[ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com

[reb0rn21]

true if you hit a low diff coin with fast block with huge power you get a LOT of orphans....

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[MrJay]

Currently I'm load balancing between middlecoin, LTC and the most profitable I found at coinwarz

I get lots of disconnects and rejected/discarded work at middlecoin. Europe is very far from West US and the difficulty of the pool is too high

Apparently the high diff is not a problem, you just have to mine on it for a long period of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279644.0

[FlungSpun]

Currently I'm load balancing between middlecoin, LTC and the most profitable I found at coinwarz

I get lots of disconnects and rejected/discarded work at middlecoin. Europe is very far from West US and the difficulty of the pool is too high

Apparently the high diff is not a problem, you just have to mine on it for a long period of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279644.0

Think that equates to STAY CONNECTED for a long time. Slow is one thing, unreliable quite another.

[Wipeout2097]

Currently I'm load balancing between middlecoin, LTC and the most profitable I found at coinwarz

I get lots of disconnects and rejected/discarded work at middlecoin. Europe is very far from West US and the difficulty of the pool is too high

Apparently the high diff is not a problem, you just have to mine on it for a long period of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279644.0

Think that equates to STAY CONNECTED for a long time. Slow is one thing, unreliable quite another.

Indeed, that is my problem. It is pointless to mine at middlecoin for me, considering both the difficulty and the disconnects. I experimented 2 days @ 800 Kh/s and I get ~0.015 BTC

Regarding load balancing, it's a matter of not wasting available processing power while I get disconnects. When middlecoin is at high priority, cgminer get unresponsive upon a disconnect and doesn't move on to the next pool if I have it on failover

[h2odysee]

Do u have any plans to add new coins for making more profit ?

No, not at the moment. There aren't any more coins that would be profitable with our hashrate. I'll need to split up our hashrate, but that's difficult, so it may be a while.

[ranlo]

Do u have any plans to add new coins for making more profit ?

No, not at the moment. There aren't any more coins that would be profitable with our hashrate. I'll need to split up our hashrate, but that's difficult, so it may be a while.

For FTC, have you upgraded the client yet?

http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=3502.0

[cryptopi]

Stats (main) page doesn't appear to be updating for an hour now.... working for anyone?

[h2odysee]

Stats (main) page doesn't appear to be updating for an hour now.... working for anyone?

I disabled stats update for a bit while I compiled the newest feathercoin. It will be back up in 10 minutes or so.

[CoinBuzz]

any profit estimates for these days?

[h2odysee]

Here is a lifetime profit graph I just set up: http://middlecoin.com/profitgraph.html

The most recent days were:

08/28/13   0.0313
08/29/13   0.0287
08/30/13   0.0197
08/31/13   0.0188
09/01/13   0.0174
09/02/13   0.0187

LTC profitability is currently 0.0168

[Jriker1]

So what's going on with the overall alt coin ecosystem?  I fully believe h2o is above board so this has nothing to do with him. I keep adding more hash power and initially I see a nice boost in return. Then after time the value I used to bring in at 1 MH/s before is the same as I'm bringing in now at over 2 MH/s. Maybe even less. Is this:

• all alt coins are increasing difficulty so less returns?
• bitcoin value increase somehow effecting it?
• more people in middlecoin and the block finding increase doesn't match the increase in the number of people funds are being distributed to?

Something else.

Thoughts?

JR

[MrJay]

So what's going on with the overall alt coin ecosystem?  I fully believe h2o is above board so this has nothing to do with him. I keep adding more hash power and initially I see a nice boost in return. Then after time the value I used to bring in at 1 MH/s before is the same as I'm bringing in now at over 2 MH/s. Maybe even less. Is this:

• all alt coins are increasing difficulty so less returns?
• bitcoin value increase somehow effecting it?
• more people in middlecoin and the block finding increase doesn't match the increase in the number of people funds are being distributed to?

Something else.

Thoughts?

JR

If the BTC price is rising then surely the BTC/ALT-Coin price has to slide the other way unless the ALT-Coin gains in value against BTC.  Look at Cryptogenicbullion (CGB) as an example.  It has recently halved it's block reward from 5 to 2.5 and the CGB/BTC price has risen making that coin more valuable.

I think we might be getting what looks like a lower amount of BTC, but the value of that against fiat has risen so it works out we are receiving the same/more in some cases.

Am I right with this thinking?

[Jriker1]

If the BTC price is rising then surely the BTC/ALT-Coin price has to slide the other way unless the ALT-Coin gains in value against BTC.  Look at Cryptogenicbullion (CGB) as an example.  It has recently halved it's block reward from 5 to 2.5 and the CGB/BTC price has risen making that coin more valuable.

I think we might be getting what looks like a lower amount of BTC, but the value of that against fiat has risen so it works out we are receiving the same/more in some cases.

Am I right with this thinking?

Sure others will chime in, however based on your logic, which I think is probably spot on, then holding onto your BTC for a while before you cash out could be dangerous. Could also be profitable but if you don't want to role the dice...  So if a BTC is going for $128 to $140 USD right now depending on who's selling, so we are getting less payout of alt coins, if the price goes back down to $90 would be a bit hit. You then still have the lesser amount of coins and becomes at a lesser value. Guess that's the nature of stock type concepts, just makes me rethink holding onto my BTC to long as opposed to selling them in smaller quantities.

JR

[cryptopi]

So what's going on with the overall alt coin ecosystem?  I fully believe h2o is above board so this has nothing to do with him. I keep adding more hash power and initially I see a nice boost in return. Then after time the value I used to bring in at 1 MH/s before is the same as I'm bringing in now at over 2 MH/s. Maybe even less. Is this:

• all alt coins are increasing difficulty so less returns?
• bitcoin value increase somehow effecting it?
• more people in middlecoin and the block finding increase doesn't match the increase in the number of people funds are being distributed to?

Something else.

Thoughts?

JR

There are several factors at play here. 

1) As stated by others, rising BTC prices can have a dampening effect on the ALT/BTC exchange rate of the alt currencies, which may or may not balance out in fiat (generally not, I would think).

2) Another significant factor is that the size of this pool is undermining some of its success. This is due to 2 factors listed below:

2A) If you look at the moment by moment transactions in the pool, you will see that the pool's logic does not have the appearance of only mining while there are profitable open bids for a coin. Rather, it mines a bit longer and the pool's trading logic attempts to sell the coins across a longer period of time so as not to dramatically affect the price received.  As hash rates increase, the overmining (if you can call it that, more like mining in excess of the high open bids) increases, and the pool tends hold more coins that take longer and longer to dispose of.  During this time, the coins are frequently dropping in value (due to point 1 above - the rise in BTC) and so eventually must be sold at a less profitable position that originally intended.  This is the inherent risk of mining in excess of open high (profitable) bids (which for a pool of this size, can be a very short time). If you watch your value closely (adding together all columns of your mining proceeds) you will see this frequent repricing of mined coins taking place (some due to this dropping price and some due to simple overstated pricing). Some of this is unavoidable, but it happens a lot at middlecoin. Not a terrible decision on the h20's part, but it will have this very side effect, which can get more pronounced as the pool size increases. The pool, in essence, bets on the future price of the coins it mines by holding out for a better price (waiting for bids to show up). Profitabililty would be higher if this were not done (in my opinion), but it would take a bit of programming. The current "hold out for a better price" strategy might be a little more successful in a declining BTC market, but is still unadvisable from my point of view, as no coins should be mined that are not convertible for a profit immediately given existing buy orders. The pool should lock in certain profits and move on. Also, some of this "overmining" is inevitable as it takes time for the coins to mature and prices can change.

2B) Another factor is that the very nature of the pool and its size keeps alt coins from getting very far out of whack (from a mining/profitability standpoint). Any that get too profitable quickly get beat back to the common denominator (~LTC profitability) as the pool mines them, and then the pool moves on to the next. In the earlier days of the pool, these anomalies took longer to correct due to the lower hash of the pool which led to greater anomalies and higher profits; now not so much.  The newer/cheaper coins are quickly repriced and the opportunities for a large pool like middlecoin are diminished.

Middlecoin is still a great pool, and no doubt there are additional factors, but off the top of my head the above listed factors play a significant role.
 

[h2odysee]

If you look at the moment by moment transactions in the pool, you will see that the pool's logic does not have the appearance of only mining while there are profitable open bids for a coin. Rather, it mines a bit longer and the pool's trading logic attempts to sell the coins across a longer period of time so as not to dramatically affect the price received.

The open bids are taken into account, when determining what coin to mine. So if there is 1 BTC of buy orders for 1000 CGB, and we mine 1000 CGB, it will look at the next highest buy order.

As for the trading logic selling coins over a period of time instead of dumping them all at once, I think that adds to our profit. Although I don't know for sure.

[cryptopi]

If you look at the moment by moment transactions in the pool, you will see that the pool's logic does not have the appearance of only mining while there are profitable open bids for a coin. Rather, it mines a bit longer and the pool's trading logic attempts to sell the coins across a longer period of time so as not to dramatically affect the price received.

The open bids are taken into account, when determining what coin to mine. So if there is 1 BTC of buy orders for 1000 CGB, and we mine 1000 CGB, it will look at the next highest buy order.

As for the trading logic selling coins over a period of time instead of dumping them all at once, I think that adds to our profit. Although I don't know for sure.

The issue is not whether you only mine "1 BTC of buy orders for 1000 CGB", but buy orders at what price? Do you only take into account buy orders that are more profitable than mining the next best currency, or which specific buy orders? I would strongly argue that only buy orders that are at a price near/above the point that represents the next best mining opportunity should be mined/filled, and should be done so immediately. These represent the highest profitability available in the market, period. Waiting to sell is risky business, as the arbitrage opportunity may be fleeting as others will also be looking to correct this market inefficiency. There are additional practical implementation details, but this is the essence of what in my opinion would be a best practice.

If your calculation only takes into account the most profitable (more profitable than the next best coin) buy offers and not all buy offers, then you are not overmining, but you are gambling a bit on the future price action of the coin. Could be risky business if BTC keeps going up, as you are on the wrong side of the trade. I agree that it can win under certain circumstances, but various of these coins are volatile and why take the risk?

[h2odysee]

The issue is not whether you only mine "1 BTC of buy orders for 1000 CGB", but buy orders at what price? Do you only take into account buy orders that are more profitable than mining the next best currency, or which specific buy orders? I would strongly argue that only buy orders that are at a price near/above the point that represents the next best mining opportunity should be mined/filled

I don't quite understand.

But the way I do it is this:

As we mine CGB, our CGB balance increases. When checking the CGB price, I discard the top X buy orders of CGB, where X is our balance plus the amount we'd mine in a few minutes. Then the next buy order on the list is the price I use.

I do this for every currency, so all the prices are "volume adjusted".

[hendo420]

We are currently 40 minutes late for today's payout. No rush just worried if something broke. lol

lol either I just reminded you or it was coincidence but payment just came through. lol

[h2odysee]

We are currently 40 minutes late for today's payout. No rush just worried if something broke. lol

Ah, I didn't notice that payouts didn't go through. I just ran them manually.

I withdrew the funds from the exchanges a little late today. I wish there was an easy way to automate that.

[cryptopi]

As we mine CGB, our CGB balance increases. When checking the CGB price, I discard the top X buy orders of CGB, where X is our balance plus the amount we'd mine in a few minutes. Then the next buy order on the list is the price I use.

The price you use for what specifically? The value of coins on hand when reporting miner proceeds? The value of new coins as they are mined before maturity? The value to compare against other currencies for mining profitability calculations? Please clarify.

I'm guessing, bit it sounds like you are saying that while mining coin A, you decide to keep mining coin A by comparing (every minute?) the price of the buy order for A that is X coins from the top of the buy order list (where X = on hand plus estimated proceeds from several minutes of mining), combined with coin difficulty, to determine if the current coin is better to continue to mine than other coins at their respective price/difficulty, using the same price methodology for the other coins? Is this correct? Also, what price do you use when reporting the freshly mined coin value to miners?