Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[Wolke]

Look at the Bottom, Kurtisi Zefir, Member of Bitmine AG? Is this the Zefir Guy in the forum talking about the chips, promoting them, doing group buys?

Yes, it's definitively the Zefir guy who posts in this forum. Look at the e-mail in his profile.

It's quite interesting to look at the FB-Profiles of people involved in Bitmine AG to see the faces behind this componay. Doesn't really increase my trustworthiness /edit in this company, lol

Why don't you ask instead of flooding this thread with speculation / conspiracy?

Yes, of course I am the one who is listed in the document - how many other zefirs you know in the bitcoin community who happen to work for Bitmine over the last few months?

I already posted in this thread to work as a consultant for the SW side and am Bitmine's largest customer. And after the fact that I ripped off my butt working on the chips bring-up, Bitmine decided that I am valuable enough for the company to offer me company shares. That's where we are now and that is nothing worth speculating.

Also, I am not doing group-buys or other suspicious things here - contrary I supply over 20 DIY projects (like marto74, WASP, etc.) with chips I bought and paid before to support building up a solid open-source scene around the A1 chip and keep mining rig available for the small scale miners.


Feel free to ask if you need to know more, there is really nothing secret in here.

zefir

+1
thanks for your statement..

do you know something about working at this weekend for example ?
because, when did they / you ship the first units ?
and how many units a day ?

[zefir]

Since Bitmine AG doesn't provide us with useful information, I started collecting them by myself. Can you say anything about the information-policy of Bitmine AG?

Beeing shareholder isn't the same thing as beeing on the board of directors, which makes you liable if the company if fuck** up.

Do you want to say anyithing about the chines contractor? Fud?

Thanks for your reply.

Well, information-policy you say? It is obviously sub-optimal. If you are from Switzerland, you maybe should go and visit their offices in Ticino. You'll find hard working engineers who can't do their real job because their mobile is ringing every 20 seconds. You'll find that business is not always going as planned (actually: it never does) and folks are doing their best to meet their obligations towards customers. Believe me, those guys are very unhappy about the delays - I have them on Skype every night when I remotely work on fixing things and be sure none of us slept more than 4h a night over the past 2 months.

In light of that, all this talk about Bitmine having already working rig and self-mining is plain stupid. Even without the slightest idea on economical or mining context, it should be obvious that finalizing and selling products is the most profitable way to re-cover the enormous NRE costs that were spent. We made the first fully populated CoinCraft Desk working some days ago and mass production is ramping up just now. There are some users in this thread you can not convince by facts, but this is how things currently are.

To your other points:
There is no fuck**up happening in Bitmine. Things went differently than planned, but the company will keep their ToS products were sold after. That is, soon first buyers are entitled to request for refunds which will be granted. The more patient ones will get the CPP as agreed - we all have vital interests to make those rightfully angry and impatient buyers long term customers. CPP will cost a lot and eventually eat up all potential profits, therefore my personal fuck**up will be to lose all I invested so far.

As for the Chinese contractor: define FUD. At the beginning, there was someone from Asia who wanted to invest in Bitmine but finally did not. That's basically why there were shares left to offer to me.

I think swissmining questions your independence and bias towards bitmine. I don't think he doubts your workethic and efforts.

Until now I too had the impression you were some kind of independent consultant, but now it starts to look completely different.
Since you are on their payroll now, we can't expect you to say ANYTHING critical about them. That's a problem.

Seriously: check my post history. I never posted anything else than facts - nothing negative, nothing positive. How would that change the situation in any way? For those waiting for their miners it is irrelevant. Above that, I am engineer with zero PR or convincing capabilities.

If you doubt my objectivity now as shareholder, why didn't you do when I was a paid consultant? In both cases I would not badmouth the feeding hand, obviously.

So you invested in Bitmine SA? Or why do you hold a board position?

Because they think I am a nice guy who should be in the board? Because I put ~5k BTC into Bitmine? Because I work like a horse and delivered good results? I don't know, but that's how it is.



Hope I helped you to resolve some concerns. Now going back to finalize the CCD firmware and work on the rig variant. Sorry if I should not respond in realtime, but for sure you understand that there are more important things to do for now.

[georgem]

...If you are from Switzerland, you maybe should go and visit their offices in Ticino. You'll find hard working engineers who can't do their real job because their mobile is ringing every 20 seconds.

I won't comment on everything else you say, because honestly it doesn't concern me.

But this one sentence you posted infuriates me.

So now it's us customers who are keeping the engineers from working? Don't we have a right to ask what the hell is going on?
With all the delays, extremely low news frequency and this reluctance to clarify open questions?

This tells me that not only does bitmine have a bad customerservice, no, some of them downright despise the customers, because WHO DO THOSE CUSTOMERS THINK THEY ARE???

What, only because they payed upfront, they have the right to constantly ask for an update? No, they should suck it up, and just wait. WE DECIDE NOW!

...

Listen, all those customers made an investment, and they want to be constantly updated. NOT LIED TO.

Imagine how you would feel, if as a shareholder of bitmine, you were not allowed to be informed about the condition of the firm, and weren't allowed to take a look at the balance sheets?
In this case, you would have the right to sue them if I am not mistaken.

We customers just want to be informed, not lied to. Much like investors we need to know how good or bad our position develops over time.
We don't really care if the news are bad, we just want clarity so we can assess the situation and adjust our plans.

We don't want any more red herrings.

[tvskit]

I have to calm down! Have to wait another month?

[tvskit]

+100500

[ZZZZZZZZxx]

In light of that, all this talk about Bitmine having already working rig and self-mining is plain stupid. Even without the slightest idea on economical or mining context, it should be obvious that finalizing and selling products is the most profitable way to re-cover the enormous NRE costs that were spent.

 I should be obvious:    That everyone who has bought mining gear expect a ROI
 +
 why KNC don't sell more Jupiter's instead of building a datacenter for them 
 or
 ASICminer

 finalizing and selling products is the most profitable safest way, particular when you sell pre-order
 we all have learned over the past 2 years

[tranquille]

Since Bitmine AG doesn't provide us with useful information, I started collecting them by myself. Can you say anything about the information-policy of Bitmine AG?

Beeing shareholder isn't the same thing as beeing on the board of directors, which makes you liable if the company if fuck** up.

Do you want to say anyithing about the chines contractor? Fud?

Thanks for your reply.

Well, information-policy you say? It is obviously sub-optimal. If you are from Switzerland, you maybe should go and visit their offices in Ticino. You'll find hard working engineers who can't do their real job because their mobile is ringing every 20 seconds. You'll find that business is not always going as planned (actually: it never does) and folks are doing their best to meet their obligations towards customers. Believe me, those guys are very unhappy about the delays - I have them on Skype every night when I remotely work on fixing things and be sure none of us slept more than 4h a night over the past 2 months.

In light of that, all this talk about Bitmine having already working rig and self-mining is plain stupid. Even without the slightest idea on economical or mining context, it should be obvious that finalizing and selling products is the most profitable way to re-cover the enormous NRE costs that were spent. We made the first fully populated CoinCraft Desk working some days ago and mass production is ramping up just now. There are some users in this thread you can not convince by facts, but this is how things currently are.

To your other points:
There is no fuck**up happening in Bitmine. Things went differently than planned, but the company will keep their ToS products were sold after. That is, soon first buyers are entitled to request for refunds which will be granted. The more patient ones will get the CPP as agreed - we all have vital interests to make those rightfully angry and impatient buyers long term customers. CPP will cost a lot and eventually eat up all potential profits, therefore my personal fuck**up will be to lose all I invested so far.

As for the Chinese contractor: define FUD. At the beginning, there was someone from Asia who wanted to invest in Bitmine but finally did not. That's basically why there were shares left to offer to me.

I think swissmining questions your independence and bias towards bitmine. I don't think he doubts your workethic and efforts.

Until now I too had the impression you were some kind of independent consultant, but now it starts to look completely different.
Since you are on their payroll now, we can't expect you to say ANYTHING critical about them. That's a problem.

Seriously: check my post history. I never posted anything else than facts - nothing negative, nothing positive. How would that change the situation in any way? For those waiting for their miners it is irrelevant. Above that, I am engineer with zero PR or convincing capabilities.

If you doubt my objectivity now as shareholder, why didn't you do when I was a paid consultant? In both cases I would not badmouth the feeding hand, obviously.

So you invested in Bitmine SA? Or why do you hold a board position?

Because they think I am a nice guy who should be in the board? Because I put ~5k BTC into Bitmine? Because I work like a horse and delivered good results? I don't know, but that's how it is.


Hope I helped you to resolve some concerns. Now going back to finalize the CCD firmware and work on the rig variant. Sorry if I should not respond in realtime, but for sure you understand that there are more important things to do for now.

Zefir - i don´t see any issue with you being a shareholder as well as a member of the BOD. Actually just the opposite - I think that´s great for the company because other shareholders apparently are incompetent as hell!

Also I believe that bitmine DID ramp up their production NOW - but they didn´t do so in the last months it seems.

GeorgeM is absolutely right.
At the time when bitmine offered the first CoinCraft batch they should have known very well why almost all other mining hw manufacturer had massive delays (except KNC that is). Also they themselves had experienced the huge Avalon betrayal or fuck-up (Asic chip delivery) at that time - and should have known how to minimize such delays in the future and to plan accordingly.
Building a hardware company is a shitload of work; I think everyone is aware of that.

But to step on the plate and offer these products and emphasize as well as promise the special reliability of Swiss work ethics and blah blah is one thing - but then not even be able to communicate to their customers is as bad or worse than BFL, Avalon and the likes.

Communications is a hugely important part of every successful company and transparency is a huge part of that.
We had exactly ZERO transparency as to what was happening!
Giorgio **** ***** *** (removed due to emotional outburst) doesn´t even have the balls to tell the community what the hell is happening with the CoinCraft Rigs for example. Like a small child he is just ignoring the fact that customers (who paid for the most expensive products!) have a right to get informed because it influences their further investment decisions.

Until now an official 3 week delay by the chip manufacturer was given as an excuse but we have an actual 2,5 months delay - in a time when everyone would have made back his investment due to a favorable btc/fiat exchange rate plus btc difficulty.

And now it seems that not even the promised performance will be reached.

[tranquille]

The more I think about the Bord of Directors:

I think what bitmine would have needed in the beginning was an ACTUAL board of directors - now it´s too late.

Not operational folks that call themselves BOD but guys with experience in building a company and a strategic as well as tactical outlook!

[georgem]

Building a hardware company is a shitload of work; I think everyone is aware of that.

But to step on the plate and offer these products and emphasize as well as promise the special reliability of Swiss work ethics and blah blah is one thing - but then not even be able to communicate to their customers is as bad or worse than BFL, Avalon and the likes.

Communications is a hugely important part of every successful company and transparency is a huge part of that.
We had exactly ZERO transparency as to what was happening!
Giorgio this lying pos doesn´t even have the balls to tell the community what the hell is happening with the CoinCraft Rigs for example. Like a small child he is just ignoring the fact that customers (who paid for the most expensive products!) have a right to get informed because it influences their further investment decisions.

Until now an official 3 week delay by the chip manufacturer was given as an excuse but we have an actual 2,5 months delay - in a time when everyone would have made back his investment due to a favorable btc/fiat exchange rate plus btc difficulty.

And now it seems that not even the promised performance will be reached.

I for sure will look into every possible way to sue their respectively your 4sses.

+1

“You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.” Ayn Rand

This...



... does not free you of responsibility. In fact it only exposes your ass to some serious ass****ing.


Things don't go away if you close your eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt46WxdKUPQ

[vic0]

You can't really ramp up production when your prototype doesn't meet requirements.

Concerning the bad PR part, i'd rather have no update than something made up every Two Weeks™. Silence means you need to wait a little more, except you are not being manipulated.

Also, i just found out about the "ignore" function. Not that there is something to miss anyway.

[georgem]

You can't really ramp up production when your prototype doesn't meet requirements.

Concerning the bad PR part, i'd rather have no update than something made up every Two Weeks™. Silence means you need to wait a little more, except you are not being manipulated.

Also, i just found out about the "ignore" function. Not that there is something to miss anyway.

is that you giorgio? You'd rather "have no update", and "silence means you need to wait"

Your account vic0 seems to have been only created to justify misbehaviour of bitmine. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=195635;sa=showPosts

[zefir]

Also I believe that bitmine DID ramp up their production NOW - but they didn´t do so in the last months it seems.

Where do you know this? What if I tell you I saw 2000 PCBs that were prepared to ramp up production as soon chips arrive kicked in the trash-bin after testing showed the DCDC was not powerful enough?

GeorgeM is absolutely right.

Might be, but after I replied in a polite and civilized manner he put all his anger at me for no reason. That is not the way I discuss.

At the time when bitmine offered the first CoinCraft batch they should have known very well why almost all other mining hw manufacturer had massive delays (except KNC that is). Also they themselves had experienced the huge Avalon betrayal or fuck-up (Asic chip delivery) at that time - and should have known how to minimize such delays in the future and to plan accordingly.
Building a hardware company is a shitload of work; I think everyone is aware of that.

But to step on the plate and offer these products and emphasize as well as promise the special reliability of Swiss work ethics and blah blah is one thing - but then not even be able to communicate to their customers is as bad or worse than BFL, Avalon and the likes.

That is exactly the point. Why do you highlight KnC as the only successful company delivering (almost) as promised? I tell you why: they were the only one where the PCB was designed by the same company that did the chip. They knew exactly what to do to get the chip hashing as soon as put on the board. Everybody else had to go over (numerous) prototype revisions to learn the chip and adapt the HW - this is what is happening here. HashFast are no idiots, CoinTerra are not, and Bitmine engineers are neither.

Also, look at my DIY thread: I supplied 20 projects with chips for weeks now (among them the usual suspects: burnin, c-scape/intron, WASP, marto74) and only marto74 has demonstrated a working product so far - for a simple reason: he had a board for Avalon rev2 chips with verified DCDC block where he more or less replaced those chips with A1. No other project has provided a working design so far. See, it can not be that easy then.

Communications is a hugely important part of every successful company and transparency is a huge part of that.
We had exactly ZERO transparency as to what was happening!

This transparency does not come for free. It needs someone to collect the information and present it - which can only be done by Giorgio right now who has to take care on a ton of other things.

This does not mean I am not agreeing with you that transparency is bad so far. But we need to find a good balance between people asking for raltime updates on hourly basis and current practice of 'it is done when it is done' announcements. I see the issue and I am willing to improve it. My idea would be to have something like
a) weekly status updates
b) immediate announcement if previously stated deadlines can not be met

Is this something we could start with?

Giorgio this lying pos doesn´t even have the balls to tell the community what the hell is happening with the CoinCraft Rigs for example. Like a small child he is just ignoring the fact that customers (who paid for the most expensive products!) have a right to get informed because it influences their further investment decisions.

Please try to somehow control your anger. It is not helpful to get personal and insulting.

[Thracian]

re-cover the enormous NRE costs that were spent.

Just a quick tip, this is OUR pre-order money cash or BTC

[tvskit]

zefir, How to build a business model?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19bK7ArlnHw

[mmitech]

I don't know how didn't you notice the low activity/new accounts that have been trolling all over the forum lately, and how come that you are taking time to answer them, I also invested allot of money into PETA-MINE which will be getting most of their miners/chips from you, I was really nervous after not getting updates and being late for almost 2 months now, but answering the trolls and shills is just pointless.

there is a protection contract if you wait they will compensate you, and soon you will be able to request a refund. it is clear.


now that Bitmine are doing some progress and proved to have a working design, and if you waited all this time, just wait this next week to see if they start shipping (which I think they will) and stop repeating the same thing over and all over again.


as for labeling the Bitmine owners and investors here, what is the point of that ? you should do that before buying/investing, you wont change anything by posting what they own and whatnot....

[georgem]

GeorgeM is absolutely right.

Might be, but after I replied in a polite and civilized manner he put all his anger at me for no reason. That is not the way I discuss.

Please point out to me when exactly I got angry for no reason?

It infuriated me that you depicted legitimate customer questions as "disturbance" that keeps those hardworking engineers from working, because "their mobiles ring every 20 mins".

Come again?? That's really a harsh thing to say, especially in a pre-order money-upfront business this is an absolute no-go.

First this is a bulls**t obviously, because we don't have their mobilenumbers, and if they really keep their mobiles on while they work, they are asking for it. No one with good work ethic keeps his mobiles running while working. Especially electro engineers. So you want to tell me their mobile phone rings in their pocket, while they are working the soldering iron with a millimeter error margin?

Also: I think the only one who gets all the flac at bitmine is poor antonio who has to answer all the questions allthough obviously he has no "authority"/ "complete knowledge" to do so.
So he often had to guess... that's why many misconceptions and misrepresentations surfaced in the last few months.


Will this mess ever stop?

How long does bitmine plan to play this game like that?

[chillooooor]

[...]
This transparency does not come for free. It needs someone to collect the information and present it - which can only be done by Giorgio right now who has to take care on a ton of other things.

This does not mean I am not agreeing with you that transparency is bad so far. But we need to find a good balance between people asking for raltime updates on hourly basis and current practice of 'it is done when it is done' announcements. I see the issue and I am willing to improve it. My idea would be to have something like
a) weekly status updates
b) immediate announcement if previously stated deadlines can not be met

Is this something we could start with?

[...]

Mby u start with a news about the actual production status, because the week is over and still no coincraft is shipped...


edit:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5174 - little reminder 

[weaknesswaran]

Zefir did various groupbuys and mining projects in the past.

He did a great job solving the Avalon gen 1 chip disaster.

His post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3029465#msg3029465
convinced yifu to refund the orders.

Nobody in his groupbuy lost a single sathosi because of his efforts.

I believe he is doing the same thing here.

[xray]

I have 3 orders with Bitmine ,
I have never called or emailed them once ,
I come to this forum every day to see is there any update
I understand that they maybe working all hours God gives them and under stress

All i ask of them is to post some update information here so i feel that i am kept up to date with what is going on.
I have paid in FIAT Euro currency , that i had to work hard for

Shall i start calling them ?

[georgem]

Shall i start calling them ?

don't expect any wonders from it. They will simply string you along.