[ANN] Bitfury ASIC sales in EU and Europe

[xstr8guy]

Bad news is that the price is much higher. New H-cards will sell for 850€ a piece + VAT.

Yeah that's a shame. With delivery Dec 16, I wouldn't pay more than 550€ including tax. I guess it's time to move on to BitMain's AntMiner or BitMine's CoinCraft.

So you think you're going to get a CoinCraft before December 16th?  Maybe March 14th if the don't close up shop before they release their first miner. 

[greaterninja]

850 euros for one H-card is a joke.  not only that, the h-cards usually take some tuning and lots of maintenance to have consistently good yields.

I think I will stick to litecoin mining and bitmain's antminers now on.  I will probably then go onto KNC.

It is very sad that Tytus, Punin and Buzzdave have become so greedy that we cannot populate our starter kits without significantly more financial contribution.


FYI, buzzdave is talking about 60 day roi.  Antminer right now does 31 day overclocked and is a lot more stable.


Don't even let me get into the shit show on how picostocks was handled or how dividends and balances are still missing after several days.

[xstr8guy]

850 euros for one H-card is a joke.  not only that, the h-cards usually take some tuning and lots of maintenance to have consistently good yields.

I think I will stick to litecoin mining and bitmain's antminers now on.  I will probably then go onto KNC.

It is very sad that Tytus, Punin and Buzzdave have become so greedy that we cannot populate our starter kits without significantly more financial contribution.


FYI, buzzdave is talking about 60 day roi.  Antminer right now does 31 day overclocked and is a lot more stable.


Don't even let me get into the shit show on how picostocks was handled or how dividends and balances are still missing after several days.

 I made a lengthy post in the MegaBigPower thread but the gist of it... H boards went up ~225% but BTC has gone up ~700% since the last batch sold for $500 each.

I'll probably order a few boards from each version to beef up my Sept and Oct partial kits just because they look sad and lonely, lol.  I sure would have loved to fill the slots but they're a little too rich for my blood although not completely ridiculously overpriced compared to an AntMiner for example.

[rammy2k2]

makes no sense to order 30 GH for 850 EUR + VAT , it will never make ROI , unless BTC will double its value ...
the ugliest part here is, that WE KNOW these boards cand be sold for 250 EUR - 300 EUR, with profit included for manufacturer, and now they just added a extra 600 EUR for them ... dissapointed, if it this was BFL, i would understand ...

[CryptoCluster]

makes no sense to order 30 GH for 850 EUR + VAT , it will never make ROI , unless BTC will double its value ...
the ugliest part here is, that WE KNOW these boards cand be sold for 250 EUR - 300 EUR, with profit included for manufacturer, and now they just added a extra 600 EUR for them ... dissapointed, if it this was BFL, i would understand ...

H-cards would also make good profit for manufacturer if sold for less than 50 EUR. But it this oldest law of market. Supply and demand.

[punin]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago. I've worked my ass off since july to make this happen. It makes me sad that it's all so quickly forgotten due to the exact thing you're now accusing me of.

2. Before you start calling people greedy, think what would you do in Tytus's place. He has hardware than makes shitloads of money for him. Would you sell your miner even to your friend who really-really wants to start mining at the price you paid in september? All of you have made ROI with our hardware. Now you want MOAR. And you want even faster ROI and MOARMOARMOAR. There's a name for this kind of mentality

3. The primary reason why we don't have hardware to sell is the shortage of chips. Not too long ago people were complaining 15€ per chip is too expensive and that our hardware is too expensive. This sends a signal to manufacturer that there's no market for the product. This is why we didn't do large volume production, but only produced enough for Tytus's mine which is based on the new H-card, so no chips were left for old H-cards.

[Isokivi]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago. I've worked my ass off since july to make this happen. It makes me sad that it's all so quickly forgotten due to the exact thing you're now accusing me of.

I personally have not called you greedy, I feel like I should explain my view. Even if you were being greedy it would be perfectly justifiable. You are not nor should be in the business of handing out free money.

2. Before you start calling people greedy, think what would you do in Tytus's place. He has hardware than makes shitloads of money for him. Would you sell your miner even to your friend who really-really wants to start mining at the price you paid in september? All of you have made ROI with our hardware. Now you want MOAR. And you want even faster ROI and MOARMOARMOAR. There's a name for this kind of mentality

I'd keep selling at a price that makes business sense, like I think you are currently doing.

3. The primary reason why we don't have hardware to sell is the shortage of chips. Not too long ago people were complaining 15€ per chip is too expensive and that our hardware is too expensive. This sends a signal to manufacturer that there's no market for the product. This is why we didn't do large volume production, but only produced enough for Tytus's mine which is based on the new H-card, so no chips were left for old H-cards.

Any insight on if and when the supply of chips could improve ?

[Micky25]

the ugliest part here is, that WE KNOW these boards cand be sold for 250 EUR - 300 EUR, with profit included for manufacturer, and now they just added a extra 600 EUR for them ...

but we also know these board can be sold for much much more. Last week a bitburner fury, which is comparable, sold for 2.5 BTC. Jupiters sell for what, $28,000?

I expected a price around 1 BTC for new bitfury h-boards, I'm even surprised they sell them again and don't use all for themselves. They are not the welfare ministry after all.

I want to thank punin again for his great work, BFSB stuff saved my ass in this ASIC circus.

[Trupik]

punin: I quickly searched for past few pages, but the word "greed" is not on any of them. So, we don't consider you greedy, or at least nobody is calling you that. So relax. I for one thank you for your past efforts and wish you the best in your future endeavors. I think that people are just sad that the ship of instant profit has sailed and will not return anytime soon.

[tarmi]

I am afraid nobody did reach ROI in btc terms.

And whoever is making those prices, he is hedging against btc/fiat and unloading risks to miners:

when btc was 130 $ - boards did cost a lot of btc. now with btc @ 1000 $, boards cost 850 euros.

[ShadesOfMarble]

In hindsight you always know what would have been the better option.

Ask Avalon batch #1 owners about their ROI...

[spiccioli]

I am afraid nobody did reach ROI in btc terms.

Exactly and nobody will ever.

All August/September orders will NEVER reach break-even in BTC terms.

AntMiner's units were sold the other day at 4.25 BTC... a comparable unit made with BFSB harware would cost right now 8 BTC and will NEVER (again) reach break-even.

I had the hope to be able to buy around AntMiner's price VAT included, which would have made BFSB units more valuable to me because of their lower power consumption even if you need to babysit them till you reach a more or less stable functioning.

spiccioli

[punin]

punin: I quickly searched for past few pages, but the word "greed" is not on any of them. So, we don't consider you greedy, or at least nobody is calling you that. So relax. I for one thank you for your past efforts and wish you the best in your future endeavors. I think that people are just sad that the ship of instant profit has sailed and will not return anytime soon.

It is very sad that Tytus, Punin and Buzzdave have become so greedy that we cannot populate our starter kits without significantly more financial contribution.

[BrianM]

That is a sad story

[prawda]

I am afraid nobody did reach ROI in btc terms.

And whoever is making those prices, he is hedging against btc/fiat and unloading risks to miners:

when btc was 130 $ - boards did cost a lot of btc. now with btc @ 1000 $, boards cost 850 euros.

This.

But as long as people keep buying hardware that gives them worse outcome than just keeping the bitcoins, then mining hardware will not be profitable. Except for the ones who sell them ;-)
Mining has to ROI in terms of bitcoin, because you invest to receive bitcoins by buying mining hardware. The alternative is buying bitcoins, hence avoiding risks of hardware failure, rising difficulty, electricity costs and effort setting up and running. Furthermore you have full liquidity.
If you understand this and realize that hardware will ROI only, when btc price rises, then you must accept that this hardware is just stupid to buy. This is why punin's statement, that everyone got ROI is not accurate.

[Micky25]

If you understand this and realize that hardware will ROI only, when btc price rises, then you must accept that this hardware is just stupid to buy. This is why punin's statement, that everyone got ROI is not accurate.

Where is your ROI when you buy BTC and the price drops?

Everyone got ROI running bitfurys, either positive or negative, if everyone broke even is the better question. I have positive ROI, since weeks.

[Syke]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago.

I spent 246.79 btc on an Aug rig. You're insane if you think I've mined that much since then.

[Micky25]

^ sorry, but this calculation is just totally wrong. You paid an equivalent of 16,000 € if I'm right. And you mined an equivalent of how much since August? 20,000 €?

[Keefe]

^ sorry, but this calculation is just totally wrong. You paid an equivalent of 16,000 € if I'm right. And you mined an equivalent of how much since August? 20,000 €?

If the value of BTC had not risen, he'd be facing a major loss no matter how you look at it. Same for stuff bought now at the price Tytus is asking.

[Syke]

^ sorry, but this calculation is just totally wrong. You paid an equivalent of 16,000 € if I'm right. And you mined an equivalent of how much since August? 20,000 €?

No, I paid in bitcoins for a device that mines bitcoins. I did not pay in Euros, Dollars, Tulips, or any other form of currency. My ROI, in bitcoins, is a massive loss.