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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1039663 times)
Ytterbium
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September 05, 2013, 10:44:07 PM
 #5461

Au contrair. You seem to have the misunderstanding.

There are several aspects to TA and the reasons as to why it works. I agree there will be limited traders acting on chart patterns - but those who do will be the bigger players.

This is completely delusional.  You're just assuming that the people with the most money are the ones who share your moronic ideas about TA.  It's a common refrain that the "big" money is all doing TA.  But only reason the "big money" would do TA is if they thought other big money people were doing TA.  And there is no reason for that to be the case, because TA is retarded.

Secondly this market is too liquid for "big money" to make any "big moves".  People with big positions aren't sitting there trying to trade tiny chunks for a few shatoshi here and there based on the "chart" because any move they make is going to cause a major price jump or fall, swamping any "signal" in the chart completely.

They certainly aren't going to care about what tiny traders are doing a few dozen share at a time, why would they?

And seriously, how large of a position would one need to have to be a "big player" in this market, exactly?

But the "chart analysis" crap,....is idiotic,

Your view of something you don't understand is to call it idiotic. I wouldn't trust your judgement on anything - including the prospects of LabCoin.

Then don't.  I'm not interested in helping idiots make money.

I don't know much about Voodoo or Astrology or tea-leave reading but I don't exactly feel like I need to know much about it to write them off. I know enough about the ludicrously named "technical analysis" (which is totally non-technical and barely 'analysis') to know it's total B.S.

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Stuartuk
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September 05, 2013, 10:52:44 PM
 #5462

TA is retarded.

Just wow.

There is about 5Mill USD invested in these LabCoin shares and some holders have 50-100k USD worth. You don't think that is big money? You don't think these guys know what they are doing?

No-one should be following this mans advice.
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September 05, 2013, 11:29:24 PM
 #5463

This tread if full of geniuses


Ytterbium
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September 06, 2013, 02:27:22 AM
 #5464

Seems like every stock was going down.  Probably because the site was down.

TA is retarded.

Just wow.

There is about 5Mill USD invested in these LabCoin shares and some holders have 50-100k USD worth. You don't think that is big money? You don't think these guys know what they are doing?

No-one should be following this mans advice.

"Technical Analysis" which is really just astrology with charts and has little scientific or mathematical basis, if you try to apply it to these tiny markets.  In the real world a "big player" is someone with billions of dollars, or at least hundreds of millions.  Here it apparently means someone with 400 BTC.  If you tried to sell a 400 BTC share position in one shot you'd lower the price to 0.0028.  Even if you tried to do it slowly over a day, you'd still greatly reduce the price. That's the way these markets work.  Any individual big move is going to have a major effect on the price.

So in order to buy this idea that "big players" with "hundreds of BTC" are sitting around staring at charts, it would mean they were day trading a few BTC at a time in order to maybe make 0.1 or 0.2 BTC profit.   But why would they even bother? It's likely their plan is to hold the stock and make dividends.

People who have taken major stakes in this company are mostly just sitting there with it and holding.

The thing is, even if you just want to sell a couple thousand shares, you have to either eat the bid wall and sell at a cheaper price, or else set an ask wall and just wait, possibly for a long time (and move that ask wall around to keep it at the bottom)   If you try to "time" the market you need to sell at the bid price and buy at the ask price and if you do that a lot you'd just burn money.

Even during that huge spike and fall with activemining the other day - the trade volume was only maybe 25k shares (I could look it up by it's half way scrolled off the history).  That's on the way up and back down.  That's just 25BTC.  Not a lot for someone with a position of hundreds of BTC, and that was a really unusual situation.  Most of the time, there just isn't enough volume to make much money day trading these stocks (unless you get some early information, obviously)

I get the feeling stuartuk is one of those people who puts in bids for 5, 30, 50 shares you see at the top of the order books  

wickedgoodtrader
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September 06, 2013, 04:52:43 AM
 #5465

What is the deal with every time I place a sell order.. an identical sell order is created .0001 less then mine. It appears this is happening to everyone. If you look at the sell list there are 10 sells that are exactly duplicated in amount .0001 less. I know usually it does it for 1 sell.. but the 10 lowest? Someone is looking to unload without crashing the market. I'm a professional poker player and the way these guys have conducted business such as updates anytime the price is dropping, makes me call major bluff. Especially when they come out and add extra shit like bloomberg and cnn want interviews and they are going to have way more hashing power online then expected when they haven't even put 1 th up. LOL.. give me a break.. but thanks for the profits!

I was only planning on selling half of my position but let it all go, this was a snap fold (or call I guess if you talking about bluffing).

Does anyone have an explanation why the closest to the money sells are being replicated and underbid by .0001? Gonna be pretty hard to rise in price like that!
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September 06, 2013, 04:53:50 AM
 #5466

Au contrair. You seem to have the misunderstanding.

There are several aspects to TA and the reasons as to why it works. I agree there will be limited traders acting on chart patterns - but those who do will be the bigger players.

This is completely delusional.  You're just assuming that the people with the most money are the ones who share your moronic ideas about TA.  It's a common refrain that the "big" money is all doing TA.  But only reason the "big money" would do TA is if they thought other big money people were doing TA.  And there is no reason for that to be the case, because TA is retarded.

Secondly this market is too liquid for "big money" to make any "big moves".  People with big positions aren't sitting there trying to trade tiny chunks for a few shatoshi here and there based on the "chart" because any move they make is going to cause a major price jump or fall, swamping any "signal" in the chart completely.

They certainly aren't going to care about what tiny traders are doing a few dozen share at a time, why would they?

And seriously, how large of a position would one need to have to be a "big player" in this market, exactly?

But the "chart analysis" crap,....is idiotic,

Your view of something you don't understand is to call it idiotic. I wouldn't trust your judgement on anything - including the prospects of LabCoin.

Then don't.  I'm not interested in helping idiots make money.

I don't know much about Voodoo or Astrology or tea-leave reading but I don't exactly feel like I need to know much about it to write them off. I know enough about the ludicrously named "technical analysis" (which is totally non-technical and barely 'analysis') to know it's total B.S.


Agree.
Ytterbium
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September 06, 2013, 05:15:47 AM
 #5467


But the "chart analysis" crap,....is idiotic,

Your view of something you don't understand is to call it idiotic. I wouldn't trust your judgement on anything - including the prospects of LabCoin.

Then don't.  I'm not interested in helping idiots make money.

I don't know much about Voodoo or Astrology or tea-leave reading but I don't exactly feel like I need to know much about it to write them off. I know enough about the ludicrously named "technical analysis" (which is totally non-technical and barely 'analysis') to know it's total B.S.


Agree.

And just to note: While I did give a basic prediction - that both ActM and Labcoin are way undervalued (which stuartuk should actually like) - if you read closely you can see that I was not giving specific price guidance.

Rather I was explaining the mathematical formula you would use if you had p.d.f (as in, probability density function, not a portable document format file) for various possible future hashrates (both for labcoin and the overall network)

I specifically said I was giving a simplified example, with a very simple PDF (only three possibilities, a total scam or failure with 0% of the network, and two non-scam possibility where they get either 1 or 5% of the network, and if they are valued the same way ASICMiner is)

The thing to understand is that I was giving the math. Anyone can take that math and plug in their own estimates for the likelihood of various possible network percentages and their likelihood of it being a scam.

And here's the thing about math.  Math is universal, it's the same for everyone.  Math is not an opinion and it's either wrong or right. I gave multiple examples, including ones where the stock is actually over-valued, as well as examples where the expected prices is exactly what it currently is. (Because, unlike SHA-256, these are not one-way functions, and you can reverse them Grin )

If the math is wrong, then anyone should be able to point out the error and it will be obvious to all. Including me.  Just point out the error.

If you disagree with the estimates I've entered, that's totally fine. As I said at no point did I say that I was sure those values were right, those are just simple examples. And I gave examples for what I thought were reasonable good and bad scenarios, as well as examples where the price was overvalued, or valued exactly correctly.

I wasn't trying to say my oppinoin was correct, or where the stock was headed, I was simply trying to illustrate how people could figure it out on their own, using simple grade-school arithmetic (using a discretized versions of formulas that would involve multiple integrals over topological surfaces in vector spaces in the 'full' continuous versions Grin)

I don't have a problem if people don't trust my estimates -- because they're not even estimates. They're just examples of formulas that anyone can use on their own with their own assumptions to see what the price should be.

If people want to ignore that because of my views about "chartological voodoo" they are certainly free to do so.

And anyway, I think both Labcoin and ActM are undervalued so I don't really see why ActM fanboys would even have a problem with it...

What is the deal with every time I place a sell order.. an identical sell order is created .0001 less then mine. It appears this is happening to everyone. If you look at the sell list there are 10 sells that are exactly duplicated in amount .0001 less. I know usually it does it for 1 sell.. but the 10 lowest? Someone is looking to unload without crashing the market. I'm a professional poker player and the way these guys have conducted business such as updates anytime the price is dropping, makes me call major bluff. Especially when they come out and add extra shit like bloomberg and cnn want interviews and they are going to have way more hashing power online then expected when they haven't even put 1 th up. LOL.. give me a break.. but thanks for the profits!

I was only planning on selling half of my position but let it all go, this was a snap fold (or call I guess if you talking about bluffing).

Does anyone have an explanation why the closest to the money sells are being replicated and underbid by .0001? Gonna be pretty hard to rise in price like that!


First of all, whenever I place an order, I place for 0.0001 less then whatever order is about the same size as mine.  I don't pay too much attention to orders in the 10, 20 shares.  We're talking about $1 or $2 there. At that point, who cares?

Second of all, there are definitely bots in play.  I've noticed you can get a bot to push up it's price until it reaches a threshold where it will just pull it's order. I think the way they work is that the owner will enter a 'maximum' price they're willing to pay, and the bot will adjust the price until it hits that max price, so that they can buy for as low as possible.

In some cases I'll push a bot's price up to it's max, then fill it's order, just to fuck with the owner Grin

I've thought about writing a bot-fucking-with bot but as I said, the volume on these markets is so low there's just not much point in putting in the effort - you just won't make much money.

In my case, the bids are mostly too small for me to bother worrying about. If someone is going to buy or sell enough for me to have my order filled, they'll eat through the bot's bid fairly quickly.

(And if you think this is unfair - remember it's not poker.  In the "real world" probably the vast majority of trades are executed by "High-frequency trading" or "Blackbox" systems - basically bots coded by the banks, and collocated right next at the exchanges in order to execute trades as quickly as possible)

demzie
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September 06, 2013, 05:18:24 AM
 #5468

Almost Smiley Comming close now!

Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-12+18:00:00UTC
redbeans2012
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September 06, 2013, 05:51:09 AM
 #5469

Almost Smiley Comming close now!

Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-12+18:00:00UTC


My prediction is the clock runs out... everyone panics.. the swede buys up cheap shares.. then comes out with news.

 Cheesy
Ytterbium
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September 06, 2013, 05:56:59 AM
 #5470

Almost Smiley Comming close now!

Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-12+18:00:00UTC


My prediction is the clock runs out... everyone panics.. the swede buys up cheap shares.. then comes out with news.

 Cheesy

It's possible.  I think I'd better deposit some more btc in order to snap up those cheap shares Grin

carpetbagger
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September 06, 2013, 06:50:33 AM
 #5471

Was there actually an announcement that narrowed it right down to the second? The time on the countdown will be something like 4am in China.

Keep clam & hodl on
creativex
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September 06, 2013, 06:52:42 AM
 #5472

Was there actually an announcement that narrowed it right down to the second? The time on the countdown will be something like 4am in China.

No and if there was Labcoin would miss it anyway.

carpetbagger
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September 06, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
 #5473

Was there actually an announcement that narrowed it right down to the second? The time on the countdown will be something like 4am in China.

No and if there was Labcoin would miss it anyway.

I tend to agree. Can only judge them on their previous actions.

Keep clam & hodl on
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September 06, 2013, 07:01:19 AM
 #5474

It was the 10th that clock is wrong
carpetbagger
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September 06, 2013, 07:12:50 AM
 #5475

mining will start no later than 10 September

Keep clam & hodl on
BitCsByBit
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September 06, 2013, 07:15:40 AM
 #5476

10th September @ what time and in which time zone??

There is really no point for having a clock here as all it will do is create anxiety for no benefit.

Tipsy jar: 1HgfLMXiJQj9KZ7abLRh9rWuR7dgeSyub4
Ytterbium
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September 06, 2013, 07:23:00 AM
 #5477

Labcoin should really schedule when they're going to do these things.  Earnings reports and calls on wallstreet are scheduled in advance for a reason.

demzie
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September 06, 2013, 07:25:22 AM
 #5478

It was the 10th that clock is wrong

how about 24 hours timezone buffer..
how about 24 hours mining before dividend can be calculated Smiley
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September 06, 2013, 07:56:55 AM
 #5479

Is this a good long term investment or is it just for short term profit, suitable for flippers and day traders?

I am not skilled enough to day trade so I would need a good long term prospect if I am to sell up my ActM shares.

What is the clock all about?  Isn't that asking for a big fail??

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demzie
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September 06, 2013, 08:27:08 AM
 #5480

Is this a good long term investment or is it just for short term profit, suitable for flippers and day traders?

I am not skilled enough to day trade so I would need a good long term prospect if I am to sell up my ActM shares.

What is the clock all about?  Isn't that asking for a big fail??

Daytrade now.. When clock ends, go for long term Smiley
When clock ends they start hashing..
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