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Author Topic: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game  (Read 433280 times)
bobboooiie
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July 28, 2013, 01:42:54 PM
 #1221

I don't think there should be an option to track total losses, doesn't sound good from a marketing perspective...?


Yes, not having it would be the best option probably. Or at least not at visible as it is right now
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TheFuneral
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July 28, 2013, 02:13:19 PM
 #1222

Suggestion, allow players to reset their profit/loss counter. A psychological placebo of sorts. I never gambled in my life but thought to try it since I'm an investor. I lost 0.5btc in about an hour. Now every time i come to the website i get this glaring -0.5 in the profit column that just screams "you are a looooooser". this is probably a healthy deterrent but allowing a user to refresh to 0, at their own choosing, would help them keep the thrill.

Wrong, if you see you are down any amount your OCD will force you to play it into positive or 0 balance Smiley  ev+ for site

But some players will be put off with the constant negative numbers. Maybe I don't really gamble that much so I don't know. Maybe you are right.

Is having the option so bad? I guess you can always make a new profile and that is a reset.

I'm not even sure why we tell investors. I can't think of a single application where they inform the gambler of their past performance.
dooglus
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July 28, 2013, 03:24:21 PM
 #1223

Why should these whales get a safer way to invest? If they don't trust you they can go away.

They don't only have to trust that I mean well, they also have to trust that I don't accidentally lose the wallet, or get robbed.  I can have the best intentions in the world and still lose your coins.

Also if they keep coins locally and the site ruins badly one week, only the investors who trust you will get burned. These lucky whales from the 1 cent days will simply run and leave us to burn.

I'm not sure you understand how it works, given that you're saying this.  Even with the ability to keep the bulk of your coins locally, I'll never let an investor risk coins that I don't have physical access to, so there won't be an option to "run and leave us to burn", if by that you mean they leave owing the site coins.

The risk as I see it is that someone deposits 1000 BTC, claims to have another 49k BTC locally, and so I add 500 BTC to the max profit.  They then quickly lose that 1000 BTC and don't deposit any of the 49k BTC to top up their on-site investment, and so I have to liquidate their position and reduce the max profit by 500 BTC.  Their (relatively) small deposit had a large effect on the max profit, both up and down, which looks bad.

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dooglus
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July 28, 2013, 03:30:39 PM
 #1224

I can't think of a single application where they inform the gambler of their past performance.

It may be "bad for business" to confront the gambler with an accurate statement of their position, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

I'd rather the player know the truth about their losses rather than lie to themselves that they are "about even".  Then they can make an informed decision about whether to keep playing or not.

The tricks used by casinos to keep players playing seem shady to me.  I'd rather give them the facts and let them make up their own mind.

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eltopo
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July 28, 2013, 04:12:15 PM
 #1225

The risk as I see it is that someone deposits 1000 BTC, claims to have another 49k BTC locally, and so I add 500 BTC to the max profit.  They then quickly lose that 1000 BTC and don't deposit any of the 49k BTC to top up their on-site investment, and so I have to liquidate their position and reduce the max profit by 500 BTC.  Their (relatively) small deposit had a large effect on the max profit, both up and down, which looks bad.

Perhaps you could introduce some kind of max. factor, e.g. 10x. This would mean, an investor can deposit 10 BTC, but because of the max. factor he can only claim to have max. 90 BTC locally.
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July 28, 2013, 04:14:50 PM
 #1226

The risk as I see it is that someone deposits 1000 BTC, claims to have another 49k BTC locally, and so I add 500 BTC to the max profit.  They then quickly lose that 1000 BTC and don't deposit any of the 49k BTC to top up their on-site investment, and so I have to liquidate their position and reduce the max profit by 500 BTC.  Their (relatively) small deposit had a large effect on the max profit, both up and down, which looks bad.

That would be so scummy because that means they get 10x the profit they should be getting from their investment.
akeetlebeetle
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July 28, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
 #1227

I can't think of a single application where they inform the gambler of their past performance.

It may be "bad for business" to confront the gambler with an accurate statement of their position, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

I'd rather the player know the truth about their losses rather than lie to themselves that they are "about even".  Then they can make an informed decision about whether to keep playing or not.

The tricks used by casinos to keep players playing seem shady to me.  I'd rather give them the facts and let them make up their own mind.

How about the best of both worlds. Have a total profit/loss column alongside a session profit/loss (that may or may not be resettable).
infested999
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July 28, 2013, 04:29:34 PM
 #1228

I can't think of a single application where they inform the gambler of their past performance.

It may be "bad for business" to confront the gambler with an accurate statement of their position, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

I'd rather the player know the truth about their losses rather than lie to themselves that they are "about even".  Then they can make an informed decision about whether to keep playing or not.

The tricks used by casinos to keep players playing seem shady to me.  I'd rather give them the facts and let them make up their own mind.

How about the best of both worlds. Have a total profit/loss column alongside a session profit/loss (that may or may not be resettable).

Like the KM counter in your car, where you press the button to reset it.
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July 28, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
 #1229


The most sensible time to invest is when investments are low, because then each coin you invest represents a larger share of the bankroll, and so gets a correspondingly larger part of any bettor action.


This is like saying "the most sensible time to buy Bitcoins is when the price is low", which sounds logical, but has something wrong with it.  

You can only judge "low" by looking at past prices, not future prices.  Only in hindsight can you tell where the "bottom" is.
You can't tell if tomorrow's price will be lower than today's, which would make it "un-sensible" to buy today.

Given that J-D has a +EV for the investor, you can expect every moment to be at least as sensible to invest than the next.

(Someone tell me if this is pretzel logic.)
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July 28, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
 #1230

My vision for the site was as a community of small investors together building a decent sized bankroll for themselves and others to play against.  Not as a money-making scheme for a small number of already-rich bitcoin millionaires.

It may be "bad for business" to confront the gambler with an accurate statement of their position, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

I'd rather the player know the truth about their losses rather than lie to themselves that they are "about even".  Then they can make an informed decision about whether to keep playing or not.

The tricks used by casinos to keep players playing seem shady to me.  I'd rather give them the facts and let them make up their own mind.

You really deserve success...

1LohorisJie8bGGG7X4dCS9MAVsTEbzrhu
DefaultTrust is very BAD.
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July 28, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
 #1231

dooglus,

ive given some more thought about the fractional reserve investing and have come to appreciate the idea, more and more.

have you given any more thought on implementing this? have you considered slowly lowering the minimum onsite/offsite ratio over time just to test the waters?

also, is there a way to have a 'read only' login mode? id like to stay logged in permantently without the risk of someone betting or divesting.
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July 28, 2013, 07:13:01 PM
 #1232

I'm not even sure why we tell investors. I can't think of a single application where they inform the gambler of their past performance.

I don't care what Dooglus chooses to show or not show the gamblers, since I don't gamble, but as an investor, I expect to be able to see my investment performance on Just-dice, the same as on Litecoinglobal, BTCT-CO, and most of the other investing platforms. Periodically I survey all my investments for purposes of portfolio rebalancing, making future investment decisions, etc. If I have to do a lot of calculations by hand just to figure out the current value of my investment or portfolio on a platform, it gets tedious/aggravating to the point where I begin to compare it with other investment options that are less maintenance-intensive, and makes me wonder why the platform doesn't show them. I'm already mildly peeved at Cryptostocks because I have to pick up a calculator and add up the value of each different asset manually just to find out the total value of my portfolio. I realize Just-dice has a lot of variance, and I'm not going to be upset with the site if I log in for a monthly review and see at a glance that my 0.14 BTC invested is down 0.001 at the moment (for example), but I very well might get upset if I have to do several minutes of calculations just to find that out.
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July 28, 2013, 07:39:52 PM
 #1233

dooglus,

ive given some more thought about the fractional reserve investing and have come to appreciate the idea, more and more.

have you given any more thought on implementing this? have you considered slowly lowering the minimum onsite/offsite ratio over time just to test the waters?

also, is there a way to have a 'read only' login mode? id like to stay logged in permantently without the risk of someone betting or divesting.
You can just activate google auth for divesting, playing and withdrawing. 
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July 28, 2013, 09:07:50 PM
 #1234

16
is quite lean
so go for 32
you'll surely hew

if that didn't work
don't go berserk
jump to 64
it's an easy chore

missed that
go for a clap
raise the stake
and bet 128

oh fuck
such a bad luck
now it's two-five-six
this i need to fix

great, maximum bet
i've already lost a corvette
now y'all look at me
coz this you gotta see
yolo one, yolo two, yolo three
DomenicoRomano
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July 29, 2013, 12:35:25 AM
 #1235

I can't think of a single application where they inform the gambler of their past performance.

It may be "bad for business" to confront the gambler with an accurate statement of their position, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

I'd rather the player know the truth about their losses rather than lie to themselves that they are "about even".  Then they can make an informed decision about whether to keep playing or not.

The tricks used by casinos to keep players playing seem shady to me.  I'd rather give them the facts and let them make up their own mind.

This is great.  Honest statistics, real feedback that is of interest to the customers.  If people look at those numbers and stop betting then that is great, they will lose less in the long run.

And maybe they will gamble less at other games.  Just-dice is the best game (lowest house edge) and if you can't win at just-dice why bother with anyone else?  Satoshi dice had that effect on me.  I am way ahead by not betting.  Not betting optimizes total return over time.
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July 29, 2013, 01:10:37 AM
 #1236

Today is the first day in a while that I will pay a commission.

What protection does Just-Dice have against someone cashing out before the commission is collected?
Everytime you divest, commission is charged.  In addition, it is charged at midnight UTC every Sunday.
dooglus
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July 29, 2013, 04:12:25 AM
 #1237

Given that J-D has a +EV for the investor, you can expect every moment to be at least as sensible to invest than the next.

(Someone tell me if this is pretzel logic.)

Investment seems to go up when the site is winning and down when it's losing.  Maybe that effect will reduce over time as people realise that the site really is going to profit the expected 1% in the long run and so get less panicked by large bets.

Given that betting volume doesn't go down when the site is losing, but total investment does, that seems like a good time to invest.

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July 29, 2013, 04:16:16 AM
 #1238

have you given any more thought on implementing this? have you considered slowly lowering the minimum onsite/offsite ratio over time just to test the waters?

I posted my most recent thoughts here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242962.msg2815837#msg2815837

I'm on the fence about it at the moment, and so won't make any change in the immediate future.  I will probably experiment in the future.

also, is there a way to have a 'read only' login mode? id like to stay logged in permantently without the risk of someone betting or divesting.

You can edit your google auth settings to prevent invest/divest/bet/withdraw.  If you turn all those things on then you're pretty much in 'read-only' mode.

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July 29, 2013, 04:17:37 AM
 #1239

I realize Just-dice has a lot of variance, and I'm not going to be upset with the site if I log in for a monthly review and see at a glance that my 0.14 BTC invested is down 0.001 at the moment (for example), but I very well might get upset if I have to do several minutes of calculations just to find that out.

Just to be clear, are you happy with what's currently shown?

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July 29, 2013, 04:21:43 AM
 #1240

Everytime you divest, commission is charged.  In addition, it is charged at midnight UTC every Sunday.

The way you wrote that could be interpreted as saying that I'm charging multiple times.  I only charge commission once on each new unit of profit.  If you never divest, then you pay each Sunday.  If you divest, you only pay commission if you're withdrawing your whole principal and then start dipping into new profits, at which point commission is charged only on the new profits you withdraw.  This is purely to prevent investors 'dodging' commission by divesting at 23:59 on Sunday and reinvesting at 00:01 on Monday.

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   1% House Edge
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