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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3859368 times)
jafo
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February 16, 2011, 04:08:52 AM
 #781

If I was mining for myself I'd have 100BTC right now.

I think the thing you're forgetting here is that your computer found two blocks with the help of hundreds of others.  If you were solo mining, you would have had to go through all the chunks that other computers had gone through, to reach the one that was the hit, and you would have had to have done it faster than the pool could do it.  It's not that you are unlucky, it's that you're lucky and just happen to be hitting on these chunks that have the magic jam in them.

Remember, the reason the pool was set up was, as I understand it, slush was running a fairly hefty rig, and was not getting hits after even several days, so this was a way of getting many people helping and through that getting, say, a steady 10BTC/day, rather than hitting the 50BTC lottery every 5 days...
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Voltaic
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February 16, 2011, 04:25:35 AM
 #782

I just registered here, literally, to thank slush for the coop mining server.

I found bitcoin around July of last year, and left it running for 2 days (found 1 of my own 50 coin blocks, on my horrible CPU!), then abandoned it because, at the time, I felt like it wouldn't stick around long enough to make it worth my time. How foolish do I feel! I'd have a fortune if I had kept it going!

Anyway, I saw the article and dug out my old wallet, and used the calculator. I realized it would take me forever to find another 50coin block, and almost gave up, until I saw this thread.

I restarted bitcoin on Thursday, and on Saturday I started some mining apps, connected to slush's server.

Despite the fact that I feel I haven't made a ton, I believe it's better than i'd do solo. At first I just left it at the 2% donation. I cranked it up to 6 because, frankly, it's a service that saves me a lot of wasted time. At least i'm getting a payout.

Thanks slush!
myrkul
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February 16, 2011, 09:47:09 AM
 #783

OK, I signed up on the site, and I have a bitcoin program going. My question: how do I get the two to talk?

I need a nice, Hand-holdy, step-by-step for getting a linux box (ubuntu 9.04) up and running with ya.

I'm fairly comfortable in the command line, but not so much in building from source.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

edit: oops 10.04 - forgot I upgraded to the LTS

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slush
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February 16, 2011, 10:02:04 AM
 #784

OK, I signed up on the site, and I have a bitcoin program going. My question: how do I get the two to talk?
I need a nice, Hand-holdy, step-by-step for getting a linux box (ubuntu 9.04) up and running with ya.

You don't need Bitcoin client working for mining. Please follow instructions from pool homepage, there are few clients, compilation is not needed in any case.

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February 16, 2011, 10:13:56 AM
 #785

OK, I signed up on the site, and I have a bitcoin program going. My question: how do I get the two to talk?
I need a nice, Hand-holdy, step-by-step for getting a linux box (ubuntu 9.04) up and running with ya.

You don't need Bitcoin client working for mining. Please follow instructions from pool homepage, there are few clients, compilation is not needed in any case.

Then which one has an included Linux binary? 'cause I can't find one.

working on getting jgarzik's cpu miner going... I'll let you know how it comes.

Edit: got it compiled, and running. We'll see what happens from here. Smiley

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theGECK
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February 16, 2011, 12:09:28 PM
 #786

You don't need Bitcoin client working for mining. Please follow instructions from pool homepage, there are few clients, compilation is not needed in any case.

Really? I thought that in order for the miner to mine, bitcoin had to be running with the -server switch. At least, that's what the guide for m0mchil's miner from http://www.newslobster.com seem to say.

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epicenter
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February 16, 2011, 12:57:41 PM
 #787

You don't need Bitcoin client working for mining. Please follow instructions from pool homepage, there are few clients, compilation is not needed in any case.

Really? I thought that in order for the miner to mine, bitcoin had to be running with the -server switch. At least, that's what the guide for m0mchil's miner from http://www.newslobster.com seem to say.

That is for solo minning. When you solo mine, your miner ask the bitcoin client what work it should do. In slush's pool, your miner ask Slush's server what work to do
(as far as I know)
theGECK
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February 16, 2011, 03:39:33 PM
 #788

That is for solo minning. When you solo mine, your miner ask the bitcoin client what work it should do. In slush's pool, your miner ask Slush's server what work to do (as far as I know)

This appears to be correct. Both CPU and GPU miners are reporting hash/s and no errors when connecting to mining.bitcoin.cz, so I'm assuming that it is working correctly. In 7 minutes, I got two shares, but also two that were not accepted. The GPU miner had a "trouble communicating to RPC server" message twice, whereas the CPU miner has had two Result FOUND:xxxx Not Accepted messages on it.

I'm really hoping that this is true, because that means I wouldn't have to wait for the block history to download on my machines before I start to mine with the pool!

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racerx
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February 16, 2011, 05:18:10 PM
 #789

Hi!

Just hooked up my new HD6970 to the pool Smiley

Code:
racerx@fry:~/Downloads/poclbm$ ./poclbm.py -u xxx --pass=xxx -o mining.bitcoin.cz -p8332 -f2 -w256 -v -d0
16/02/2011 16:25:52, b7402f1a, accepted                     
16/02/2011 16:25:56, 38b477ca, accepted                     
16/02/2011 16:26:03, d518754b, accepted                     
16/02/2011 16:26:15, bee6b69d, invalid or stale             
16/02/2011 16:26:22, 4df8f54a, accepted                     
16/02/2011 16:26:32, dc3e84ae, accepted                     
309385 khash/s

With a bit of O/C ing Im up at 320,000khash/s now

What are the splits for pooled mining? Will I get exactly my share of each payout based on my CPU/GPU contribution?  (minus the donation of course)?

Just wondering If I'm better going it alone for the time being.. or is it going to be identical?
xenon481
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February 16, 2011, 05:49:14 PM
 #790

It should average out over time to be near identical minus the fee.

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Beremat
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February 16, 2011, 10:47:03 PM
 #791

Okay, so I'm just wondering if I'm doing this right. The console window is showing 70000khash/sec, and I see mostly "accepted" results. My batch file looks like this:

start /D "C:\Program Files (x86)\bitcoin\poclbm_py2exe_20110215" poclbm.exe --user=Beremat.GPU --pass=[my password here] --device=0 --host=mining.bitcoin.cz

Is this correct? I'm not seeing any bitcoins in my account on mining.bitcoin.cz, but maybe I'm just too impatient.

slush
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February 16, 2011, 10:50:38 PM
 #792

Today I would like to introduce new system for calculating round rewards. Currently the "share based" system calculate user's round reward as

Code:
reward = user shares / total shares * 50
(fees and donations are not calculated here for simplicity)

which gives the oportunity for cheating by switching between more pools (or between pool and  "solo mining"). For further reading please follow paper written by Raulo and also read history of this thread.

Thanks to Cosurgi and Raulo, I implemented new, "cheat proof" strategy for calculating reward. Basic idea is that older shares (from beginning of the round) has lower weight than newer shares, which demotivate cheater from switching between pools inside one round. Once cheater disconnect from pool, his submitted shares lose value, so he cannot perform "Raulo's attack" effectively.

Matematically said, for every submitted share, pool perform

Code:
score = score + exp(round_time/C)

round_time is count of seconds between "now" and time when round started, C is magic constant which define how fast old shares lose their value. All following calculations are using C=300, but it may be changed in the future to provide the best cheatproof/usability ratio.

And on the end of round, system calculate rewards using formula

Code:
reward = user score / total score * 50

Question: I'm honest miner, how it affect my mining in the pool?

In longer time, this does not affect you at all. In shorter time, this introduce some bigger variance in daily rewards. When "solo mining" has the biggest possible variance and "share based" pool has the lowest possible variance, "score based" system is something between, but it is extremely close to "share based" system.

To be even more specific, your reward variance depends on two factors: your hashrate and your uptime on pool. Higher uptime in pool and higher hasrate leads to more steady pool payouts.

Model 1: If you're slow miner and have only few shares in hour, you may be unlucky and submit your shares to fresh rounds. In this case, all of your shares will have very low score which lead to low round rewards. But in longer time, it is very unlikely that you submit shares everytime to fresh rounds. In the other case, if you are lucky, you can hit share near the round end and your round reward can be much higher than average, which compensate your bad luck in previous rounds.

Better said, with few shares per hour, you probably never find the block mining standalone, so you should not care that your daily reward does not perfect fit your theoretic reward. It is very unlikely that you will be unlucky every day.

Model 2: You're quite strong miner, but you're disconnecting from pool frequently, because you play games, crack passwords using your GPU or anything else. Also in your case the round rewards can have bigger variance, because the score based system is pointing exactly this case. Pool don't know that you're disconnecting because you want to play games or because you're trying to peform switching attack. Simply said, it will be everytime better to disconnect from pool when next round begins. But even when you disconnect inside round, you never lose more than "expected round reward", of course. Still, even with random disconnects, your daily reward for longer time should be very similar as in share based system.

I gathered some statistics for score based system in last days and Cosurgi was so kind and prepared some nice graphs.

"line number" on x-axis show pool participants sorted by count of submitted shares. On the left side are the strongest miners, on the righ side are CPU miners.


The graph above shows absolute reward for every participant for score based and share based systems. You see that common miners have almost no difference. Last ~60 slowest miners have bigger difference in rewards in percentages, but we're talking mostly about less than Bitcoin cents (see exponential scale on y-axis). One lucky round for those slow miners is enough to get more steady payout, which is very likely in longer time period.

Those three miners with extremely big difference between score and share systems in the middle of the graph were extremely unlucky in disconnecting from the pool or (more likely) people who were using Raulo's attack. If this is true, it is not real problem for current pool participants, as their total rewards are only in few bitcoins for whole period of stats.


This second graph shows how variance is going down with more submitted shares. As you see, there is big variance for people submitted tens of shares in total (those stats are for more than four days of pool uptime!), but with rising count of shares, it become more steady as everybody has the same chance to hit good and also bad times for share submits.


The last graph shows variance in % for pool participants. That means, that strong miner can expect +- few percents of daily rewards and the slowest one +- 20 % of daily rewards. This is still extremely better than mining solo. Please keep in mind that those differences in daily rewards will be only temporary, in longer time average it will be the same as original share based system and you probably never hit such small variance in daily rewards without some kind of pool. Also don't forget that this change is necessary to show pool stats back again and keep you, honest miners, safe.

If there won't be any important reason to not start counting rewards this way, I'll start score based system tomorrow. I'll also publish pool stats without delays, as little compensation for bigger variance in the pool.

And again, big thanks to Cosurgi (long talks on IRC and nice stats in gnuplot) and Raulo (models for cheater's reward with and without score based system).

Cryptoman
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February 16, 2011, 11:16:55 PM
 #793

You're amazing, slush.  I look forward to the return of real-time stats.  Did you ever fix the problem of not being able to change worker passwords (memory cache)?

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February 16, 2011, 11:26:42 PM
 #794

If this will allow us to see real-time stats, especially on a per-worker basis, I like it. Since I leave myself connected almost 24/7, disconnecting only when work requires me to, I don't see this affecting me much at all.

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February 16, 2011, 11:28:23 PM
 #795

If this will allow us to see real-time stats, especially on a per-worker basis, I like it. Since I leave myself connected almost 24/7, disconnecting only when work requires me to, I don't see this affecting me much at all.

Same here. Slush is really doing a great job.

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February 16, 2011, 11:56:03 PM
 #796

which gives the oportunity for cheating by switching between more pools (or between pool and  "solo mining"). For further reading please follow paper written by Ryo and also read history of this thread.
He is charging 1 BTC for his paper. Those who don't want to pay can read my paper which is free and has a detailed proof of the strategy:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3165.msg44357#msg44357

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jafo
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February 17, 2011, 03:21:38 AM
 #797

Model 2: You're quite strong miner, but you're disconnecting from pool frequently, because you play games

My case is running around 50Mhash/sec when my screensaver is on, and stopping when I'm working at the computer.  I guess I ideally need to figure out lowering the impact of the GPU miner.  But, gee, it sure works swell right now.

If it's between having recent stats and hurting intermittent crunchers, and having 2 hour stats delays, I'm ok with the stats delays.  :-)  But, preventing cheating trumps all.
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February 17, 2011, 03:44:06 AM
 #798

So I setup an account, put in my address, created a worker then passed those values into rpc miner with the server url. The target says fffffff....0000.... and it appears to be working with 1800 khash/s. But on the site it says zero found blocks for the worker, is it working correctly?

Edit: I also just got a found hash and server okay response. Is the site only updated once a day? Or should I see my found block count go up?
techtony
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February 17, 2011, 04:57:05 AM
 #799

So I setup an account, put in my address, created a worker then passed those values into rpc miner with the server url. The target says fffffff....0000.... and it appears to be working with 1800 khash/s. But on the site it says zero found blocks for the worker, is it working correctly?

Edit: I also just got a found hash and server okay response. Is the site only updated once a day? Or should I see my found block count go up?

Your block found count will only increase if you manage to find a block. What your worker is doing is crunching smaller, easier to solve shares and submitting those to the pool. As long as you are reporting shares to the server, everything is working how it should.
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February 17, 2011, 06:38:06 AM
 #800

He is charging 1 BTC for his paper. Those who don't want to pay can read my paper which is free and has a detailed proof of the strategy:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3165.msg44357#msg44357

Raulo, please receive my apologies, I confuse your and Ryo, when I wrote the post. I changed the original post with link to your thread and fixed "Ryo" to "Raulo".

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