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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1042595 times)
zumzero
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September 06, 2013, 08:40:33 AM
 #5481

Everything written below is on page 3 of this thread and makes for interesting reading.

I understand it to mean that Labcoin have chosen to use older technology because they can get it to market quicker and take advantage of the lower difficulty in terms of mining.

That makes sense but I've got a niggle.  Surely this is a short term strategy and an admitance that the intention is to take as much bitcoin as possible in as short a space of time until the 'next gen' miners take over.

If there is any truth in my assertion the question, I suppose, is for how long can LC maintain enough of the global hashing rate to justify it's existence, if at all?

And what is this about 'locked shares' - Are they saying, "we won't sell our shares, but we are allowed to sell 25% of them"?

Perhaps the 'locked share' issue ties in nicely with the perceived short term smash & grab ideology.

I am trying to do my 'due diligence'  before deciding to buy or not.  Right now, I feel I'd need some pretty good answers to my points as well as a clearer line of communication with the folks up top before thinking about jumping in.




Can you elaborate on why you are going with the 65nm process?

With ActiveMining proceeding with a 28nm process, how do you plan to compete?

The short answer here is that we simply do not believe that investing heavily in the absolute "bleeding edge" of technology is wise or necessary to achieve competitive results or profitability.

Labcoin is not a project that is primarily focused on developing the absolutely most "high tech" ASIC possible, but rather to reach the market quickly with the best hash rate per invested dollar.

If you had to choose between ordering a high density mining chip from butterfly labs or a well designed multicore chip based on a technically older design with lower density from Bitfury, what would you choose right now? (Not to mention a year ago, when Butterfly Labs started their process).

With parallel development teams and established contacts with foundries and manufacturing plants in China, we simply see more profitability in developing and producing chips and mining equipment based on tried and available technologies, then risking investor funds and delays in targeting next generation tech.

I hope this at least somewhat answers your question.




28nm isn't next gen tech, it's current gen. Also, BFL use 65nm whereas BitFury use 55nm. The comparison you should be making is between KnC on 28nm and BitFury on 55nm which have similare efficiency.

As for the question of what you would choose, I'd say the one which provides the best value, regardless of process used or the efficiency of the ASIC. An inefficient ASIC priced low enough can offer far more value than a higher priced, highly efficient ASIC.

I'm looking forward to the IPO.


You are of course absolutely correct. The comparison I was after was that Butterly Labs chose to develop an ASIC based on what when they started over 1 year ago was "next gen" at the time (I would argue that until KNC or any other ASIC provider shows an actual working unit/chip based on 28nm, it is still next generation), while Bitfury chose to develop using current generation technology (more or less) and has managed to reach market at almost the same time as Butterfly Labs, at a more attractive price point and with seemingly better availability of chips.

Between the two, its hard to not (as a customer or investor/share holder) want to say that The choice of developing a more effective chip based on available technology carries less risk, and plenty of opportunity for profitability without taking the risk involved in developing for "next gen".

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September 06, 2013, 09:35:00 AM
 #5482

"f there is any truth in my assertion the question, I suppose, is for how long can LC maintain enough of the global hashing rate to justify it's existence, if at all?"

They are also developing new chip sizes Smiley
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September 06, 2013, 09:40:54 AM
 #5483

"f there is any truth in my assertion the question, I suppose, is for how long can LC maintain enough of the global hashing rate to justify it's existence, if at all?"

They are also developing new chip sizes Smiley

Thanks,  I need to read up more obviously...  Smiley

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September 06, 2013, 09:50:38 AM
 #5484

"f there is any truth in my assertion the question, I suppose, is for how long can LC maintain enough of the global hashing rate to justify it's existence, if at all?"

They are also developing new chip sizes Smiley

Thanks,  I need to read up more obviously...  Smiley

In case you haven't heard yet, LC plan on having 200-300 TH/s worth of 65 nm chips this year.
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September 06, 2013, 09:56:05 AM
 #5485

Actually transferring more BTC's to btct. I'm sure you guys cannot hold for 6 days. Let me put some bid walls. Wait for me before the dumps. Thanks.

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abuelau
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September 06, 2013, 10:15:15 AM
 #5486

Can someone remind me what LC's plan is in terms of hashing power? I can't find it anymore. What I know is:

1) 3-4 TH/s in September 2013 using the 130nm chips
2) 200-300 TH/s by December 2013 using the 65nm chips

But I also seem to remember that between #1 and #2 there was something. What was the goal in TH/s for the 130nm chips for Oct/Nov?


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September 06, 2013, 10:23:12 AM
 #5487

Can someone remind me what LC's plan is in terms of hashing power? I can't find it anymore. What I know is:

1) 3-4 TH/s in September 2013 using the 130nm chips
2) 200-300 TH/s by December 2013 using the 65nm chips

But I also seem to remember that between #1 and #2 there was something. What was the goal in TH/s for the 130nm chips for Oct/Nov?



50 TH/s using the 130nm chips is due mid October.
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September 06, 2013, 10:25:47 AM
 #5488

It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.

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September 06, 2013, 10:45:42 AM
 #5489

Thanks Guys.

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works. But if we really get the 50TH/s in October, we will be in an excellent position, I believe the share price should be around 0.01 if that happens given that we would be controlling about 3% of total network hash rate and generating about 0.0002 BTC/share/month in dividends.

If we really get 200TH/s by December, we should have about 6% of the total hash rate and a share price of 0.002 is not impossible...

Good.

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September 06, 2013, 10:55:30 AM
 #5490

The bot that duplicates your bid 0.0001 lower is completely exploitable.

You can set it to make an ask of whatever size you'd like to buy, at the lowest price, then cancel your ask. It's ask stays there for a moment.
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September 06, 2013, 10:57:52 AM
 #5491

Thanks Guys.

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works. But if we really get the 50TH/s in October, we will be in an excellent position, I believe the share price should be around 0.01 if that happens given that we would be controlling about 3% of total network hash rate and generating about 0.0002 BTC/share/month in dividends.

If we really get 200TH/s by December, we should have about 6% of the total hash rate and a share price of 0.002 is not impossible...

Good.

Share price will be higher than 0.01 BTC after the 3-4 TH/s comes online. Just look at how ActM rose to around 0.0065 simply based on confirmation of the eASIC deal and that miners would be ready mid-October. With LC actually mining, there will be a significant rise in the share price.
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September 06, 2013, 10:58:59 AM
 #5492

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works.
No it does not matter how much hash they have if they cannot provide proof that they have made the
chips and they are not buying hardware from other suppliers.
Just look into Asicminer thread or Bitfury thread how much proof was provided any you can get better
picture.
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September 06, 2013, 11:02:27 AM
 #5493

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works.
No it does not matter how much hash they have if they cannot provide proof that they have made the
chips and they are not buying hardware from other suppliers.
Just look into Asicminer thread or Bitfury thread how much proof was provided any you can get better
picture.

LOL.  You're becoming a real clown.

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September 06, 2013, 11:03:30 AM
 #5494

It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.

I don't know why you find that mysterious. Marketing pretty much always overestimates everything except price.
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September 06, 2013, 11:04:16 AM
 #5495

The bot that duplicates your bid 0.0001 lower is completely exploitable.

You can set it to make an ask of whatever size you'd like to buy, at the lowest price, then cancel your ask. It's ask stays there for a moment.

Yes that would be sweet if you wanted to buy. Hoewever it's not doing the same thing on the ASK end. So Right now you have someone duplicating all sells but not buys. NOT GOOD IF YOU ARE BETTING THE PRICE WILL GO UP! This pig is finished.
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September 06, 2013, 11:08:35 AM
 #5496



I think it's hilarious that since they announced everything is on track the price stopped being stable and started drifting down.

Some shrewd, shrewd traders here.
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September 06, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
 #5497

Thanks Guys.

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works. But if we really get the 50TH/s in October, we will be in an excellent position, I believe the share price should be around 0.01 if that happens given that we would be controlling about 3% of total network hash rate and generating about 0.0002 BTC/share/month in dividends.

If we really get 200TH/s by December, we should have about 6% of the total hash rate and a share price of 0.002 is not impossible...

Good.

Share price will be higher than 0.01 BTC after the 3-4 TH/s comes online. Just look at how ActM rose to around 0.0065 simply based on confirmation of the eASIC deal and that miners would be ready mid-October. With LC actually mining, there will be a significant rise in the share price.

Maybe, but my impression is that at that time there was a lot of BTC looking for investment, and not many investment options. Since then, lots of new companies IPO, including Labcoin. I think that 0.01 is the limit until we get the actual 50TH/s online in October and all the trolls cannot even question if the chips exist, if they are for real, etc. etc.

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September 06, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
 #5498

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works.
No it does not matter how much hash they have if they cannot provide proof that they have made the
chips and they are not buying hardware from other suppliers.
Just look into Asicminer thread or Bitfury thread how much proof was provided any you can get better
picture.
LOL.  You're becoming a real clown.

All you can come up with is an Ad hominem attack?
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September 06, 2013, 11:17:20 AM
 #5499

Thanks Guys.

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works. But if we really get the 50TH/s in October, we will be in an excellent position, I believe the share price should be around 0.01 if that happens given that we would be controlling about 3% of total network hash rate and generating about 0.0002 BTC/share/month in dividends.

If we really get 200TH/s by December, we should have about 6% of the total hash rate and a share price of 0.002 is not impossible...

Good.

Share price will be higher than 0.01 BTC after the 3-4 TH/s comes online. Just look at how ActM rose to around 0.0065 simply based on confirmation of the eASIC deal and that miners would be ready mid-October. With LC actually mining, there will be a significant rise in the share price.

Maybe, but my impression is that at that time there was a lot of BTC looking for investment, and not many investment options. Since then, lots of new companies IPO, including Labcoin. I think that 0.01 is the limit until we get the actual 50TH/s online in October and all the trolls cannot even question if the chips exist, if they are for real, etc. etc.

This only happened the 2 days ago and is why ActM's price is still above 0.004. People are basically just waiting for confirmation that LC is legit and on schedule. When that happens, you'll see a lot of people sell their other shares to buy LC hoping to cash in on the inevitable price rise.
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September 06, 2013, 11:17:47 AM
 #5500

It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.

130nm chips?  Is this a typo?  Even Pentium 4 was 90nm and that generated a lot of heat! Wow.

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