CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s

[VolanicEruptor]

Hashfast is also a generation behind Cointerra..
Hashfast SHOULD be out faster, since the cost/GH is much much higher. 
Anyways, I want Hashfast to succeed because I"m invested in Icedrill, but this comparison is dumb.. they aren't competing in the same market. 

You don't see us waving around eruptor blades, "hey look, friedcat delivered wayyy before you guys!"
 

[1714812708]

1714812708

[DeathAndTaxes]

Hashfast is also a generation behind Cointerra..

?  Both use 28nm, both use large multi-GH dies, both use watercooling (made by the same company) to handle the thermal load, both have comparable power efficiency.
That is a generation behind?  

That being said iCEBREAKER is just a tool.  HF completely fucked over its early customers (himself included) and it remains to be seen exactly when any customer will get product in their hands producing revenue. So the idea that he holds them out as some kind of superior champion is well ... just stupid.

[iCEBREAKER]

Hashfast is also a generation behind Cointerra..
Hashfast SHOULD be out faster, since the cost/GH is much much higher.  
Anyways, I want Hashfast to succeed because I"m invested in Icedrill, but this comparison is dumb.. they aren't competing in the same market.  

You don't see us waving around eruptor blades, "hey look, friedcat delivered wayyy before you guys!"

Comparing the two companies' 3rd gen 28nm ASICs is a perfectly valid exercise.  Friedcat is irrelevant, because his blades are 1st gen.

Please provide factual evidence to support your opinion that "Hashfast is a generation behind Cointerra."

Oh wait, you can't.  Do you even understand what a "generation" means in the context of ASICs?

HashFast is much further along with their 4th gen, sub-28nm chip than Cointerra:

http://www.coindesk.com/hashfast-tapes-out-400-ghsec-28-nm-mining-chip/

 Published on September 9, 2013

[HashFast] is already well into development for its second-generation chip, which uses a FinFet design. FinFet uses 3D structures, in which the microscopic transistors on the chip rise above the planar substrate on the chip. This gives them more volume than a traditional transistor gate, which enables them to conduct electricity more effectively, reducing the necessary voltage and increasing switching performance. The result is a faster, lower-power chip.  “It’s the most aggressive design available in our time schedules,” said Barber, who believes he’ll be taping out this chip in the fourth quarter. He wouldn’t say what process node the design used, but CoinDesk notes that last year, TSMC announced plans for a 16 nm FinFet capability in early 2014.

Cointerra has barely hired the team for theirs, while HashFast should tape-out in a month or two.  

[VolanicEruptor]

Hashfast is also a generation behind Cointerra..

?  Both use 28nm, both use large multi-GH dies, both use watercooling (made by the same company) to handle the thermal load, both have comparable power efficiency.
That is a generation behind?  

That being said iCEBREAKER is just a tool.  HF completely fucked over its early customers (himself included) and it remains to be seen exactly when any customer will get product in their hands producing revenue. So the idea that he holds them out as some kind of superior champion is well ... just stupid.

Right now I'm looking at Cost/$ and I see $6/GH for Hashfast and $3/GH for Cointerra.
With a doubling network hash rate every month, HASHFAST would HAVE to be a month earlier than Cointerra just to compete on the same level. 

[iCEBREAKER]

That being said iCEBREAKER is just a tool.  HF completely fucked over its early customers and it remains to be seen exactly when they will get their very late product in their hands.

Calm down D&T.  This is just an internet forum and you should lighten up.   

HashFast hasn't done anything to its early customers except work their asses off to make us the best Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

No product is late until it fails to ship by Dec 31.

You of all people know better than to fixate on the most optimistic earliest physically possible (IE initially "anticipated") ship date.

Man up and take some personal responsibility.  You don't get huge potential reward without commensurate risk.

Stop whining and demanding HashFast put you in a win-win situation at their expense.   

[cedivad]

HashFast hasn't done anything to its early customers except work their asses off to make us the best Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

So how do you classify stealing by promising delivery times they knew would have not been met even in the best case scenario?

[iCEBREAKER]

Right now I'm looking at Cost/$ and I see $6/GH for Hashfast and $3/GH for Cointerra.
With a doubling network hash rate every month, HASHFAST would HAVE to be a month earlier than Cointerra just to compete on the same level.  

In other words, no, you don't understand the definition of "generation" in the context of integrated circuits.

$6/GH from a real HashFast chip is a much better value than $3/GH from Cointerra's vaporware.  Being months behind HashFast doesn't magically make CoinTerra's chip any more next-gen than LabKen's.    

BTW, I responded to your PM requesting my wallet address.  Are you going to send me a Xmas present?  

[iCEBREAKER]

So how do you classify stealing by promising delivery times they knew would have not been met even in the best case scenario?

"Stealing?"

When you voluntarily give someone something in exchange for their money, it's called 'selling' not "stealing."

You made the decision to fixate on the earliest possible ship date.

You made the decision to stubbornly insist the earliest possible ship date was some kind of deadline.

You made the decision to start calling hardware not delivered on the earliest possible date 'late.'

Those are *YOUR* mistakes.  Please own them, and stop whining like a little girl.

[DeathAndTaxes]

HashFast hasn't done anything to its early customers except work their asses off to make us the best Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

HashFast blatantly lied about delivery schedule.  They didn't even have the chips from the foundry until after their "anticipated ship date".  HashFast 100% knew from day 1 there is no possible way they could ship in October.  Period.  They could have been honest and sold rigs for late Dec delivery and a much lower price.  But they LIED to their customers so they could charge $12+ per GH/s rather than $3 per GH/s.

No product is late until it fails to ship by Dec 31.

There was no mention of 31 DEC anywhere on their website, their TOS, the contract, the order form, or the invoice prior to 15 AUG.  I have an entire copy of their pre August 15th website and TOS.  HashFast lied to customers and then changed the terms after the fact when they realized the existing terms didn't give them an "out" on that lie.  They lied because they wanted to sell "Oct delivery" units at Oct delivery prices.  They "could" have sold Dec delivery units but that would have required much lower prices.

It is fraud, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

fraud (noun)
1. wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

They criminally deceived their customers using false claims in order to gain from that deception.  Oct delivery was not possible.  It wasn't that it was too optimistic, it is IMPOSSIBLE.  They knew that, made the claim anyways because $12 per GH/s means a lot more millions in their pocket then $3 per GH/s.

You of all people know better than to fixate on the most optimistic earliest physically possible (IE initially "anticipated") ship date.

However if you provide an anticipated delivery date which is AFTER your contracted delivery date from the foundry then you have lied.  Not meeting a deadline is a different thing than promising a deadline which is utterly impossible.  The terms prior to 15 AUG had no mention of 31 DEC.  Period.  I have filed for arbitration.  I will never profit from that, the cost will only mean a larger losss but it is the principal of the matter.  They committed fraud to enrich themselves at the expense of their customers. 

Man up and take some personal responsibility.  You don't get huge potential reward without commensurate risk.

Doesn't change the fact that HashFast lied to their customers to overcharge for products they had no ability to deliver.  They increased their selling price 400% at the expense of the customers they lied to.  The fact that you defend them makes you a tool.

[iCEBREAKER]

Doesn't change the fact that HashFast lied to their customers to overcharge for products they had no possible way to deliver.  They increased their margin 400% at the expense of the customers they lied to.  The fact that you defend them makes you a tool.

You're talking as if it's six months from now.

HashFast just got their first machine hashing today.

This isn't over, it's just begun!

Do you really think HashFast isn't going to make up for their delay?

Do you really think HashFast doesn't want to reclaim the enthusiasm and popularity they enjoyed before suffering a couple of normal, entirely predictable delays?

Give them a chance to get the production line rolling and have some solid figures to work with.

They can't tell us how the delay compensation will work until those variables are evaluated.

The fact that you are attacking them makes you no better than crybabies like cedavid.   

[Syke]

You made the decision to fixate on the earliest possible ship date.

That's a nice term you made up, but that was never HashFast's claim.

[iCEBREAKER]

You made the decision to fixate on the earliest possible ship date.

That's a nice term you made up, but that was never HashFast's claim.

Allow me to introduce you to the concept of PARAPHRASING:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphrase

A paraphrase /ˈpærəfreɪz/ is a restatement of the meaning of a text or passage using other words. The term itself is derived via Latin paraphrasis from Greek παράφρασις, meaning "additional manner of expression". The act of paraphrasing is also called "paraphrasis".

[DeathAndTaxes]

Do you really think HashFast isn't going to make up for their delay?

No there aren't.  They already profited from the fraud.  Still even if they did it wouldn't undo the fraud.

Do you really think HashFast doesn't want to reclaim the enthusiasm and popularity they enjoyed before suffering a couple of normal, entirely predictable delays?

They don't have to.  Now that they lied to their first customers, made additional millions from that deception, and are in a place to deliver in volume they will simply lower the prices to be competitive.  It doesn't matter if their original customers got screwed over, it doesn't matter if not a single one ever buys from them again.  Miners really just look for the best value "today".  Just look at Avalon & BFL.  If the price is right for future units people will buy them.  HashFast doesn't have to "make it right" to move units.  They simply have to deliver future units at a competitive price.

Making it right to the people they defrauded would be pointless.   The right thing to do is not defraud your customers.  Once you have already done that it is beyond stupid to "make it right".  Who would do that? 

They can't tell us how the delay compensation will work until those variables are evaluated.

Of course they can.  

They have refused refunds even for those who placed orders prior to 15 AUG when the "31 DEC guaranteed delivery" was snuck in.
They have refused to provide additional MPP.
They have refused to ship MPP early.

They have refused to provide a partial refund for the time value.  "Dec" units will ship right after "Oct" units yet were priced much lower.  HF "could" refund the difference since honestly there is now no difference between a higher priced "Oct" unit and a lower priced "Dec" one. 


HashFast is clearly indicated they are sticking with their terms (even illegally retroactively changed after the fact terms) and their fraud.  They won't delivery anything extra or anything early.  People like you say we should be happy with what they (haven't) delivered.  Why would they deliver more if they are doing everything right already?

The fact that you are attacking them makes you no better than crybabies like cedavid.

I think my reputation is a little better than yours so sorry to be direct but I don't give two fucks what you think ... about anything.  If you start praising me well that probably means I have done something wrong so I better take a hard look at myself.  Still I think I have helped you drag this off topic enough so this will be my last post.

[aneutronic]

HashFast hasn't done anything to its early customers except work their asses off to make us the best Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

HashFast blatantly lied about delivery schedule.  They didn't even have the chips from the foundry until after their "anticipated ship date".  HashFast 100% knew from day 1 there is no possible way they could ship in October.  Period.  They could have been honest and sold rigs for late Dec delivery and a much lower price.  But they LIED to their customers so they could charge $12+ per GH/s rather than $3 per GH/s.

No product is late until it fails to ship by Dec 31.

There was no mention of 31 DEC anywhere on their website, their TOS, the contract, the order form, or the invoice prior to 15 AUG.  I have an entire copy of their pre August 15th website and TOS.  HashFast lied to customers and then changed the terms after the fact when they realized the existing terms didn't give them an "out" on that lie.  They lied because they wanted to sell "Oct delivery" units at Oct delivery prices.  They "could" have sold Dec delivery units but that would have required much lower prices.

It is fraud, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

fraud (noun)
1. wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

They criminally deceived their customers using false claims in order to gain from that deception.  Oct delivery was not possible.  It wasn't that it was too optimistic, it is IMPOSSIBLE.  They knew that, made the claim anyways because $12 per GH/s means a lot more millions in their pocket then $3 per GH/s.

You of all people know better than to fixate on the most optimistic earliest physically possible (IE initially "anticipated") ship date.

However if you provide an anticipated delivery date which is AFTER your contracted delivery date from the foundry then you have lied.  Not meeting a deadline is a different thing than promising a deadline which is utterly impossible.  The terms prior to 15 AUG had no mention of 31 DEC.  Period.  I have filed for arbitration.  I will never profit from that, the cost will only mean a larger losss but it is the principal of the matter.  They committed fraud to enrich themselves at the expense of their customers. 

Man up and take some personal responsibility.  You don't get huge potential reward without commensurate risk.

Doesn't change the fact that HashFast lied to their customers to overcharge for products they had no ability to deliver.  They increased their selling price 400% at the expense of the customers they lied to.  The fact that you defend them makes you a tool.

+1
Well said, please crosspost this to the HF thread.

[cedivad]

*post replying to the stupid points of icebreaker not wrote.

[Syke]

Allow me to introduce you to the concept of PARAPHRASING:

Allow me to show you the real quote:

We will be shipping in October.

There is no way to "paraphrase" "will be" to "earliest possible". Your "paraphrase" is an all out lie.

[Alvi]

DATELINE 12/10/2013: AUSTIN, TX.

As we move closer to manufacturing our first run of TerraMiner™ units we will be providing status reports for our customers who are interested in the technology aspects of what goes into making a Bitcoin miner.

Today we can announce that we have now entered the final phase of the fabrication process and we have received target dates from our partners regarding finalization of key components in the GoldStrike™ I ASIC chip:

1. FABOUT

The fabout of the first wafers for the GoldStrike™ I is scheduled to occur on December 17th
The wafer etching process in which the blank wafers are etched with the chip layout at the foundry is complete and the chip leaves the foundry for bumping.
2. BUMPOUT

Following the fabout, we have a projected bumpout date of December 21st
The bump process attaches solder balls to the wafer, which is then flipped over and attached to the substrate during packaging.

Hand-in-hand with the fabout and bumpout, manufacturing of the PCB’s, cases and other key components has commenced. CoolIT Systems specialized liquid cooling units and Power-One’s platinum-certified power supplies are being stockpiled, ensuring that once the final GoldStrike™ I ASICs arrive our entire supply chain will be ready to begin the first TerraMiner production run.

As you can see in the pictures below we have finished design and prototyping of the board and case design and stand ready for the arrival of the GoldStrike™ I chip.

To find out more about the mysterious world of fabout and bumpout, and to get a peek at the insides of a TerraMiner, head over to our first blog post by Jim O’Connor, CoinTerra’s VP of Hardware Engineering. Expect further exciting updates as we head towards the finish line.

Source: http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-projected-goldstrike-fabout-bumpout-dates-announced/

[Syke]

Nice looking setup.

[iCEBREAKER]

Following the fabout, we have a projected bumpout date of December 21st

   In other words, there will be no December deliveries and January is iffy, just like I told you all.

ALWAYS BET ON iCE...

[Alvi]

Following the fabout, we have a projected bumpout date of December 21st

   In other words, there will be no December deliveries and January is iffy, just like I told you all.

ALWAYS BET ON iCE...

Do you think there's still any December order? with the price difference i'm sure everyone transferred their order to January just like i did. Most likely we will get our machine shipped out mid to end of January.