sharp price increase, economics could change on a dime.  It is worthwhile to have something which could hash, even if it is just a GPU, but it's not something I've ever felt to be a force driving me to get set up for.  Just sitting on BTC covers that corner-case.

[Stevenrm87]

Um how long is this gonna take to get the erupters?  Do we have an ETA?

i should have them in hand towards the end of next week, latest. so depending on the postal sevice, you should get em by approximately the end of the month.

the above are estimates.

10-4

[elCamo]

Hey, once you get these let me know if you have an extra one to sell..
Thanks