Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[georgem]

However when it comes to the third rule (61day rule):
3) After the 61st day of late shipment, you have the right to request a full refund and we will pay you an additional penalty of 10% of the initial order amount.
to me this means your would* be eligible to request a refund already on the 21^st of May since it does not state after 61 days "in the CCP" but "late shipment" which does include the first 10 days as well according to their own definition:
1) Shipment can be late up to a maximum of 10 days from the agreed shipment date.

Based on that, the first orders (to my knowledge agreed shipping date was on 16^th of Dec?) would be eligible for refund in case bitmine would not be able so start shipping by the end of next week.

Yeah, the ******* virus is strong...

This is a good question. Those first 10 days are very unclear territory legally spoken.

Also, what's with the 10% per 10-days CPP anyway?
Can it really go on endlessly?
Or is the moment it comes to the third rule (61 day rule) also the moment the CPP "is supposed to stop" ?

Does bitmine assume/hope that people will always want their money back instead of them having to create devices with ever growing amounts of modules?

(I understand that many (most?) orders have been payed in bitcoins, before the spike to 1000 dollar in november.
Was bitmine clever enough and kept those bitcoins and made an enormous amount of money?)

But now: What if someone doesn't want his money back. Instead he insists on dragging the thing into the future, even for a whole year.
(like me who just wants his first miner to be a big machine, and will only mine altcoins anyway)

Will bitmine really give him a 360% upgrade?? What if we all did that?
What if this escalates, what if their chips run out, and they have to order new ones, etc..

What I want to say with that, is that this whole CPP is a complete disaster. For us and for bitmine.

It's a farce, because it can ONLY escalate.

[BuTaJIu4eK]

It all orders from 50btc.com to BITMINE 

https://blockchain.info/ru/address/18WkEVuGiXh8NAsuBgCbnpfRTn311S1cW3


P.S. Announce address when ordering directly from bitmine!?

[RetroGamer]

unfortunately conceals bitmine us something very important
mention the answer to it, we find probably in the DIY forum of zefir

I have copied the post times :

There are two levels of experience I can share . The first one is from the logical link layer / SW side (my domain) : when I got the FPGA simulator to work on the cgminer driver I attached it to RPi 's SPI interface , sent it a job and got a result returned . I was like ' whoa did if is how the real chip works , thatwill be easy' . Then when i got to test the driver on a real A1, the same driver worked quietly and the chip crunched the whole nonce range in 160ms . I was like ' whoa, this is incredibly easy! ' . If you take a look at the initial cgminer driver , you'll see what I mean .

Then there is the productizing level - Which is not my domain and I can only report from my experience with HW hacking sessions over lots of sleepless nights . There it turns out soon did the ' easy' preconditions the chip requires (as Depicted here ) are not exactly trivial to Ensure . You might end up opening your Champagne bottle after seeing your board hashing for hours flawlessly - just to notice it stopped overnight . And after endless debug sessions to find out did one chip reset Itself since your power supply had a larger than tolerated ripple at a very specific temperature. Or did one single bit in inter -chip SPI communication toggled due to parasitic effects from Adjacent PCB layers - Which as result kills a chip chain in case a command is interpreted wrongly by the chip .


So in essence yes , the chip is really easy did . Ensure you keep the requirements met and it will hash right away . As for communication , there is not much you can mess up there: I have been trying the RPi 's SPI port , bit - banging over GPIO , or proxying the access over STM32 SPI port - all work with master SPI clocks in between 5 kHz and 10 MHz .

To make a working product out of it is a different story then. Getting it to hash for some hours is silent Easily doable - but building a board did runs for months untouched under various environmental conditions is not . That is why Bitmine has not yet published started shipping products. And did might also be the reason we see only marto74 reporting back successful surgery of his design - He Has a great experience with his Avalon / BitFury boards and started off from a design with verified signal integrity . Others starting from scratch might also need to learn first .

In retrospect my advice would be: follow a KISS approach , start with a single-or two -chip design first and Ensure your DCDC is capable to keep up the required power stability ( for reference: marto74 and Bitmine Provide 50A ), in a second step , copy paste did design to form larger chains . While the A1 is meant to be chained up to 250 chips , 8 -chip chains SEEM to be a sweet spot in between overhead and communication latency .


Good Luck

link to forum
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.0

[Black_ice666]

You all relax...

your money is already gone any way....

also bitcoin market is crazing now....

(might recover on Monday, but not likely, it will stable out around 400, and the recovery will be very slow, if it don't die completely....

But that just my perdition, don't lissen to me, i cut be wrong....

But in most cases like this, im not, and have made some money on it along the way....

I had a feeling about this asic unit, at half price so i ordered low her at bitmine.ch (at 50BTC) and bougth at knc instead, for my main orders

(Witch is in Sweden, witch im just next to, and took me 4 hours to go visit, so i had more trust their...)

But i cut be wrong... happen't before... )

But....

They will probably start shipping next week, as they are done mining on you miner (becomes almost in-profitable ) and need to up hold the 61 day refund in contracts...

So they will start shipping now the market dives, so that they drag the batch out to fit the 61 day thingy, and harvest the last money as the market for miners die out (becomes almost in-profitable)

............

That's what i would do if i was them any way..... (and most others would ...) ......

But if its just the machine for fun you want, then relax it will be shipped out just around the 61 day delay ....

My prediction...

No proof. ....

Just a feeling from having live on the criminal side of almost every thing all my life....

...........

Ill keep dreaming im wrong (but i dont belive it, its just a dream... )

[matthewh3]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule 

[aopa38]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule 

Agreed matthewh3, oh no shit wait....

[ljp]

I propose that if Bitmine wants to test my miner before its ready to ship, then they use my bitcoin address so that all the funds from pre-test mining are sent to me. This allows them to test my miner and gives me something while they test and before they ship, it would also allow me so know that the miner is close to shipping.

Is this reasonable ??

[BuTaJIu4eK]

The story about a 80 days money back!
 
1. 62 day - people began to demand money back!
2. Day 62-63 - Bitmine on continuing to use our Miner for mining!
3. 78-79 day - they return the money to us!
 
This scheme scams! 
 
PS It's true!

[websmith]

no interest loan

[oatmo]

I think that's an appropriate estimation based on the FACTS that bitmine hasn't shown any working machine yet,
and no screenshots of software, and no customer has yet send a message confirming that he has recieved a device.

They didn't have the chips back in November but how exactly is this Nov 23, 2013 video not a video of a working prototype?

This prototype runs with simulated chips, not the actual chips.

I mean that's why end of december they wrote this post:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=4543

"First samples of the CoinCraft A1 demonstrated working!"

You see... why would they say so, if as you say they had a working prototype ready a month before that?

A1 Means the second chip rev. A0 is always the first rev.

[Daveb0]

I think that's an appropriate estimation based on the FACTS that bitmine hasn't shown any working machine yet,
and no screenshots of software, and no customer has yet send a message confirming that he has recieved a device.

They didn't have the chips back in November but how exactly is this Nov 23, 2013 video not a video of a working prototype?

This prototype runs with simulated chips, not the actual chips.

I mean that's why end of december they wrote this post:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=4543

"First samples of the CoinCraft A1 demonstrated working!"

You see... why would they say so, if as you say they had a working prototype ready a month before that?

A1 Means the second chip rev. A0 is always the first rev.

And so what? Even if this would apply here, the video shows an FPGA emulating the CoinCraft A1 ASIC - there might also be an FPGA Emulation of the A0 Revision in case there is any A0 Revision as you state (without any proof yet)
So basically this is just a proof of concept that the chip design "logically" works. This does not even show wether this chip can be produced "mechanically" (or "chemically" if you want )

This gives no indication that
- the ASIC can be operated stable 24/7 @ 1GHz (the FPGA prototype only runs @50MHz)
- their assumption, that the chip scales linearly when putting 10 of them on a single pcb, is valid (referring to the Rig modules)
- the pcb they have designed actually works (as we know now it doesn't, which is actually normal that you have to go over several itterations to end up with a working pcb)
- their heat dissipation concept is suitable to handle 80 of these chips (+ all the other components like the 3kW power supply) in a single case 24/7
  -> I am not even talking about the turbo mode they advertised
- the Raspberry Pi board can actually handle all the 80 Chips whithout any chip (significantly) ideling
- ...

So if I understood georgem correctly, he is asking for a prototype (not a proof of concept), e.g. a System built with:
- 10 A1 ASICs on a single PCB (does not have to be nicely packaged)
- e.g. three of this pcb connected to the Raspberry Pi board (does not have to be in the case, can just lie loosely on a table)
- seeing this systems works at the expected 750GHs (does not have to be the GUI, can also be SSH access) and a measurement of its power consumption
- seeing the system running in turbo mode for a while (and a measurement of its power consumption)
or even better:
- a rig with (not yet so nicely packaged) 8 modules running with a beta version of the Software (or just a plain Linux)

[giorgiomassa]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule 

+1

[mmitech]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule 

+1

,

anything else to say beside that +1 ? I agree on the noob restriction, but it is not strange to see members assuming the worst when you didn't post any update what so ever..... some transparency will bring the confidence back...

[giorgiomassa]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule 

+1

,

anything else to say beside that +1 ? I agree on the noob restriction, but it is not strange to see members assuming the worst when you didn't post any update what so ever..... some transparency will bring the confidence back...

We are shooting a video of the working miner and will release official press soon, but I can anticipate already that we're starting shipping next week, keep an eye on our news section for further updates!

[rmb2u]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule 

+1

,

anything else to say beside that +1 ? I agree on the noob restriction, but it is not strange to see members assuming the worst when you didn't post any update what so ever..... some transparency will bring the confidence back...

We are shooting a video of the working miner and will release official press soon, but I can anticipate already that we're starting shipping next week, keep an eye on our news section for further updates!

Nice! Thanks for the update.

[jaymunro]

Looking forward to it.

[lossminer]

you can anticipate. great. what a bullshit.

[mmitech]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule  

+1

,

anything else to say beside that +1 ? I agree on the noob restriction, but it is not strange to see members assuming the worst when you didn't post any update what so ever..... some transparency will bring the confidence back...

We are shooting a video of the working miner and will release official press soon, but I can anticipate already that we're starting shipping next week, keep an eye on our news section for further updates!

I hope you do, I invested heavily in Peta-Mine when I knew that they have a deal with you guys, I felt confident that you will deliver and had no doubts, but now After all this delay it is starting to be disappointing, I give you guys credit for the AVALON mess, but at this point I feel the PETA-MINE operation is at the same position you were at when avalon failed to deliver except that we share holders are the effected.


my biggest fear is the Asicminer chips that will hit the market after 2 weeks, their update doesn't put so much confidence in me, add to that KNCminer and their smart move to protect their customers, in time we your customers are suffering the most, I don't know how will you compensate for all of this...



 

[giorgiomassa]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule  

+1

,

anything else to say beside that +1 ? I agree on the noob restriction, but it is not strange to see members assuming the worst when you didn't post any update what so ever..... some transparency will bring the confidence back...

We are shooting a video of the working miner and will release official press soon, but I can anticipate already that we're starting shipping next week, keep an eye on our news section for further updates!

I hope you do, I invested heavily in Peta-Mine when I knew that they have a deal with you guys, I felt confident that you will deliver and had no doubts, but now After all this delay it is starting to be disappointing, I give you guys credit for the AVALON mess, but at this point I feel the PETA-MINE operation is at the same position you were at when avalon failed to deliver except that we share holders are the effected.


my biggest fear is the Asicminer chips that will hit the market after 2 weeks, their update doesn't put so much confidence in me, add to that KNCminer and their smart move to protect their customers, in time we your customers are suffering the most, I don't know how will you compensate for all of this...



 

We fully understand and share your fears, however as we will start shipping next week we'll all feel much better, we have a huge backlog of orders and we're putting as many resources as possible to cope with the delays. We are not forgetting our customers just because we don't post news but rather the opposite, we don't have time to post news because we're all 200% focused on ramping up the production as much as possible.

[segaklon]

I wish the forum would bring back the newbie post count rule  

+1

,

anything else to say beside that +1 ? I agree on the noob restriction, but it is not strange to see members assuming the worst when you didn't post any update what so ever..... some transparency will bring the confidence back...

We are shooting a video of the working miner and will release official press soon, but I can anticipate already that we're starting shipping next week, keep an eye on our news section for further updates!

I hope you do, I invested heavily in Peta-Mine when I knew that they have a deal with you guys, I felt confident that you will deliver and had no doubts, but now After all this delay it is starting to be disappointing, I give you guys credit for the AVALON mess, but at this point I feel the PETA-MINE operation is at the same position you were at when avalon failed to deliver except that we share holders are the effected.


my biggest fear is the Asicminer chips that will hit the market after 2 weeks, their update doesn't put so much confidence in me, add to that KNCminer and their smart move to protect their customers, in time we your customers are suffering the most, I don't know how will you compensate for all of this...



 

We fully understand and share your fears, however as we will start shipping next week we'll all feel much better, we have a huge backlog of orders and we're putting as many resources as possible to cope with the delays. We are not forgetting our customers just because we don't post news but rather the opposite, we don't have time to post news because we're all 200% focused on ramping up the production as much as possible.

Man, thanks for replying so you can at least reassure an impatient majority in which I include myself.

Wait to be next week if it is true that begin to send the miners because as you know the rate that the difficulty progresses not get even get the invested in them.