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Author Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]  (Read 770358 times)
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Stuartuk
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December 22, 2013, 10:37:21 AM
 #5861

It's now Sunday, and our shares are still worthless because we are not on an exchange.
The inability to trade our shares means that we have no access to the Bitcoins they represent, which in turns means we have been defrauded.

If the ability does not exist to get our shares verified, then I doubt the ability exists to make anything else successful.


  

Your critique of my point is valid, and I think you raise a very relevant and on-topic point here. I will stop posting my views, as I'm clearly not allowed to, and bow down to the wisdom of posts like yours. Fantastic post VE, really makes sense, your logic is infallible, your evidence is flawless.

Hang on...your support has turned to Trolling at the flip of a switch. Looks like you have just belittled and undermined your entire history on here - your posts are just emotional little tantrums with no thought or analysis behind them. Ironic with you talking about acting like a little girl.
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December 22, 2013, 10:44:57 AM
 #5862



you mean we arent actually going to hit 0.04?  i had so much faith in StuarkUK's speculation math...

That's your first contribution to the thread in quite a while finflof. A worthy post to throw into the ring. You are adding real quality to the discussions on here.

No one mentioned price target, but dont worry, if you never miss an opportunity to stamp on someone's point then run back under your rock you will be doing well. Keep up the good work.
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December 22, 2013, 11:10:32 AM
 #5863

ActM should partner with CloudHashing....

Benefit for CloudHashing - well, they are currently buying expensive gear from others
Benefit for ActM - CloudHashing would provide revenue for massive expansion.

It's a very interesting idea if you think about it. ActM could provide hardware an a JV basis to CloudHashing, the instant return nature of CloudHashing (ie. people pay up-front) would mean the flow of cash back into ActM hardware would be phenomenal... Even at only 10% markup to CloudHashing no hardware costs it would be a super sexy cashflow cycle.

That, or ActM should rent out its own hashing power independently (possibly a better, although more complex, solution)

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December 22, 2013, 12:06:27 PM
 #5864

ActM should partner with CloudHashing....

Benefit for CloudHashing - well, they are currently buying expensive gear from others
Benefit for ActM - CloudHashing would provide revenue for massive expansion.

It's a very interesting idea if you think about it. ActM could provide hardware an a JV basis to CloudHashing, the instant return nature of CloudHashing (ie. people pay up-front) would mean the flow of cash back into ActM hardware would be phenomenal... Even at only 10% markup to CloudHashing no hardware costs it would be a super sexy cashflow cycle.

That, or ActM should rent out its own hashing power independently (possibly a better, although more complex, solution)

Actually, ActM should just offer cloud hashing.

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December 22, 2013, 12:33:53 PM
 #5865

ActM should partner with CloudHashing....

Benefit for CloudHashing - well, they are currently buying expensive gear from others
Benefit for ActM - CloudHashing would provide revenue for massive expansion.

It's a very interesting idea if you think about it. ActM could provide hardware an a JV basis to CloudHashing, the instant return nature of CloudHashing (ie. people pay up-front) would mean the flow of cash back into ActM hardware would be phenomenal... Even at only 10% markup to CloudHashing no hardware costs it would be a super sexy cashflow cycle.

That, or ActM should rent out its own hashing power independently (possibly a better, although more complex, solution)

Actually, ActM should just offer cloud hashing.

Actually they should just build every miner for themselves to maximise profit, unfortunately we have already sold some machines to customers. There is no more +EV option than building all miners for use by active mining unless we charge a figure for cloud hashing that would mean no ROI for customers.
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December 22, 2013, 01:00:54 PM
 #5866

ActM should partner with CloudHashing....

Benefit for CloudHashing - well, they are currently buying expensive gear from others
Benefit for ActM - CloudHashing would provide revenue for massive expansion.

It's a very interesting idea if you think about it. ActM could provide hardware an a JV basis to CloudHashing, the instant return nature of CloudHashing (ie. people pay up-front) would mean the flow of cash back into ActM hardware would be phenomenal... Even at only 10% markup to CloudHashing no hardware costs it would be a super sexy cashflow cycle.

That, or ActM should rent out its own hashing power independently (possibly a better, although more complex, solution)

Actually, ActM should just offer cloud hashing.

Actually they should just build every miner for themselves to maximise profit, unfortunately we have already sold some machines to customers. There is no more +EV option than building all miners for use by active mining unless we charge a figure for cloud hashing that would mean no ROI for customers.

are you sure actm have sold same miners to customers??

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December 22, 2013, 03:29:10 PM
 #5867

It's now Sunday, and our shares are still worthless because we are not on an exchange.
The inability to trade our shares means that we have no access to the Bitcoins they represent, which in turns means we have been defrauded.

If the ability does not exist to get our shares verified, then I doubt the ability exists to make anything else successful.


  

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December 22, 2013, 03:49:15 PM
 #5868

It's going to be the New Year before we can trade on CT and that's only my opinion.  I suggest everyone takes a break from this thread and go spend sometime with loved ones over the next couple of weeks.  This will give Ken a bit of space to do the same as I'm sure he's overworked and under stress from all the shenanigans.

By all means keep checking this thread for news, but let's not expect miracles at this time of year when people's priorities should be the family and not work.  If we can get Ken back, rested and energised then our investments are safer as his health is important to us all.

VE, you are starting to swing wildly again.  You are like a pressure cooker and probably on the verge, so why not do the same thing? Put your energy into your family and stop obsessing.  It's only money at the end of the day and not even guaranteed to bring you happiness.  While you sometimes point out how frequently some other people post, you, undisputedly post more than anyone else so this message really is for you as well.

 Smiley

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December 22, 2013, 03:57:33 PM
 #5869

When access to my money is not possible, I get angry.  Our shares are worthless until they are on a market.
If he actually sat down for a full work day I bet he could have manually assigned the shares.  It's not that hard.  There isn't that many shareholders to verify.

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December 22, 2013, 04:16:47 PM
 #5870

I'm sure that many of us are frustrated, but when you consider what we've all been through and how close we are to palpable breakthroughs, this time of year comes with it's own set of priorities for people like yourself and Ken who as family men have other obligations. 

I found my recent break from this thread of enormous value.  While I was sorely tempted to start posting again when I could see big gaping holes in some of the arguments the detractors were posting, I bit my lip and allowed things to run their course without me, and guess what?  My abstinence made no hoot of a difference.
Taking a step back, even for a while, allows us to consider our priorities which sometimes get lost when we allow ourselves to become fanatically absorbed in this thread. 



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December 22, 2013, 04:19:11 PM
 #5871

Keep reposting your demands and stamping your feet like the spoiled brat that you are VE.
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December 22, 2013, 04:34:14 PM
 #5872

I must be one of the few who really isn't to concerned about his shares
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December 22, 2013, 04:41:20 PM
 #5873

I must be one of the few who really isn't to concerned about his shares

+1 Ken already proved himself to me with the transfer from btctc to bitfunder.  This is just a continuation of the same scenerio. I actually can't wait for the panic/relief selling to grab more shares.    Seems like in general the bitcoin companies are solidifying.  CT has smoothed out now and improving.  JDBIF is right on the money with their calls.  The whole eco system seems to be all geling after these rough past 2months.

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December 22, 2013, 04:45:06 PM
 #5874

I am one of the many who has no choice but to care about VE's shares.  We need to get him the best price we can for his 50,000.  The thing with VE is that everything must be done NOW and that's reflected in some of the decisions he's made over the last few months.  Why wait until btct shares are moved to Bitfunder when your can pay $5000 to do it now? Why wait for the Advisory Board to do its job when you can try to barge in and become mortal enemies with a CEO?

I wish he realised that his shares will be worth more the longer it takes for them to get listed.  He wants out, there's no disputing that, but due to his knee jerk personality he's unlikely to make as much money as a calmer head would.

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December 22, 2013, 04:56:49 PM
 #5875

 The thing with VE is that everything must be done NOW

I'm not asking for much.  It doesn't take that long to verify shares.  All he has to do is work his way down a list and assign the shares to each address.  Then he sends this simple list to crypto-trade and trading can go live.  It's PAINFULLY simple, yet Ken has decided to deliberately delay this task.  Perhaps its his way of "having a hold of everyones balls".  It makes sense now, the way you guys act. 

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December 22, 2013, 05:05:43 PM
 #5876

The thing with VE is that everything must be done NOW

I'm not asking for much.  It doesn't take that long to verify shares.  All he has to do is work his way down a list and assign the shares to each address.  Then he sends this simple list to crypto-trade and trading can go live.  It's PAINFULLY simple, yet Ken has decided to deliberately delay this task.  Perhaps its his way of "having a hold of everyones balls".  It makes sense now, the way you guys act.  

It seems to be as simple as parsing a text file for to associated values and then using those two values to A. make the account. B assign it shares C. sending this information to said email address used to make the account.

EDIT: But I could and problem am missing something about why it is taking so long.
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December 22, 2013, 05:29:47 PM
Last edit: December 22, 2013, 06:26:09 PM by gnostication
 #5877

So many people here are treating AMC as though it were a real-world corporation.  It is not.

With typical valuation, you use a PE ratio of 10 or higher (generally accepted in the industry) on the assumption that your investment will pay off in 10+ years.  I personally don't anticipate most current cryptocurrency ventures to last longer than 3 years.  However, any speculation is just that: educated bets, at best.

I only "invested" because, rather than simply sit on the obvious deflationary-based increase in value that is inherent in the Coin, I wanted to help the ecosystem grow and *possibly* increase my Coin holdings in the process.  (Though any reward would only be the winnings of an educated bet.)

I only put in whatever I was willing to lose.  People who risked more than they were willing to lose are akin to compulsive gamblers, in my opinion.

Let the man (Ken and team) work.  Understand that it is completely out of your hands.  You invested for whatever reason.  Now let it be and wait patiently.

In patience, all good things may come.
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December 22, 2013, 05:51:37 PM
 #5878

 The thing with VE is that everything must be done NOW

I'm not asking for much.  It doesn't take that long to verify shares.  All he has to do is work his way down a list and assign the shares to each address.  Then he sends this simple list to crypto-trade and trading can go live.  It's PAINFULLY simple, yet Ken has decided to deliberately delay this task.  Perhaps its his way of "having a hold of everyones balls".  It makes sense now, the way you guys act. 

I think Ken is ahead of you VE. I think he realized he cannot trust the exchanges and is building something he can go back to should crypto-trade go down, and not have to go through this dilemma again.

I could definitely be wrong, but I'm basing this assumption on Ken's liking of Colored Coins and his experience as a programmer.

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December 22, 2013, 05:54:26 PM
 #5879

A typical valuation, you use a PE ratio of 10 or higher (generally accepted in the industry), with the assumption that your investment will pay off in 10+ years.  I personally don't anticipate most current cryptocurrency ventures to last longer than 3 years.

I also used P/E ratio to estimate future share price, but that only works, as you say, in a recognised sector (eg Utilities) in a real world market where companies amongst other things are regulated, have access to a wide choice of capital investment, have a whole sector to base annual profit forecasts on and where they slot into the wider eco-system you could say.


Dividend Yield is a far more sensible thing to asses price on with a Bitcoin start-up especially when divs are paid weekly in this sector.

So AM-PT were operating at an annualised D/Y of approx 3:1. I've suggested ACtM will become an open and accountable enterprise once it starts trading and machines start shipping so that 3:1 could easily become 5:1 as there will be more confidence around the long-term prospects of the company. A safe 5:1 is an exceptional annual return especially in an ever appreciating currency. That is why as BTC takes off higher through 2014 that 5:1 could become 10:1 or higher.

Now to estimate average and target share price you just need an estimate of VMC sales and ACtM farm size in relation to global hash.
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December 22, 2013, 05:57:01 PM
 #5880

So many people here are treating AMC as though it were a real-world corporation.  It is not.

A typical valuation, you use a PE ratio of 10 or higher (generally accepted in the industry), with the assumption that your investment will pay off in 10+ years.  I personally don't anticipate most current cryptocurrency ventures to last longer than 3 years.  However, any speculation is just that: educated bets, at best.

I only "invested" because, rather than simply sit on the obvious deflationary-based increase in value that is inherent in the Coin, I wanted to help the ecosystem grow and *possibly* increase my Coin holdings in the process.  (Though any reward would only be the winnings of an educated bet.)

I only put in whatever I was willing to lose.  People who risked more than they were willing to lose are akin to compulsive gamblers, in my opinion.

Let the man (Ken and team) work.  Understand that it is completely out of your hands.  You invested for whatever reason.  Now let it be and wait patiently.

In patience, all good things may come.

You seem to miss the very important point, actually the only relevant point to this whole conversation. Ken has stated twice now that we would be on an exchange by this time I believe. That isn't a huge cause for concern but it does need to be elaborated on. If we have passed the deadline he previously set, then he should give us a new deadline and a reason why we missed the first one. I believe we have a reason why we missed the first one, now we need a new deadline. Otherwise we can tell each other to be patient up until February and gain nothing for it.
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