[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[VolanicEruptor]

mining is where the value can reach 10x levels.  Not through fiat sales

Here's the problem:  Until the recent bitcoin rally, most of the ASIC profit was in hardware sales.  All the hardware produced thus far, with very few exceptions, was sold for more BTC than it mined in its lifetime.
Anyhow, Ken has already sold a pile of gear that's yet to be built & delivered (if the sales stuff wasn't total bull).

You've already said this before, and it was successfully argued against
And we refuse to repeat ourselves to you 

[drawingthesun]

The real kicker?  If Ken wants to maintain a certain percentage, he's going to literally need to double ACTM's hash rate every month at the current increase rate.

The time it takes to turn mined bitcoin into eASIC chips is very important here, but we have no idea about this one so nothing can be determined. The next important variable is the Bitcoin price. If the price keeps increasing it might be easier for Ken to order more chips, increase the amount of employee's building those chips etc...

But again those two most important variables are unknown to us and Ken only knows one of them, so the math really becomes a bitch fest because nothing solid can be determined. That is why I made my thread, it's small and light because we do not have much to go on, and this thread is constant rubbish.

All the math is shit too because everyone here is making so many fracking assumptions and everyone comes up with a share prices of either 0.000001 or 0.1 bitcoin/amc. This place is tiring because all of you simply argue back and forth with the same little information and giant bunch of wild assumptions.

I feel stupid reading this thread.

[keepinithamsta]

The real kicker?  If Ken wants to maintain a certain percentage, he's going to literally need to double ACTM's hash rate every month at the current increase rate.

The time it takes to turn mined bitcoin into eASIC chips is very important here, but we have no idea about this one so nothing can be determined. The next important variable is the Bitcoin price. If the price keeps increasing it might be easier for Ken to order more chips, increase the amount of employee's building those chips etc...

But again those two most important variables are unknown to us and Ken only knows one of them, so the math really becomes a bitch fest because nothing solid can be determined. That is why I made my thread, it's small and light because we do not have much to go on, and this thread is constant rubbish.

All the math is shit too because everyone here is making so many fracking assumptions and everyone comes up with a share prices of either 0.000001 or 0.1 bitcoin/amc. This place is tiring because all of you simply argue back and forth with the same little information and giant bunch of wild assumptions.

I feel stupid reading this thread.

Fair enough.  The one thing that is static is maintaining a percentage of the network nets you the same amount of BTC per week if your pool's luck stays relatively steady.  But you're absolutely right that speculation is basically useless when it comes to ACTM because we still don't and probably will never know anything.

[stuvwxyz99]

Sorry if this has been covered (this is a very big thread). I have tried to search but did not find a straight answer on this:

If I didn't transfer my shares on BitFunder to ACM-TENDER, what has happened to them, and can I regain control of them? If so, how?

[kingcrimson]

http://www.businessinsider.com/knc-sells-nearly-28-million-neptunes-2013-12

KNC has already sold the equivalent of Active Mining promised payback.

It may seem like bad news and could be, but it also shows how big the market is for a successful product.

Maybe it's not so unrealistic that Active Mining can pay back 0025

[VolanicEruptor]

You picked the most expensive configuration, you sad lonely little man....
the platinum version is competitive with cointerra for cost.  And somewhere wayyyy down on the bottom of the threat list we see Hashfast, which was supposed to ship in in september.  
You lose.

[equipoise]

Sorry if this has been covered (this is a very big thread). I have tried to search but did not find a straight answer on this:

If I didn't transfer my shares on BitFunder to ACM-TENDER, what has happened to them, and can I regain control of them? If so, how?

If you know your public Bitfunder address and you can sign with it you should be fine. You can find the very last Google's cache of Bitfunder assets list (1 Dec 2013, 18:13:31 GMT) here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbxit8c0mde7fs6/The-Very-Last-Google%27s-cache-of-Bitfunder-assets-list-1-Dec-2013-18-13-31-GMT.rar. If you didn't transferred your shares before those were automatically transferred your address should be one of the addresses listed.

[4ju5tice]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

Catch me up, please.  How many millions of shares are the dividends divided over now?

How many satoshis a week would each share get with 24 Th/s of mining capacity?

This is all easily obtained publicly available information.

Since it's so easy, why don't you go ahead and answer the questions?

Since nobody bothered to answer I will.

If the network hash rate was at a constant 10 Ph/s and ActM had a constant 24 Th/s, it would have 0.24% of the network hash rate, mining 120.96 BTC per round. The round would last 14 days, since the hash rates were constant, giving 8.64 BTC per day. This would be distributed to 10 million shares until 0.0025 BTC per share had been paid, after which the number of shares would increase to 25 million.

According to the genesis block, the network hash rate is increasing by about 78% every 30 days, which is an increase of about 2.5% each day.

So, if the network hash rate was at 10 Ph/s and ActM brought 24 Th/s online, 8.64 BTC / 10 million shares gives 86 Satoshis per share per day, which would fall by 2.5% each day!  

Thank you.

Math is a bitch sometimes.

ACTM will only have 24 Th/s? With atleast half of the manufacturing capability going towards the mining facility, that assumption means that the company will only produce 48Th/s or less. If you believe that, then you shouldn't have invested.

Yes, mining is an area with diminishing returns. Is that what you're trying to say? Or are you just trying to scare people with this obvious reality that hopefully investors are already aware of? Being a manufacturer of rigs, we have a HUGE advantage over non-manufacturing miners. Not only that though, even when mining becomes less profitable, we will receive income from software and hardware sales. Ken is smart and he is creating more consistent revenue streams in addition to the focus on mining. It's easy to forget when you're a part of the hype, but as they say, the people who sold shovels were the most profitable in the gold rush. We're a part of both sides of the gold rush. Ken has a lot to gain from this company being successful, and he has the most to lose from it not being successful. He's going to give everything to make this work. I believe he will.

That being said, if you want to get rid of your shares when we start trading, I'm sure you're not the only one. Bitcoin has gone up more than 1000% since a lot of us started investing in AMC. Investing is about making a profit, if you've made a profit in your eyes then by all means, do what you want. You can't lose money taking a profit.

Disclaimer: I don't really care where the share price ends up when trading starts. I think the dividends have the potential to be excellent.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the people in this thread. Psychologists could probably learn a lot from it. We've got a little bit of everything here. In the end, it doesn't really matter what any of the posters in this thread think. Things will happen how they happen. Fighting the stupid comments in this thread is impossible. Peace.

[stslimited]

ActM has individual units creating 24TH

the outfit itself will add many many PH to the network

[stuvwxyz99]

Sorry if this has been covered (this is a very big thread). I have tried to search but did not find a straight answer on this:

If I didn't transfer my shares on BitFunder to ACM-TENDER, what has happened to them, and can I regain control of them? If so, how?

If you know your public Bitfunder address and you can sign with it you should be fine. You can find the very last Google's cache of Bitfunder assets list (1 Dec 2013, 18:13:31 GMT) here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbxit8c0mde7fs6/The-Very-Last-Google%27s-cache-of-Bitfunder-assets-list-1-Dec-2013-18-13-31-GMT.rar. If you didn't transferred your shares before those were automatically transferred your address should be one of the addresses listed.

Thanks very much for your help. My address is in there. Since I didn't transfer in the tender, Ken won't automatically set me up on the new exchange, is that right? Does anyone know the process for those in my situation? I assume I will have to send someone a signed message, but who do i send it to and when?

[deizel]

Sorry if this has been covered (this is a very big thread). I have tried to search but did not find a straight answer on this:

If I didn't transfer my shares on BitFunder to ACM-TENDER, what has happened to them, and can I regain control of them? If so, how?

If you know your public Bitfunder address and you can sign with it you should be fine. You can find the very last Google's cache of Bitfunder assets list (1 Dec 2013, 18:13:31 GMT) here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbxit8c0mde7fs6/The-Very-Last-Google%27s-cache-of-Bitfunder-assets-list-1-Dec-2013-18-13-31-GMT.rar. If you didn't transferred your shares before those were automatically transferred your address should be one of the addresses listed.

Thanks very much for your help. My address is in there. Since I didn't transfer in the tender, Ken won't automatically set me up on the new exchange, is that right? Does anyone know the process for those in my situation? I assume I will have to send someone a signed message, but who do i send it to and when?

The process (signing, etc) will be announced here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=142728;sa=showPosts

[Entropy-uc]

ACTM will only have 24 Th/s? With atleast half of the manufacturing capability going towards the mining facility, that assumption means that the company will only produce 48Th/s or less. If you believe that, then you shouldn't have invested.

Yes, mining is an area with diminishing returns. Is that what you're trying to say? Or are you just trying to scare people with this obvious reality that hopefully investors are already aware of? Being a manufacturer of rigs, we have a HUGE advantage over non-manufacturing miners. Not only that though, even when mining becomes less profitable, we will receive income from software and hardware sales. Ken is smart and he is creating more consistent revenue streams in addition to the focus on mining. It's easy to forget when you're a part of the hype, but as they say, the people who sold shovels were the most profitable in the gold rush. We're a part of both sides of the gold rush. Ken has a lot to gain from this company being successful, and he has the most to lose from it not being successful. He's going to give everything to make this work. I believe he will.

That being said, if you want to get rid of your shares when we start trading, I'm sure you're not the only one. Bitcoin has gone up more than 1000% since a lot of us started investing in AMC. Investing is about making a profit, if you've made a profit in your eyes then by all means, do what you want. You can't lose money taking a profit.

Disclaimer: I don't really care where the share price ends up when trading starts. I think the dividends have the potential to be excellent.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the people in this thread. Psychologists could probably learn a lot from it. We've got a little bit of everything here. In the end, it doesn't really matter what any of the posters in this thread think. Things will happen how they happen. Fighting the stupid comments in this thread is impossible. Peace.

Half of nothing is nothing.  And if something ever appears you're going to be facing a 100 Ph/s network.  There are practical limits to scaling, as ASICMINER's spectacular fall clearly demonstrates.

I'd advise examining your own psychology.  Buyers remorse has moved to cognitive dissonance which has developed into outright delusional behavior.

[somestranger]

By the way I think actm share price will hit 0.01 within a week of us going live. And it will climb steadily until March where it will level off around 0.04

I think you are dreaming. The share price will likely stay below .0025 until we have some proof of miners shipping, or an announcement that we're adding 24.576TH/s of hash power with BTCGuild showing as much. Even then I think we will only get to about .005 and maybe .01 by March.

Catch me up, please.  How many millions of shares are the dividends divided over now?

How many satoshis a week would each share get with 24 Th/s of mining capacity?

This is all easily obtained publicly available information.

Since it's so easy, why don't you go ahead and answer the questions?

Since nobody bothered to answer I will.

If the network hash rate was at a constant 10 Ph/s and ActM had a constant 24 Th/s, it would have 0.24% of the network hash rate, mining 120.96 BTC per round. The round would last 14 days, since the hash rates were constant, giving 8.64 BTC per day. This would be distributed to 10 million shares until 0.0025 BTC per share had been paid, after which the number of shares would increase to 25 million.

According to the genesis block, the network hash rate is increasing by about 78% every 30 days, which is an increase of about 2.5% each day.

So, if the network hash rate was at 10 Ph/s and ActM brought 24 Th/s online, 8.64 BTC / 10 million shares gives 86 Satoshis per share per day, which would fall by 2.5% each day!  

Thank you.

Math is a bitch sometimes.

ACTM will only have 24 Th/s? With atleast half of the manufacturing capability going towards the mining facility, that assumption means that the company will only produce 48Th/s or less. If you believe that, then you shouldn't have invested.

Nobody said ACTM will only have 24TH/s. Read what you quoted...

[knybe]

Up close with a Bitcoin mining powerhouse

[Bargraphics]

Up close with a Bitcoin mining powerhouse

Nice video, Alex and the KnC team are good guys. About to jump on a plane back home from the Vegas bitcoin convention. A lot of missed opportunities for ActM. Par for the course I suppose.

[VolanicEruptor]

So it's the end of the week now.. and our great leader hasn't been online for 2 days.
If he's late with his promise, he could at least acknowledge that, instead of just hiding

[Mabsark]

A 24 Th/s system would require about 1500 chips. I wonder how many sample chips Ken was supposed to be getting?

The sample batch was supposed to be received in November, with low volume production in December and full production in around February. That's according to the time frame posted by Ken in the 2nd post in this thread and according to when he said he'd paid the NRE costs.

So, where are the chips? Pictures? Proof of mining?

Didn't Ken say he had to redesign the chips to work with Intellihash? How long is that going to take eASIC to implement? Another 9 weeks? Will Ken get new sample chips? If so when? If not and he moves straight to low volume production, what if the chips don't work properly?

The chips are already a month behind schedule and the reason given was basically equivalent to DownloadMoreRAM. And someone is asking for 0.006 per share!  0.00006 more like! 

[VolanicEruptor]

Which Great Leader do you mean? Ken or Kleeck?

So it's the end of the week now.. and our great leader hasn't been online for 2 days.
If he's late with his promise, he could at least acknowledge that, instead of just hiding

who's kleeck?  

[RoadStress]

http://www.businessinsider.com/knc-sells-nearly-28-million-neptunes-2013-12

KNC has already sold the equivalent of Active Mining promised payback.

It may seem like bad news and could be, but it also shows how big the market is for a successful product.

Maybe it's not so unrealistic that Active Mining can pay back 0025

To be precise:
KnC Neptunes: 3'000GH/s @ $12k = $4 per GH/s

Kenneth:


256GH/s @ $3599.40 = $14.06 per GH/s, or x3.5 times more expensive

And this is a prepaid order from Ken's Underground Fortress, with no shipping date
The closest thing to a shipping date on that site is this jewel:

Fast-Hash One Silver Edition Bitcoin Mining Machine
64 GH/s Expands to 6.144 TH/s                      <<Runs on advanced Chinese 12ax7 logic ??
Upgradeable To Next Generation
Hashing Cards
AVAILABLE FOR PREPAID PRE-ORDER ONLY
Limited Availability on these units (Shipping Starts November 2013)
ESTIMATED DELIVERY DATE WILL BE DISPLAYED UPON CHECKOUT                  <<pay up first, then we'll tell you when we ship

So yeah, comparing the virtual identity known as Active Mining to real companies could be pretty depressing.

It's amazing how easily are people fooled with pretty words!

[minerpart]

The chips are already a month behind schedule and the reason given was basically equivalent to DownloadMoreRAM. And someone is asking for 0.006 per share!   0.00006 more like!  

Mabsark, you were asked a few days ago how many ACtM shares you were still holding after you made a hasty exit 2 or so months ago to get into Labcoin. It looks like you sold them all then?

You clearly want to buy back into ACtM at the lowest price possible and this blatant FUDing just tells me that you actually value ACtM highly - otherwise why would you want to buy back in?

So yes, thanks for confirming through your FUD attempt that ACtM is indeed an excellent proposition - but really, we knew already.