[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[VolanicEruptor]

Not with the stock price in btc.  Conversions are another game.   Do you convert your shares of Petrobras priced in usd to Brazilian Real constantly, although most of their sales are in Reis?

when ken receives a US dollar for selling hardware, what do you think he does with it next if he wants to pay the shareholders?

He keeps it in USD. We also have miners which make BTC. Any USD taken in a sale should be kept in USD and used for operating expenses that are paid in USD which are probably most of our expenses. If he wants to pay shareholders he just sends out the BTC equivalent on that day to the dividend address. Theres no need to make conversions if our sales are good.

profit from usd sales are supposed to be converted to BTC and then paid to shareholders as dividends.  Profit is after expenses have been paid.

[Jasun7211]

Reading comprehension 099 please.   I was talking about converting share prices, not sales.  Now go re read the whole idea again so you understand the context re re.  We get your point on the machine sales inrelation to the btc/usd jump.  Youve mentioned that one, two, tree times before.  I agree with you on that....the actual share conversion price is what I was talking about in relation to Usd supply growth and btc supply growth.  .....just re read

[VolanicEruptor]

Reading comprehension 099 please.   I was talking about converting share prices, not sales.  Now go re read the whole idea again so you understand the context re re.  We get your point on the machine sales inrelation to the btc/usd jump.  Youve mentioned that one, two, tree times before.  I agree with you on that....the actual share conversion price is what I was talking about in relation to Usd supply growth and btc supply growth.  .....just re read

USD sales profit have a lot to do with BTC share price.  Its called earnings per share.  Look it up. 

[MilkyWayMasta]

Not with the stock price in btc.  Conversions are another game.   Do you convert your shares of Petrobras priced in usd to Brazilian Real constantly, although most of their sales are in Reis?

when ken receives a US dollar for selling hardware, what do you think he does with it next if he wants to pay the shareholders?

Hasn't Ken increased the prices of the miners recently according the the price jumps in BTC? For example, you can't expect a miner that costs $500 that nets you 1 BTC ($1000) to stay at $500 if BTC goes up to $2000.

[arousedrhino]

Not with the stock price in btc.  Conversions are another game.   Do you convert your shares of Petrobras priced in usd to Brazilian Real constantly, although most of their sales are in Reis?

when ken receives a US dollar for selling hardware, what do you think he does with it next if he wants to pay the shareholders?

He keeps it in USD. We also have miners which make BTC. Any USD taken in a sale should be kept in USD and used for operating expenses that are paid in USD which are probably most of our expenses. If he wants to pay shareholders he just sends out the BTC equivalent on that day to the dividend address. Theres no need to make conversions if our sales are good.

profit from usd sales are supposed to be converted to BTC and then paid to shareholders as dividends.  Profit is after expenses have been paid.

Ooh ya, good point, but does that also mean that he has to convert all that profit right away. I think it makes sense to build up a fiat reserve from the profit before distributing profits to shareholders that way if BTC is down and we need some cash we don't have to convert it. We can withdraw from the fiat reserve.

[Jasun7211]

Once again, Volanic, I agree with you.

Reading comprehension 099 please.   I was talking about converting share prices, not sales.  Now go re read the whole idea again so you understand the context re re.  We get your point on the machine sales inrelation to the btc/usd jump.  Youve mentioned that one, two, tree times before.  I agree with you on that....the actual share conversion price is what I was talking about in relation to Usd supply growth and btc supply growth.  .....just re read

USD sales profit have a lot to do with BTC share price.  Its called earnings per share.  Look it up. 

 You guys drink too much flouride.   Just read the context and carefully read the petrobras example.  Again I wasn't talking about sales and any mechanism of how the share price is formed sales, speculation, or btc holdings.  The response I gave was in light of valueing the shares after the fact.....but sometimes I forget how lazy you guys are. Its like fighting with a woman.  They fight for distance, instead of accuracy....so you guys win. 

[Stuartuk]

I agree with the earlier poster who was deleted for saying the mod policy on here  actively allows this dysfunctional thread to continue unabated.

Insults are fine, attacks on the CEO's character seem to be fine and obvious lies ate fine and manipulation seem to be fine.

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

[VolanicEruptor]

I agree with the earlier poster who was deleted for saying the mod policy on here  actively allows this dysfunctional thread to continue unabated.

Insults are fine, attacks on the CEO's character seem to be fine and obvious lies ate fine and manipulation seem to be fine.

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

those numbers are so exaggerated it insane.. duhh... its guna go to 1,000 bitcoins per share!!

[somestranger]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

[kleeck]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

Catch me up, please.  How many millions of shares are the dividends divided over now?

How many satoshis a week would each share get with 24 Th/s of mining capacity?

This is all easily obtained publicly available information.

[granitemouse]

I think it's going to be interesting this time around seeing what happens with the share price. There was a lot of liquidity in the BTCT days for people to discover a new security and give it a chance. Perhaps more securities will come to Cryptotrade once this goes live but this isn't the case now. I guess if people see it on reddit and the share price is rising, maybe people who aren't involved may consider it.

I think we will have a group of people looking to get out and also cash out for BTC now that it is substantially higher, and there will be another group of people who believe we are on the cusp of something big who will want to pick up cheap shares while they can. There is also the believe that there will be some tasty dividends from sales and mining. Most of the buy orders now are hoping there will be an opportunity to pick up bargain basement cheap shares. I think .0011 is still on the low side since we were doing above that on bitfunder before it's fall began to affect the price. That was still in a time of very little news or progress. The past .009 and the eAsic announcement .007 were still in the BTCT days. I guess it all comes down to who believes and who wants out. I think once this goes live we will probably climb to .003 - .004 within a few weeks as long as there is no bad news of delay. It's going to take a lot of progress and good news to get back to .007, but once this gets into full swing I think that is possible and more.

[Stuartuk]

On the contrary. ACtMs main product is btc - which has indeed gone up in value ten fold.

So our cost of production has stayed the same - as all component parts are bought with FIAT.

So all thing's bring equal our share price should be proportionally higher too.

The paper value of the company is inconsequential. Share price directly reflects the dividend yield figure. If btc was 100 or 3000 USD the number of btc we mine remains static - so the share price is almost entirely unrelated the the FIAT value of btc except where FIAT profit allows us to build more miners with the same percentage of mined coins.

[Stuartuk]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

I don't understand why your view is more valid than mine. Can you explain the working you have done to reach that conclusion?

[granitemouse]

On the contrary. ACtMs main product is btc - which has indeed gone up in value ten fold.

So our cost of production has stayed the same - as all component parts are bought with FIAT.

So all thing's bring equal our share price should be proportionally higher too.

The paper value of the company is inconsequential. Share price directly reflects the dividend yield figure. If btc was 100 or 3000 USD the number of btc we mine remains static - so the share price is almost entirely unrelated the the FIAT value of btc except where FIAT profit allows us to build more miners with the same percentage of mined coins.

I agree with this.

[VolanicEruptor]

mining is where the value can reach 10x levels.  Not through fiat sales

[somestranger]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

I don't understand why your view is more valid than mine. Can you explain the working you have done to reach that conclusion?

Why would the price go up 800% in a week when we have no proof that we even have miners shipping or going to work for us mining? You don't need fancy math to know that's not going to happen.

[keepinithamsta]

I feel like I'm just starting to repeat myself.  But without any sort of hard timeline or positive confirmation that the units or chips are even working, we shouldn't be counting on either sales or mining bringing us dividends because we're getting exactly 0.00000000 BTC from Active Mining chips.

[Mabsark]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

Catch me up, please.  How many millions of shares are the dividends divided over now?

How many satoshis a week would each share get with 24 Th/s of mining capacity?

This is all easily obtained publicly available information.

Since it's so easy, why don't you go ahead and answer the questions?

Since nobody bothered to answer I will.

If the network hash rate was at a constant 10 Ph/s and ActM had a constant 24 Th/s, it would have 0.24% of the network hash rate, mining 120.96 BTC per round. The round would last 14 days, since the hash rates were constant, giving 8.64 BTC per day. This would be distributed to 10 million shares until 0.0025 BTC per share had been paid, after which the number of shares would increase to 25 million.

According to the genesis block, the network hash rate is increasing by about 78% every 30 days, which is an increase of about 2.5% each day.

So, if the network hash rate was at 10 Ph/s and ActM brought 24 Th/s online, 8.64 BTC / 10 million shares gives 86 Satoshis per share per day, which would fall by 2.5% each day! 

[drawingthesun]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

Catch me up, please.  How many millions of shares are the dividends divided over now?

How many satoshis a week would each share get with 24 Th/s of mining capacity?

This is all easily obtained publicly available information.

Since it's so easy, why don't you go ahead and answer the questions?

Since nobody bothered to answer I will.

If the network hash rate was at a constant 10 Ph/s and ActM had a constant 24 Th/s, it would have 0.24% of the network hash rate, mining 120.96 BTC per round. The round would last 14 days, since the hash rates were constant, giving 8.64 BTC per day. This would be distributed to 10 million shares until 0.0025 BTC per share had been paid, after which the number of shares would increase to 25 million.

According to the genesis block, the network hash rate is increasing by about 78% every 30 days, which is an increase of about 2.5% each day.

So, if the network hash rate was at 10 Ph/s and ActM brought 24 Th/s online, 8.64 BTC / 10 million shares gives 86 Satoshis per share per day, which would fall by 2.5% each day! 

Thank you.

Math is a bitch sometimes.

Why is the network increasing at 78% and we are stuck at 24TH?

If we get to 24TH doesn't that mean we are able to continue to scale?

[keepinithamsta]

Math time?!

I figure after the 15m shares are activated, we're going to need a minimum of 0.8% of the network, or currently about 73.6Th/s to justify even the 0.0025 share price again. 

A complete platinum with 6 expansion units would net 24.576Ths.  Naturally 10 of these would net 245.67Th/s.  That would currently be about 2.67% of the network.  We could see slightly higher than 0.008 share price if ACTM manages that.

The insane 10% that Ken mentioned at one point would require 920Th/s if he started today.  That would require 225 expansion units or about 38 platinum rigs with 6 expansion units each.  That would net about 0.028BTC share price.

My figures are based on the 25-30% APY that bitcoin securities tend to follow in relation to dividends.

The real kicker?  If Ken wants to maintain a certain percentage, he's going to literally need to double ACTM's hash rate every month at the current increase rate.