[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

[gannicus]

klee, as anonymous as any retard in this forum, how confused are you about databases and what is used and where? Never mind, this is a rhetorical question.
If those clowns are going for Oracle... pff. good luck and thank you for a early warning. You sure know how to piss yor investors money away.
Have a nice ride to...

ex-trader accountants do not evaluate "business models". You probably meant "business plan" with shiny predictions for future income (aka fiction)

Indulge me!
Whats your experience dude? Ever worked in something as big as NeoBee might be?

Or hacking alone in your bedroom all day? Ever worked in a real company?? With people? You know...

If they cannot succeed with the cash they have now, they will not succeed at all, because they have no way to raise more. And they sure are being careless with that cash.

Of course there are ways to raise more cash if needed without "dilution", lol. Danny Brewster can simply sell a % of his stake to private investors, which would be the same as diluting his position solely. I am not saying that there will be such investors but it is a way to raise money without diluting minor investors.

[freedomno1]

klee, as anonymous as any retard in this forum, how confused are you about databases and what is used and where? Never mind, this is a rhetorical question.
If those clowns are going for Oracle... pff. good luck and thank you for a early warning. You sure know how to piss yor investors money away.
Have a nice ride to...

ex-trader accountants do not evaluate "business models". You probably meant "business plan" with shiny predictions for future income (aka fiction)

Indulge me!
Whats your experience dude? Ever worked in something as big as NeoBee might be?

Or hacking alone in your bedroom all day? Ever worked in a real company?? With people? You know...

I think you're missing the point. $47k per CPU is not an acceptable expense for a company that has raised maybe $1-2M. Every one of these initial dollars are precious. If they are all gone before NEOBEE is cash-positive, it fails.

NEOBEE has painted itself into a corner. No dilution. ALL of the public shares are up for sale at the current price point.

If they cannot succeed with the cash they have now, they will not succeed at all, because they have no way to raise more. And they sure are being careless with that cash.

Vycid gives NEOBEE a "don't buy" based on the way they are burning their capital and the absurdly optimistic business plan.

I would be interested in a justification from Danny for that $47k+ expense (or perhaps that he got a special deal?)

Reasonable point
They should generate income before burning through it all

[canth]

klee, as anonymous as any retard in this forum, how confused are you about databases and what is used and where? Never mind, this is a rhetorical question.
If those clowns are going for Oracle... pff. good luck and thank you for a early warning. You sure know how to piss yor investors money away.
Have a nice ride to...

ex-trader accountants do not evaluate "business models". You probably meant "business plan" with shiny predictions for future income (aka fiction)

Indulge me!
Whats your experience dude? Ever worked in something as big as NeoBee might be?

Or hacking alone in your bedroom all day? Ever worked in a real company?? With people? You know...

I think you're missing the point. $47k per CPU is not an acceptable expense for a company that has raised maybe $1-2M. Every one of these initial dollars are precious. If they are all gone before NEOBEE is cash-positive, it fails.

NEOBEE has painted itself into a corner. No dilution. ALL of the public shares are up for sale at the current price point.

If they cannot succeed with the cash they have now, they will not succeed at all, because they have no way to raise more. And they sure are being careless with that cash.

Vycid gives NEOBEE a "don't buy" based on the way they are burning their capital and the absurdly optimistic business plan.

I would be interested in a justification from Danny for that $47k+ expense (or perhaps that he got a special deal?)

Reasonable point
They should generate income before burning through it all

We have no idea how Oracle is being used, how many processors they might have licensed, what edition they purchased or what pricing they might have negotiated. Regardless, it's very unlikely that the database cost is going to be all that critical to whether or not NEOBEE is a success, IMO.

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/database/enterprise-edition/comparisons/index.html

[bittymitty]

I would hope that NEO and BEE support opensource software where possible.

Don't waste BTC on Microsoft crap when you can get just as good open source alternatives.

[lewicki]

That building was being built without our investment. I believe most of our investment is going towards upholding the deposit procedures and such.

[canth]

I would hope that NEO and BEE support opensource software where possible.

Don't waste BTC on Microsoft crap when you can get just as good open source alternatives.

From the comments, it seems that many people here have never worked at a major financial instituion...

Personally, while I laud the support and use of open source software, it's not my focus by investing in NEOBEE. I actually could care less about the software framework choices and would be far more interested in seeing NEOBEE establish the relationships with the regulators and banking industry that's going to be necessary for them to succeed. The software used in creating a business is completely secondary.

[bittymitty]

I have worked in the biggest financial institutions(CITI,HSBC, etc) yawn. 

The reason you should follow the open source principle is because Bitcoin is open source and NEOBEE would not exist without it being so.

As long as the software does what is needed why wouldn't you go the open source route? 

I don't think there is a law in finance that you have to use Microsoft?

[canth]

I have worked in the biggest financial institutions(CITI,HSBC, etc) yawn. 

The reason you should follow the open source principle is because Bitcoin is open source and NEOBEE would not exist without it being so.

As long as the software does what is needed why wouldn't you go the open source route? 

I don't think there is a law in finance that you have to use Microsoft?

Great, well then you're well aware that these institutions do just fine by using a wide variety of open source and proprietary software. There's no law that says that Microsoft or Oracle need to be used - far from it. I would just say that the focus for NEOBEE should be on establishing the critical relationships that they'll need to survive. The software they use to get up and running shouldn't be picked on pure open source ideological reasons - it should be based upon a number of criteria, including what expertise the technical team has. If they're a bunch of C# coders then MS wouldn't be the worst choice.

[cryptocyprus]

There is not a single Microsoft product in our business (With exception to one VM running Windows for the Oracle Devs), all of our desktops are running Ubuntu, we got a good deal with Oracle, we already have clients and are providing our services 4 months ahead of schedule, I did wonder how long it would take to get the Oracle vs Open Source debate in full flow.

I cannot wait to announce the biggest brand we have so far, for the Bee network.Our lawyers and KPMG are actively dealing with the Central Bank establishing the framework for us to operate within and our customer facing websites are ready, just waiting for the University (It was a bank holiday yesterday)to give the .com.cy domains the go ahead.

As for burning capital, we are already under budget on many things (so far) the fortunate thing we have going in our favour is we are one of a handful of businesses spending money in Cyprus, this alone buys good deals.

[kingcrimson]

we already have clients and are providing our services 4 months ahead of schedule

Is it possible the business might open early for this reason? I was worried with the recent price rise NeoBee would be missing out.

[freedomno1]

There is not a single Microsoft product in our business (With exception to one VM running Windows for the Oracle Devs), all of our desktops are running Ubuntu, we got a good deal with Oracle, we already have clients and are providing our services 4 months ahead of schedule, I did wonder how long it would take to get the Oracle vs Open Source debate in full flow.

I cannot wait to announce the biggest brand we have so far, for the Bee network.Our lawyers and KPMG are actively dealing with the Central Bank establishing the framework for us to operate within and our customer facing websites are ready, just waiting for the University (It was a bank holiday yesterday)to give the .com.cy domains the go ahead.

As for burning capital, we are already under budget on many things (so far) the fortunate thing we have going in our favour is we are one of a handful of businesses spending money in Cyprus, this alone buys good deals.

That does make a lot of sense can't see many businesses in Cyprus conducting business after the Financial crisis remember Zerodays thread all to well
Thanks for the clarification.

[Ytterbium]

ORACLE CUSTOMERS INCLUDE
•   20 of the 20 top airlines
•   20 of the 20 top
automotive companies
•   20 of the 20 top banks
•   20 of the 20 top governments
•   20 of the 20 top
high tech companies
•   20 of the 20 top insurers
•   20 of the 20 top manufacturers
•   20 of the 20 top oil and
gas companies
•   20 of the 20 top pharmas
•   20 of the 20 top retailers
•   10 of the 10 top SaaS providers
•   20 of the 20 top telcos
•   20 of the 20 top utilities

So, all of these clueless companies with clueless CEOs just choose to waste their money on overpriced crap because it gives Larry Ellison more money to buy stuff? Yeah, it's expensive but if you can cut your development time by using expertise and off-the shelf integrations, then the cost can be worth it.

Are they also going to be writing the exchange in COBOL?  And will they be running all this on IBM mainframes?

Is NEOBEE a billion dollar company that can afford to waste millions of dollars on overpriced software? Those companies likely have tons of legacy software for Oracle that would cost a fortune to translate to new systems, so they need to keep using it. I'm certainly not saying it never makes sense to use Oracle, but it doesn't make much sense to use it if you're starting a new company with all new code.

MySQL is actually an Oracle product - they acquired it when they bought Sun Microsystems. Tons of large companies use MySQL internally, including Google.

By the way, The enterprise version of Oracle costs $45,000 per processor  That means if they want to scale up they have to pay the license fee over and over again, which means they'll actually be far more limited then if they'd gone with a proven, well used open source solution.  (Unless they're getting some kind of discount)

Yes, since you are a developer yet have no idea how software support work for things like Postgres, you are a developer idiot. It's sad that even jokes have to be explained to you.

No one laughed I assure you.

I bet you know because you are a developer genius - you did not tell as where you have worked though.

And your experience in support...

I laughed.

As far as support goes, support for what?  Are you saying you think the NEOBEE Sysadmins are too stupid to run a database without someone there to hold their hands?

I suppose it makes sense as a sort of "insurance policy" if the developers and sysadmins do screw up something really badly with people's money on the line an Oracle support person might be able to figure out the problem. But it won't be necessary with reasonable coding standards and backup policies.

Anyway, it's not the end of the world if they use Oracle, just a waste of money.  If they did get a "deal" on it then it might not be so bad.  The main thing I was responding too was the idea that somehow they couldn't use open source software.

[San1ty]

On to the next question, why even use an RDBMS?
MongoDB Anyone?

[canth]

On to the next question, why even use an RDBMS?
MongoDB Anyone?

Haha. Ruby vs php, Mac vs Windows, cloud vs hardware, Coke vs Pepsi...bring it on.

[Skoutz]

As far as the payment of dividend is concerned:

Neo & Bee is a serious long term investment in the space (in my opinion - the most serious so far) and not a "fictitious scam" or a "monkey business" that we have been used to in the community.

The company is a registered UK corporation. According to UK company law, a company CANNOT pay dividends until it has accumulated profits. It is illegal to pay dividends whilst you have losses (for creditors' protection etc.).

If the company proceeds to pay a dividend before it has accumulated profits then (a) the company, (b) the directors and (c) the auditors will be in very serious legal troubles. I do not believe the management of LMB Holdings or the company's auditors (KPMG) would like to risk it!

Additionally, for a start-up business with such a huge potential, from the cash flow point of view it also makes a lot of sense to start paying dividends once the company starts making a profit.

[Keyser Soze]

As far as the payment of dividend is concerned:

Neo & Bee is a serious long term investment in the space (in my opinion - the most serious so far) and not a "fictitious scam" or a "monkey business" that we have been used to in the community.

The company is a registered UK corporation. According to UK company law, a company CANNOT pay dividends until it has accumulated profits. It is illegal to pay dividends whilst you have losses (for creditors' protection etc.).

If the company proceeds to pay a dividend before it has accumulated profits then (a) the company, (b) the directors and (c) the auditors will be in very serious legal troubles. I do not believe the management of LMB Holdings or the company's auditors (KPMG) would like to risk it!

Additionally, for a start-up business with such a huge potential, from the cash flow point of view it also makes a lot of sense to start paying dividends once the company starts making a profit.

To be honest, it almost seems like the dividends (that bitcoiners have come to expect with securities) were "thrown in" as an afterthought. For a start up of this nature, I would expect them to retain all profits for growth. Don't count on them paying dividends anytime soon, even if they are profitable.

Of course they could have specifically addressed this already. It has been awhile since I read everything, so I may be wrong. 

[San1ty]

Too easy.

Ruby vs php

Both suck.

Mac vs Windows

Both suck.

Coke vs Pepsi

Both suck.

Lol QFT!

I recently stopped drinking any soft-drink! The first days were rough, but it was worth it!

Also: Node.JS FTW!

[Herp]

As far as the payment of dividend is concerned:

Neo & Bee is a serious long term investment in the space (in my opinion - the most serious so far) and not a "fictitious scam" or a "monkey business" that we have been used to in the community.

The company is a registered UK corporation. According to UK company law, a company CANNOT pay dividends until it has accumulated profits. It is illegal to pay dividends whilst you have losses (for creditors' protection etc.).

If the company proceeds to pay a dividend before it has accumulated profits then (a) the company, (b) the directors and (c) the auditors will be in very serious legal troubles. I do not believe the management of LMB Holdings or the company's auditors (KPMG) would like to risk it!

Additionally, for a start-up business with such a huge potential, from the cash flow point of view it also makes a lot of sense to start paying dividends once the company starts making a profit.

To be honest, it almost seems like the dividends (that bitcoiners have come to expect with securities) were "thrown in" as an afterthought. For a start up of this nature, I would expect them to retain all profits for growth. Don't count on them paying dividends anytime soon, even if they are profitable.

Of course they could have specifically addressed this already. It has been awhile since I read everything, so I may be wrong.  

Yeah, they have. Public shareholders will get first profits as dividends until they get back 0.0035btc/share.

Investor Protection Plan
The initial 9,600,000 shares of LMB Holdings have the privilege of getting all profits until a total of 0.0035 bitcoins per share has been paid. Following this initial period of protection, dividends will be divided equally amongst all public and private shareholders.

[Keyser Soze]

As far as the payment of dividend is concerned:

Neo & Bee is a serious long term investment in the space (in my opinion - the most serious so far) and not a "fictitious scam" or a "monkey business" that we have been used to in the community.

The company is a registered UK corporation. According to UK company law, a company CANNOT pay dividends until it has accumulated profits. It is illegal to pay dividends whilst you have losses (for creditors' protection etc.).

If the company proceeds to pay a dividend before it has accumulated profits then (a) the company, (b) the directors and (c) the auditors will be in very serious legal troubles. I do not believe the management of LMB Holdings or the company's auditors (KPMG) would like to risk it!

Additionally, for a start-up business with such a huge potential, from the cash flow point of view it also makes a lot of sense to start paying dividends once the company starts making a profit.

To be honest, it almost seems like the dividends (that bitcoiners have come to expect with securities) were "thrown in" as an afterthought. For a start up of this nature, I would expect them to retain all profits for growth. Don't count on them paying dividends anytime soon, even if they are profitable.

Of course they could have specifically addressed this already. It has been awhile since I read everything, so I may be wrong.  

Yeah, they have. Public shareholders will get first profits as dividends until they get back 0.0035btc/share.

Investor Protection Plan
The initial 9,600,000 shares of LMB Holdings have the privilege of getting all profits until a total of 0.0035 bitcoins per share has been paid. Following this initial period of protection, dividends will be divided equally amongst all public and private shareholders.

Yes public shareholders will get paid first, but when would they actually pay dividends? If they are successful, they will need the capital to grow. Couldn't they just retain all profits for growth?

[Herp]

As far as the payment of dividend is concerned:

Neo & Bee is a serious long term investment in the space (in my opinion - the most serious so far) and not a "fictitious scam" or a "monkey business" that we have been used to in the community.

The company is a registered UK corporation. According to UK company law, a company CANNOT pay dividends until it has accumulated profits. It is illegal to pay dividends whilst you have losses (for creditors' protection etc.).

If the company proceeds to pay a dividend before it has accumulated profits then (a) the company, (b) the directors and (c) the auditors will be in very serious legal troubles. I do not believe the management of LMB Holdings or the company's auditors (KPMG) would like to risk it!

Additionally, for a start-up business with such a huge potential, from the cash flow point of view it also makes a lot of sense to start paying dividends once the company starts making a profit.

To be honest, it almost seems like the dividends (that bitcoiners have come to expect with securities) were "thrown in" as an afterthought. For a start up of this nature, I would expect them to retain all profits for growth. Don't count on them paying dividends anytime soon, even if they are profitable.

Of course they could have specifically addressed this already. It has been awhile since I read everything, so I may be wrong.  

Yeah, they have. Public shareholders will get first profits as dividends until they get back 0.0035btc/share.

Investor Protection Plan
The initial 9,600,000 shares of LMB Holdings have the privilege of getting all profits until a total of 0.0035 bitcoins per share has been paid. Following this initial period of protection, dividends will be divided equally amongst all public and private shareholders.

Yes public shareholders will get paid first, but when would they actually pay dividends? If they are successful, they will need the capital to grow. Couldn't they just retain all profits for growth?

Investor Protection Plan
The initial 9,600,000 shares of LMB Holdings have the privilege of getting all profits until a total of 0.0035 bitcoins per share has been paid. Following this initial period of protection, dividends will be divided equally amongst all public and private shareholders.

The "all profits" part makes it pretty clear. Won't be very cool now to go back on their word.