-

[bigasic]

crap, i just sent the email. your right G! our holdings could change, well i guess if it does, well just have to put that in the subject line..

I dont intend on selling, so im probably okay, but mine is sent...

[Bargraphics]

Email Sent

@Lab_Rat may comment otherwise, but I'd hold off emailing until the 22nd.  If your holdings change between now you'll have to resend, and it will confuse the issue....


grnbrg.

My holdings personally won't change so I'm good

[pacojones]

How to sign a message using blockchain.info:
- Log into blockchain.info
- Click on receive money
   - click on the actions button to the right of the address your using for labrat
   - click on sign message
      - enter email body as detailed in the post/s above
   - click sign message
   - copy "signature" output
Close "Sign Message" window

Using the message and signature, you can create a new email which you can send to labrat - this process proves that you have control of the BTC address.


How to VERIFY your message:
- Log into blockchain.info
- Click on receive money
   - Click on "More Actions" (bottom right - below the Balance)
   - Verify Message
   - Enter details
   - Click Verify - you should get a green "Message Successfully Verified" notice
Close "Verify Message" window

- Log out of blockchain.info if you are finished

[sparky999]

copy and pasted from the labrat profile on bitfunder

• No fees will be placed upon the dividends that are to be paid out to bondholders for electricity or hosting. 100% payout of the hashrate the bonds represent will be paid in full to the bondholders.


This clearly states that we are not to be charged additional fees on our dividends. Labrat you need to make this right.
It is not ok to blatantly breach the terms that you set out.

If as shareholders we simply let this slide then what is to prevent this becoming a regular thing whenever labrat feels like it he can just charge additional fees.

@labrat - you have through out this operation shown yourself to be a stand up guy, I don't wanna be the guy causing waves but I am not ok with the clearly laid out terms in the Labrat profile being blatantly disregarded because you had to do some additional work. Which incidentally was your choice - dividends could have been paid to everyone through bitfunder this week and indeed could also be done this way for the following two weeks. There is no need for manual payments right now.

I vote that dividends continue to be paid via bitfunder until the end of the month at which point your automated system should be operational and people will have had plenty of time to update their address'. There is no need to delay next weeks dividend payout.

[||bit]

copy and pasted from the labrat profile on bitfunder

• No fees will be placed upon the dividends that are to be paid out to bondholders for electricity or hosting. 100% payout of the hashrate the bonds represent will be paid in full to the bondholders.


This clearly states that we are not to be charged additional fees on our dividends. Labrat you need to make this right.
It is not ok to blatantly breach the terms that you set out.

If as shareholders we simply let this slide then what is to prevent this becoming a regular thing whenever labrat feels like it he can just charge additional fees.

@labrat - you have through out this operation shown yourself to be a stand up guy, I don't wanna be the guy causing waves but I am not ok with the clearly laid out terms in the Labrat profile being blatantly disregarded because you had to do some additional work. Which incidentally was your choice - dividends could have been paid to everyone through bitfunder this week and indeed could also be done this way for the following two weeks. There is no need for manual payments right now.

I vote that dividends continue to be paid via bitfunder until the end of the month at which point your automated system should be operational and people will have had plenty of time to update their address'. There is no need to delay next weeks dividend payout.

Even though I disagree with the fee being taken from dividends to pay for a few hours of admin work. The excerpt you pasted above technically wouldn't be enough to make a case, because the fee he charged was not for electricity or hosting. The fee he charged was for him to do a bit more work than usual to transmit to people their dividends.  However, the second half of that statement may be useful to make a case. Because an ad hoc fee was deducted which resulted in the case that 100% of dividends were not paid out.

The value of the fee is nothing really - maybe a cup of cafe bought coffee - but the principle is important. Not to say LR is being dishonest, but it at least has the appearance for some of bordering on a truth/trust issue.

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." - Einstein

[bittymitty]

More importantly how much hashing power are the bonds currently worth and when will they hit the magic 100/MHs as promised in the IPO?

My current calculation is 5250000 mh /55207 bonds = 95 mh/bond so we are still short 5 mhs!


Lab_Rat, Any news on the next delivery?

[kaneda2004]

Once labrat freezes trading on bitfunder will it be possible to sell bonds p2p or using labrat as escrow? I've got 269 bonds and I don't want to be locked down in this evolving market..

[bittymitty]

You will be able to sell the shares.  Not sure how or for how much but I am confident there will be a way!

[||bit]

You will be able to sell the shares.  Not sure how or for how much but I am confident there will be a way!

Craigslist. 

[bittymitty]

Maybe we could do it buttonwood style on a IRC session?

[||bit]

Due to issues with people not having THEIR OWN bitcoin addresses on BitFunder, I will be postponing this weeks dividends in an attempt to help give people more time to get their address situated.

This means the dividends due to go out Oct. 19th and Oct. 26th will BOTH go out on Oct. 26th.

Tuesday, Oct. 22nd, I will be freezing LRM on BitFunder and taking the final asset list.  At this time I am requesting that all individuals send a signed message in the format detailed below between Tuesday, Oct. 22nd Noon and Thursday, Oct. 24th 11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time.

If you fail to send a signed message via email to labrat@labratmining.com by the end of the time specified, your dividends will be rolled over to the following week.

Thursday, Oct. 31st will be the cut off for the week following.

If you do not verify ownership of your bonds via this method by Thursday, Nov. 7th, your bonds and accrued dividends will be absorbed by LRM.

I am giving everyone plenty of warning, so make sure your address on BitFunder is one of your own.

Format for signed message must be as follows:

EMail Title:
BTC address (must be the address on the bitfunder asset list which is the same one you signed the message with)

EMail Body:
Bonds: # owned
Name: (Name on BitCoinTalk or BFL Forums, not your real name)
BTC Address: (Preferred address, may keep the same or change)


Message Signature: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


The information in the body should be copy pasted from the signed message to your email, no leading or following spaces other than to separate the message signature from the message. No additional information necessary.

Note: Not everyone has an account on bitcointalk of BFL forums. So, this may end up hurting people that only read the forums, but have participated in LRM. There are a lot of lurkers out there reading the forums.

Since this would be emailed to you, I'd guess that the persons email could satisfy as good as a forum name.

Just trying to help.

[||bit]

Maybe we could do it buttonwood style on a IRC session?

It's not looking good. Maybe, LR would do well to ask for help from Bitfunder on the back-end software, and install it at his site. Pay for it if necessary (from the 25% pool of course).

EDIT: I didn't mean your idea wasn't looking good. I mean it looks like it's going to be a bit compplicated to resolve. Unless there is another similar site as Bitfunder available. Would you explain how the buttonwood styles works? I'm familiar with buttonwood being associated with Wall Street... but not sure on what you mean by buttonwood style.

[bigasic]

Maybe we could do it buttonwood style on a IRC session?

It's not looking good. Maybe, LR would do well to ask for help from Bitfunder on the back-end software, and install it at his site. Pay for it if necessary (from the 25% pool of course).

Im sure there will be a way. I have seen a similar bond company advertise that they will be selling/trading on their own site... Its not that difficult to set up. Also, there are still a few other options, havlock or whatever, is still an option.. I agree, I got into this with idea to be able to sell shares, so there has to be a way..

[nwfella]

Thinking about recommending purchase of a couple of shares to friends outside of the US but things aren't looking to good to be honest. I hope you get something figured out for those people that have continued to stick in there with you Lab. Best of luck.

*Will keep watching in case things start to improve soon.

[||bit]

Maybe we could do it buttonwood style on a IRC session?

It's not looking good. Maybe, LR would do well to ask for help from Bitfunder on the back-end software, and install it at his site. Pay for it if necessary (from the 25% pool of course).

Im sure there will be a way. I have seen a similar bond company advertise that they will be selling/trading on their own site... Its not that difficult to set up. Also, there are still a few other options, havlock or whatever, is still an option.. I agree, I got into this with idea to be able to sell shares, so there has to be a way..

Yeah, my gut assessment might be unwarranted. It's obviously technically doable. I'm just ignorant on what options are actually out there. And it doesn't seem like something that is a simple plug-in for a website... with the need to not only track shares, but manage bitcoin transfer (a kind of escrow between traders)... so, it seems it would require some kind of online fund management. That can carry some concerns of liability from the website owner, and Labrat is liability adverse (this seems why he has a lawyer and runs things the way he does).

[bigasic]

Maybe we could do it buttonwood style on a IRC session?

It's not looking good. Maybe, LR would do well to ask for help from Bitfunder on the back-end software, and install it at his site. Pay for it if necessary (from the 25% pool of course).

Im sure there will be a way. I have seen a similar bond company advertise that they will be selling/trading on their own site... Its not that difficult to set up. Also, there are still a few other options, havlock or whatever, is still an option.. I agree, I got into this with idea to be able to sell shares, so there has to be a way..

Yeah, my gut assessment might be unwarranted. It's obviously technically doable. I'm just ignorant on what options are actually out there. And it doesn't seem like something that is a simple plug-in for a website... with the need to not only track shares, but manage bitcoin transfer (a kind of escrow between traders)... so, it seems it would require some kind of online fund management. That can carry some concerns of liability from the website owner, and Labrat is liability adverse (this seems why he has a lawyer and runs things the way he does).

But something will need to be done. I got into this because of the fact I would be able to sell my shares, If I can't, that opens up a whole new can of worms. Thats why i think he'll  have something figured out. If there wasn't a way to sell or the value cant  go up (meaning, im just holding bonds for the dividends)  I would have never invested...So, Im sure he'll have something figure out...

[Ashitank]

More importantly how much hashing power are the bonds currently worth and when will they hit the magic 100/MHs as promised in the IPO?

My current calculation is 5250000 mh /55207 bonds = 95 mh/bond so we are still short 5 mhs!


Lab_Rat, Any news on the next delivery?

Good question , We need to keep-up with difficulty , getting more Mh/s or Gh/s per share when difficulty has become 3x of current difficulty will mean we will still earn near about same dividends as we are today with current Mh/s per share.  

[maqifrnswa]

Maybe we could do it buttonwood style on a IRC session?

It's not looking good. Maybe, LR would do well to ask for help from Bitfunder on the back-end software, and install it at his site. Pay for it if necessary (from the 25% pool of course).

Im sure there will be a way. I have seen a similar bond company advertise that they will be selling/trading on their own site... Its not that difficult to set up. Also, there are still a few other options, havlock or whatever, is still an option.. I agree, I got into this with idea to be able to sell shares, so there has to be a way..

check out how nastyfans does it, they do trading on their own site.
1) share owner lists how much they are willing to sell a share for, how many, and your bitcoin address.
2) buyer chooses to buy your seats, is given the seller's bitcoin address and how many bitcoin to send. The shares are "on hold" for a certain amount of time so two people don't end up buying the same shares.
3) the site checks the blockchain for that transaction. After 6 confirmations, the site moves the shares from one account to the other.

upside: the site doesn't hold any bitcoins, so no risk of theft or shadiness.
downside: only asks are listed, no bids -- there's a constant downward pressure on price


Another thing nastyfans does that could be good to emulate: dividends are paid out once a week in one transaction with minimal transaction fees, essentially shared by everyone. Charging every account .0005 for transaction fees is ridiculous when you can make a single transaction with fees a few times bigger than that.
Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/7c4d0999406c28ca71f67bd6c6b0d73ba75f43a565513b5d54ffe0ce480c7cb1

total fees for 20,000 "shares" and smaller dividends than LRM: 0.0035 BTC. I don't see how .0005 per account per week is at all reasonable when others are doing 0.00000014 per share per week (for a similar number of shares as LRM).

[||bit]

There are 5188 asset holders on Bitfunder's asset list. That's a lot of people affected by Bitfunder's new policy. And overall, they could benefit from an independently operated software application that replaces Bitfunder's functions.

Just a tip for any of you application programmers out there    You could even charge something like a tiny 0.25% fee for each trade done over the software application. But it probably wouldn't be a trivial project.

[fran2k]

I strongly believe that freezing the asset at this point is a very bad decision. Freezing would have been good before the panic to give everyone time to think it over and get the information needed to make a decision. However, now the panic is over, people had two days to think about it. If someone wants to sell, they will, freezing just makes life much harder for everyone and creates additional uncertainty.

I think that the best strategy at this point is to let the dust settle and find out how we proceed. If you still think that you want to freeze the asset, I think that it would be a good idea to set the exact time when you want to do it and give at least a one day notice. Just to make things clear and predictable.

+1 , Even i think freezing asset doesnt make sense , unless Lab rat has some more info & reasons behind this move other than to stop panic selling.

Right. Panic selling is over. After the initial panic there was only one person liquidating all his ~1k shares and causing all the sudden price drops in the last 24 hours. But he just sold off his last shares. So I expect the price to recover soon, cheap shares are most likely over 

No, it's not.

2013-10-15 11:55:51   SELL   ฿0.03000000   100   ฿3.00000000
2013-10-15 11:55:20   SELL   ฿0.02270598   1   ฿0.02270598
2013-10-15 11:55:20   SELL   ฿0.02200000   50   ฿1.10000000

That was cheap shares.