Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[jimmothy]

Oh crap, don't think I can get back my 5BTC if they deliver it on May. Best case scenario it will return 3BTC.

Its not impossible. Nobody knows what the difficulty will be in 2+ months and you also have to remember you can resell the miner for around half the original price.

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[SaeLk]

so we take all the risks, while looking on the bright side... if there is one, and BA can keep promising us the sky's the limit. YAY! *sarcasm

[de_ixie]

my deepest condolences 

[quantguy]

Guys (especially ones that are fluent with laws) do we have legal grounds for refund option here?

[cdog]

2 month delay, thats like 2 years in BTC mining. Basically there wont be any ROI - with even extremely conservative difficulty increases (60% per month), we are looking at ~15B difficulty for early May.

Even with a few extra 25% "bonus" hashes which is a complete joke, these arent going to be worth nearly as much BTC as we paid for them. 2 months time for BA to "test" them for us? Nice, how thoughtful.

Sometimes you gamble and win, sometimes you gamble and get BFL'd.

[notindexed]

1st batch order, got same mail.
Expected a delay of 2-3 weeks but May…

Byebye our ROI but we all mine for the networks sake don't we? ;P

Swarm out, spend, accept and promote btc and see u back in May.

[EricKennedy]

The bigger question is will BA deliver in May ?
I mean, does someone see anything else than an autocad render ?

A few days ago BA were telling they were on time, no problem. After silence. And then big delay announcement.
No legit company would communicate in such a way.

They obiously lied in their statements.
So what garantees do we have that their ASIC even exist for real ?

I've seen video of their previous PCB work ; but that was month ago.
The have cashed probably tens of millions of dollars with their pre orders.

Why should they even care about delivering something ?

If the product would really exist, they would post some pictures or video of the design.
I have huge doubts about the reality of their operations.

I'm not telling all this to troll, I have $60K in early orders at BA.

Eric

[BitCoins06]

i think we should all cancel our order

they knew this before sell us their damn shit

they take our money & im sure they had ZERO problem to order minion (rememer they where available for purchase imediatly)
& create a big miner for themself .....

this is 1000% sure that they did this ....


alll sucker im gonna ask refund, & tell them to fuck off, i would have more interrest to buy more GPU for my rigs than to send them 5 k dollars

this is unacceptable

[erk]

So it's Feb in two days and  now BA admit they haven't done tape out yet!

Definitely something fishy there.

[Unacceptable]

2 month delay, thats like 2 years in BTC mining. Basically there wont be any ROI - with even extremely conservative difficulty increases (60% per month), we are looking at ~15B difficulty for early May.

Even with a few extra 25% "bonus" hashes which is a complete joke, these arent going to be worth nearly as much BTC as we paid for them. 2 months time for BA to "test" them for us? Nice, how thoughtful.

Sometimes you gamble and win, sometimes you gamble and get BFL'd.

15B difficulty is 102,000TH or 102 Petahash,I'm not so sure of this............we're around 16+ Petahash now,maybe 20-25 by late feb.

My guess by May.......40 Petahash,unless everyone else ships EVERYTHING.....50 or so Petahash.

Where are these doom & gloom calcs

We in for a hard ROI,if at all,but lets be realistic 

[achimsmile]

I'm irritated. Did only Batch 2 customers get this E-Mail, is it may only for Batch 2?
So Batch 1 could ship a little earlier?

@bobsag3, is it possible to change my shipping address of a paid X-3 on the old shopping system?

[erk]

I'm irritated. Did only Batch 2 customers get this E-Mail, is it may only for Batch 2?
So Batch 1 could ship a little earlier?

@bobsag3, is it possible to change my shipping address of a paid X-3 on the old shopping system?

They haven't done tape out! understand what this means. 3months before they have any packaged chips for either batch.


I too would like to hear what minersource have to say about this, as that's where I placed my order.

[jtoomim]

If anyone wants to sell their preorder, I'm willing to buy one at 4.75 btc, a second at 4.5 btc, and a third and fourth at 4 btc. Subtract 0.2 btc from those prices if you paid your order after January 1st. PM me if you're interested.

[5craziest]

Guys
I'm not at all confident that you'll get your money back even if you try.  Several weeks ago, I went to the BA site and was looking around. I checked my invoice, and it had been altered.  I checked my original copy and verified I had purchased for a MARCH delivery.  The invoice had been edited to say it was now a MAY delivery.  I decided to request a refund on Jan 13th.  At first they didn't respond, then they kept asking clarification of what currency it had been paid in (bitcoin) stating that it had to be returned in the same denomination. On 27th they sent me an email saying the funds 'had left the bank'.  Strange place to keep bitcoin, so I asked for clarification and they apologized and said they meant to say they would pay in bitcoin.  They asked for a bitcoin address which I had given them numerous times.

Still no refund

On their internal forum people have been asking the same question about why their invoices had been altered.  The moderators have all been stating that it was a mistake, and just reflects what they are currently selling.  Then the email last nite.  BA has known they were gonna do this for a long time and have lied about it for weeks. Their inability to complete my refund goes way beyond ineptitude, and makes me wonder if anyone will get their money back

[sebdude420]

I ordered 10 prospero x-1 in december and was expecting delays but this is a bit more of a delay then i had expected.

just yesterday i sent in the money for antoher 20 prospero x-1. guess i should have put the money on cointerra instead.

oh well.

just makes current hardware that im mining with that much more valuable.

[zurg]

Well, what an interesting thing to wake up to.

I checked my email and nothing yet.. but ..ugh.. cant wait.. NOT.

What email address did this email come from?


Thanks

[jtoomim]

I do not wish to cancel my order, but the 25% / 4 months compensation for the breach of contract is not sufficient to cover the loss in mining capacity over the timeframe of the delay. I appreciate the fact that you are making an offer, but can you please review the level of this duration. My suggestion of what I would like to receive is 100% of my mining speed order, for 2 months duration minimum. This is the equivalent number of pure GH's that we're losing due to this delay. I know this doesn't account for the increase in difficulty, but it's a more acceptable offer in real terms.
[/li]

[/quote]

I think this is a pretty fair compromise. Sixty-five days at 2 TH/s is 11232000 TH or about 11.2 exahashes. We're losing 11.2 exahashes due to the delay, so I think BA should deliver us those 11.2 exahashes in the cloud as soon as they can. True, those exahashes won't have the same value in May as they would in March, but I'm okay with writing that off as a loss.

I think it would be hard for BA to deliver 100% for two months, though. That would mean they would have to produce double the volume of ordered miners just to meet those hashing obligations. On the other hand, 25% for 8 months would be too huge of a loss for the customers. I think 50% of the hashrate for 2x the length of the delay would be a reasonable compromise.

zurg, the emails were only sent to people who bought directly from Black Arrow, and haven't been sent to Minersource.net customers yet.

[zurg]

I do not wish to cancel my order, but the 25% / 4 months compensation for the breach of contract is not sufficient to cover the loss in mining capacity over the timeframe of the delay. I appreciate the fact that you are making an offer, but can you please review the level of this duration. My suggestion of what I would like to receive is 100% of my mining speed order, for 2 months duration minimum. This is the equivalent number of pure GH's that we're losing due to this delay. I know this doesn't account for the increase in difficulty, but it's a more acceptable offer in real terms.
[/li]

I think this is a pretty fair compromise. Sixty-five days at 2 TH/s is 11232000 TH or about 11.2 exahashes. We're losing 11.2 exahashes due to the delay, so I think BA should deliver us those 11.2 exahashes in the cloud as soon as they can. True, those exahashes won't have the same value in May as they would in March, but I'm okay with writing that off as a loss.

I think it would be hard for BA to deliver 100% for two months, though. That would mean they would have to produce double the volume of ordered miners just to meet those hashing obligations. On the other hand, 25% for 8 months would be too huge of a loss for the customers. I think 50% of the hashrate for 2x the length of the delay would be a reasonable compromise.

zurg, the emails were only sent to people who bought directly from Black Arrow, and haven't been sent to Minersource.net customers yet.

I bough 2 X-3's directly from BA.

[cesmak]

Pheewww !!!!

In october i was tempted to make a pre-order having 3 fpga bought from BA to redeem, but something said me to don't make the deal (My bad preorder bfl experience was here telling me to wait....)

I'm proud of myself to listen to my internal voice to "don't make the preorder !!!"

As someone else in this topic (at the begining) tells "stop the policy of preorder and using customers as bank to have founds", i will tell him "You are wise" i will follow tto, this line forever no more preorder with no asic manifacturer...

When they will be ready to ship in two days i will see if i will buy...

In this world, where the exact time vs. difficulty is the crucial key to se if an investment will make some profit, is not possible tu use a crowdfounding business model to produce new hardware.

I'm sorry for all the ones who make this deal.

Cheers.

[topminingcontracts]

Is not good at all not only for May, When all this started was Feb.

Looks like BA will be ready always in 90 days doesn’t matter when you ask is "in 90 days"

I said when all this started that this pre-order model where customers put the money to finance the company and they run with the risks but not the benefits is totally exhausted, just see BFL, Avalon, Cointerra, HashFast, KnC to say the more relevant... If we don't learn from the experience we have no future.

We are miners not an investment bank, if a Venture Capital don't invest in this companies why we should do it?

I believe in a model where if we "invest" we may get a fraction of the profit, in the other hand we bought from BA because we think is possible to make money and now the situation looks quite dark but if in May Bitcoin price is $6000.- we may forgot all this and smile again, if they deliver next week and Bitcoin goes to $260.- we will cry, is a highly volatile environment.

For me "alea jacta est" now we need to relax and wait there is not much we can do now is a waste of energy to cry on this.

TMC