[ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com

[kalus]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

just wanted to point out this rock has kept my house and family safe from tigers for close to a decade.  

[Shaban]

My balance today is already higher than what I got paid out yesterday  

[FrankieSaysRelax]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

[zSprawl]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

Thanks... but he was only a small percentage of the pool, so unless more leave, one guy, regardless of size, does not change this.

[FrankieSaysRelax]

We have already noticed these differences.

It seems you can't estimate your payout only by taking some dudes' payouts with the same hashrate.

There are  so many parameters that you don't know from the server: accepted shares, stale shares (and btw do you submit your stale shares?), discarded works, gpus used, PSU, drivers, OS, settings in config files, mod miners, network connections...

I've been mining on 2 different servers (eu and east) these last days: I didn't notice huge differences (same coins mined at -almost- the same time on the 2 servers). I may be wrong but I don't think the differences depend on which server you are.

That just does not seem fair or right. Hardware should be irrelevant once the server accepts my work and tells me I have XX.XXX hashrate. The server is accepting (as verified in stats) 3.6mhash or more of my work an I get paid for less than peers that do the same work.  

I decided to split my rigs apart with one on a different address shortly after payout time.  The main rig (2.2mhash) is sitting at .013/.020 BTC overnight, the other rig (1.4mhash) got .0047/.0025

If youse got some latency, try adding --no-submit-stale to your .bat file. Ain't no use in chasing after shares you can't get if others can get em first because of better latency. h2o says to leave it on because the staled shares might be due to a coin switch but that's only 1 possible reason and if you're getting those type of reject rates, you're wasting hashing power chasing after stales.

[phaddie]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

just wanted to point out this rock has kept my house and family safe from tigers for close to a decade.  

*snicker*

[zSprawl]

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

just wanted to point out this rock has kept my house and family safe from tigers for close to a decade.  

*snicker*

Praise god!!

[FrankieSaysRelax]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

Thanks... but he was only a small percentage of the pool, so unless more leave, one guy, regardless of size, does not change this.

That makes absolutely no sense. So, you are to tell me, if one person doubled the hash rate of the group tomorrow that would not cause damage to the smaller miners? What matters is the total available opportunity for arbitrage - costs associates divided by hashes per second. If someone adds 10% or 20%, that lowers profitability for everyone in the pool. In this case, it even lowered the profitability for that miner over mining litecoin because his rig is simply too large to realize the benefits of the small margin that smaller miners benefit from. If he has an extra 1000 mhash to the pool and then leaves and the pool makes the same amount - that's more divided among less miners.

You must like to be sold a slice of pizza that is 1/16 of a 18" pie and not 1/8 of that same pie.

[kalus]

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

you're not accounting for the tradebot algorithm that optimizes based on exchanges.   H2o et al. occasionally intervene with manual trades as well.  

this is the part of the service we pay the 3% fee for.  we don't need to know how it's done, and since this site doesn't announce the coins we're mining for strategic reasons it would also make sense the tradebot is also proprietary.  the pool is just $hash/sec to the algorithm.  you can do the calculation based on the allusers page:  everyone gets their share based on their hashrate.  the numbers do not support disproportionate payouts across time for any individual.

All the people concerned about the 'unexchanged balance' shouldn't be.  it's just a bot making money while you sleep.  

[kalus]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

Thanks... but he was only a small percentage of the pool, so unless more leave, one guy, regardless of size, does not change this.

That makes absolutely no sense. So, you are to tell me, if one person doubled the hash rate of the group tomorrow that would not cause damage to the smaller miners? What matters is the total available opportunity for arbitrage - costs associates divided by hashes per second. If someone adds 10% or 20%, that lowers profitability for everyone in the pool. In this case, it even lowered the profitability for that miner over mining litecoin because his rig is simply too large to realize the benefits of the small margin that smaller miners benefit from. If he has an extra 1000 mhash to the pool and then leaves and the pool makes the same amount - that's more divided among less miners.

You must like to be sold a slice of pizza that is 1/16 of a 18" pie and not 1/8 of that same pie.

this is correct if you are talking pool vs. pool. middlecoin is operating as a single entity vs. all of the other groups of miners.  since mining is competitive, having larger miners in the pool gives us a better chance of finding blocks than a smaller pool.

within the pool, we get paid out a percentage of the pie.  the pie gets bigger when we add more mining power. 

[FrankieSaysRelax]

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

you're not accounting for the tradebot algorithm that optimizes based on exchanges.   H2o et al. occasionally intervene with manual trades as well.  

this is the part of the service we pay the 3% fee for.  we don't need to know how it's done, and since this site doesn't announce the coins we're mining for strategic reasons it would also make sense the tradebot is also proprietary.  the pool is just $hash/sec to the algorithm.  you can do the calculation based on the allusers page:  everyone gets their share based on their hashrate.  the numbers do not support disproportionate payouts across time for any individual.

All the people concerned about the 'unexchanged balance' shouldn't be.  it's just a bot making money while you sleep.  

There is limited opportunity to profit off arbitrage in the alt coin market. The most hashpower, the lower that margin becomes for everyone in the pool. Basic common sense here. If pool becomes so large that trades need to be put in manually as a result of the offer being too high for the market, the algorithm becomes less and less profitable. Not to mention the difficulty rate increases on the coins being mined as a result.

[kalus]

There is limited opportunity to profit off arbitrage in the alt coin market. The most hashpower, the lower that margin becomes for everyone in the pool. Basic common sense here. If pool becomes so large that trades need to be put in manually as a result of the offer being too high for the market, the algorithm becomes less and less profitable. Not to mention the difficulty rate increases on the coins being mined as a result.

the tradebot is a black box.  we don't know how it works, and we aren't going to find out.  

look at the unexchanged graph - it does not decrease or increase linearly with time.  there are trades taking place throughout the day.  and the way they calculate this is kept proprietary for a reason. 

multipool.us gives you all the coins and leaves you to deal with cryptsy.  you are free to write your own algorithm to optimize profits for your specific hash rate.  

[FrankieSaysRelax]

wow since that 1000mhs rig was taken off line, my balances are increasing much quicker and i'm having much less rejected shares. Wherever that chinamen is, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Um, the two aren't related... correlation doesn't imply causation.

The fluctuations in volatility of alt coins that make this pool profitable are partly based on how many are take advantage of the small arbitrage that exists. Throwing more hooks into a small pond isn't going to increase the amount of fish in the pond. All it does is slow down the fertility rate and thus the pond can no longer feed as many in the village.

Thanks... but he was only a small percentage of the pool, so unless more leave, one guy, regardless of size, does not change this.

That makes absolutely no sense. So, you are to tell me, if one person doubled the hash rate of the group tomorrow that would not cause damage to the smaller miners? What matters is the total available opportunity for arbitrage - costs associates divided by hashes per second. If someone adds 10% or 20%, that lowers profitability for everyone in the pool. In this case, it even lowered the profitability for that miner over mining litecoin because his rig is simply too large to realize the benefits of the small margin that smaller miners benefit from. If he has an extra 1000 mhash to the pool and then leaves and the pool makes the same amount - that's more divided among less miners.

You must like to be sold a slice of pizza that is 1/16 of a 18" pie and not 1/8 of that same pie.

this is correct if you are talking pool vs. pool. middlecoin is operating as a single entity vs. all of the other groups of miners.  since mining is competitive, having larger miners in the pool gives us a better chance of finding blocks than a smaller pool.

within the pool, we get paid out a percentage of the pie.  the pie gets bigger when we add more mining power.  

It is more a matter of convenience. The opportunities are limited and the margin is low. Centralizing the switching and conversion of the coins to BTC is what people here are paying for. Theoretically speaking, it is more profitable to mine the coins yourself and convert them; However, the time it times to conduct that process would dictate someone who automates that would get the most users. That doesn't increase the opportunities though - especially if the blocks you find are just adding more and more offers on the exchanges. Flood the market with supply and rates go down.

There is also the difference in time between when the coin is determined to be profitable and when the coin is sold. Too much hash power can result in pump and dumps that would make the alt coin market undesirable. Supply of miners effects price substantially - especially when it is auto-convert.

[kalus]

It is more a matter of convenience. The opportunities are limited and the margin is low. Centralizing the switching and conversion of the coins to BTC is what people here are paying for. Theoretically speaking, it is more profitable to mine the coins yourself and convert them; However, the time it times to conduct that process would dictate someone who automates that would get the most users. That doesn't increase the opportunities though

Yeah this is not that kind of pool.

[zSprawl]

That makes absolutely no sense. So, you are to tell me, if one person doubled the hash rate of the group tomorrow that would not cause damage to the smaller miners? What matters is the total available opportunity for arbitrage - costs associates divided by hashes per second. If someone adds 10% or 20%, that lowers profitability for everyone in the pool. In this case, it even lowered the profitability for that miner over mining litecoin because his rig is simply too large to realize the benefits of the small margin that smaller miners benefit from. If he has an extra 1000 mhash to the pool and then leaves and the pool makes the same amount - that's more divided among less miners.

You must like to be sold a slice of pizza that is 1/16 of a 18" pie and not 1/8 of that same pie.

Our current hashrate is 14.7 GH/s. Are you saying 1 GH/s somehow doubles the size of our pool? I must have missed that math class...

[FrankieSaysRelax]

The chinamen was speaking of 4gh/s he had. Yes, that would lead to a decrease in earnings (about 28% to be exact) Now, if 3 or 4 others decide to have the same idea they will learn what this chinamen learned - the margins are only profitable under specific circumstances and that is met when hashing power < opportunity. Once you have more hashing power than the opportunity for it, you are left with coins you must dump below market value - that makes it less profitable for everyone. Why do you think the guy left? He realized that in such a small market like alt coin arbitrage, he is his own worse enemy with that much hash power.

The margins are small enough as it is for people with 4 or 6 mhs. This is like opening 25 shoe stores on the same block. What do you think happens to the earnings of the shoe sellers? They all earn less. We're not working in a market where demand is infinite or determined by you. The prices are set by natural market forces.

[kalus]

The chinamen was speaking of 4mh he had. Yes, that would lead to a decrease in earnings. Now, if 3 or 4 others decide to have the same idea they will learn what this chinamen learned - the margins are only profitable under specific circumstances and that is met when hashing power < opportunity. Once you have more hashing power than the opportunity for it, you are left with coins you must dump below market value - that makes it less profitable for everyone. Why do you think the guy left? He realized that in such a small market like alt coin arbitrage, he is his own worse enemy with that much hash power.

you do realize 'chinamen' makes you sound as uneducated as if you still called people 'negroes'.

and you realize that if you add 4mh to the pie, the pie gets 4mh bigger.  it's not a finite pie from inside the pool. 

[zSprawl]

The chinamen was speaking of 4gh/s he had. Yes, that would lead to a decrease in earnings. Now, if 3 or 4 others decide to have the same idea they will learn what this chinamen learned - the margins are only profitable under specific circumstances and that is met when hashing power < opportunity. Once you have more hashing power than the opportunity for it, you are left with coins you must dump below market value - that makes it less profitable for everyone. Why do you think the guy left? He realized that in such a small market like alt coin arbitrage, he is his own worse enemy with that much hash power.

The margins are small enough as it is for people with 4 or 6 mhs. This is like opening 25 shoe stores on the same block. What do you think happens to the earnings of the shoe sellers? They all earn less. We're not working in a market where demand is infinite or determined by you. The prices are set by natural market forces.

I completely agree if we have multiple 6 GH/s people join up. But one guy with 1 GH/s of hashpower does not automatically equate we get better payouts. I for one have had fine payouts before and after his departure. Should I automatically assume your computer is broken? Once again, correlation does not imply causation.

[kalus]

The margins are small enough as it is for people with 4 or 6 mhs. This is like opening 25 shoe stores on the same block. What do you think happens to the earnings of the shoe sellers? They all earn less. We're not working in a market where demand is infinite or determined by you. The prices are set by natural market forces.

This is the fault of the altcoin market.  this is nothing to do with optimal timing of trades.  welcome to 10+ new altcoins a day.  

i'm here becuase i'm sick of installing wallets for new coins to optimize my margin.  I don't ever want to open a cryptsy account.  my time is worth more than that.

[pitobread]

We have already noticed these differences.

It seems you can't estimate your payout only by taking some dudes' payouts with the same hashrate.

There are  so many parameters that you don't know from the server: accepted shares, stale shares (and btw do you submit your stale shares?), discarded works, gpus used, PSU, drivers, OS, settings in config files, mod miners, network connections...

I've been mining on 2 different servers (eu and east) these last days: I didn't notice huge differences (same coins mined at -almost- the same time on the 2 servers). I may be wrong but I don't think the differences depend on which server you are.

That just does not seem fair or right. Hardware should be irrelevant once the server accepts my work and tells me I have XX.XXX hashrate. The server is accepting (as verified in stats) 3.6mhash or more of my work an I get paid for less than peers that do the same work.  

I decided to split my rigs apart with one on a different address shortly after payout time.  The main rig (2.2mhash) is sitting at .013/.020 BTC overnight, the other rig (1.4mhash) got .0047/.0025

https://i.imgur.com/7w1StXs.png

If youse got some latency, try adding --no-submit-stale to your .bat file. Ain't no use in chasing after shares you can't get if others can get em first because of better latency. h2o says to leave it on because the staled shares might be due to a coin switch but that's only 1 possible reason and if you're getting those type of reject rates, you're wasting hashing power chasing after stales.

25-35ms on middlecoin west/middlecoin server