[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[zefyr0s]

Sure, investors are free to request a refund and I doubt Ken will deny this (I don't really know as it hasn't happened yet.) But they also run the risk of having to get back in at the end of the line when evidence of production does actually come out.

We are at the point where a refund would be more profitable than holding onto the machine, even if they ship now.

Returns are in fiat, so no. Unless said person buys more btc and the price appreciates, then yes.

Sure, investors are free to request a refund and I doubt Ken will deny this (I don't really know as it hasn't happened yet.) But they also run the risk of having to get back in at the end of the line when evidence of production does actually come out.

With so many pre-order scams, people are beginning to confuse "investors" and "customers."
The guy pre-ordering a miner is called a customer.
The guy buying virtual shares in the Virtual Identity known as Active Mining could be euphemistically called "investor."

My mistake, I clearly meant customers.

[1715147712]

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[knybe]

If there are $6M in pre-orders for these machines that likely will never work, then can someone point me toward the thread where the pre-order customers are asking questions?
It is strange I do not see it.   Because all those people are in line to get their money back before any investor does (if they exist).

Exactly. Been wondering where all these happy and quiet vmc customers are myself.

This whole thing is such a pile of shit. Might as well add it to the list of bitcoin fails.

[knybe]

if ken would get these shares on an exchange, we could at least see our divs...we are owed divs since bf shut down...if we saw divs, that would quell a lot of the shit-storm of scam accusations.

I couldn't agree anymore.  This should be a priority along with the core business atm.

I don't know how much of a "priority" that "working on the core business" is when Ken is sitting on here all day deleting posts and not answering anyone's pertinent questions.

It's not ken deleting posts, at what point did you miss that?

It's forum moderators.

[fannybaws]

While people continue to feed the trolls and discuss rape, I suggest we deny them the airspace and consider more constructive discussion.

It seems that there is quite a big knowledge gap among shareholders in terms of the technical process of making an ASIC miner.  Words and phrases are being banded around by people who clearly don't understand the process and yet it seems no-one is keen to step up and attempt an explanation of where ActM might be in that process.  The way I (mis) understood the recent announcement was that the RTL thingy applied to the boards themselves and not the chips.  Could it be that the chips are all fine and ready to go but the boards are being redesigned?

Here's what I propose.  A more technical minded shareholder posts a brief explanation of the process as a kind of timeline in list form.  We then discuss where we think we 'could be' on that list and from that we formulate specific questions to put to Ken.  There are enough clues out there to do just that and I would gladly step up but am lacking the technical knowledge to do so.

I'm more than happy for someone else to suggest a better use of our energies, but the sooner we steer this conversation away from talk of rape and fantasy prosecutions resulting in a quicker fantasy implosion of this business, the sooner this whole episode can be put behind us and we can move on.  And that's what will happen at some stage, this episode will be behind us and we will have moved on.  Now who wants to speed this up with me?

[Bargraphics]

<Bargraphics> there's no class action on this type of case
<Vigilante> BG, are you not a shareholder?
<Bargraphics> Yes I'm a shareholder of an unregulated company in belize
<uhm> well as you see i dont have any experience in these type of stuff but i'm willing to donate to get this started
<Bargraphics> the only people that have experience in this will not start it
<Bargraphics> I promise you
<Vigilante> OK, why is that?
<Bargraphics> you have to literally understand you are putting good money after bad
<Bargraphics> to want to do this

Bargraphics is completely right - let's discuss the potential outcomes.

1. you run out of money before you get a verdict, then have to cover the other sides costs (most likely)
2. you lose, and have to cover both sides costs (very likely)
3. you win, but all the winnings only cover legal expenses and put your investment out of business. (least likely)
4. you sit back, and see what happens, and you might get rich, or your shares might be worth nothing.

Options 1,2, & 3 look great. Good thinking team. /sarcasm

As usual crumbs misquotes by only taking a snippit of the IRC conversation (I recommend all shareholders visit the IRC regardless if this troll is in there (He never talks so it's all good)

Vince does a good job at explaining the steps.

There are a few people in the IRC chat that want to take legal action to try and get their money back and I have told them that they should do it and report back to us but also told them what to expect so they are not just throwing good money after bad. All the Pre-orders would have to be refunded to customers, since Ken only took "$1M supposedly" just for the NRE for eASIC that means he would have most likely had to dabble in Pre-order money. So once all the pre-orders get refunded (and I imagine that there is probably lack of money to do even this) then shareholders would get the remainder split based on shares and still likely have to pay legal costs for the case.

That leaves two options in my mind, a criminal case by contacting the SEC and letting them do all the work and pretty much be guaranteed to never see any money again but it would likely result in anyone involved within management to be in serious trouble which might feel good for some of you seeking revenge or since we know there is an eASIC contract we can just wait and see if there is a recovery of this project from the new teams and potentially recover some money that way.

Basically do whatever you guys feel needs to be done as no one else is going to do it for you.

[minerpart]

Springfield, Mo – May 22, 2013 – AMC has announced today that they have started the process of porting their Bitcoin mining code to a FLip Chip 672 45nm. The port of AMC's code to this chip is expected to provide over 6 GH/s of hashing power per chip. AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

45nm chips really?? who is AMC? and how long have you been working on this project?
Can you provide us some real pictures?

AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

We have been working on this project for a little over a year.

Not yet,  but we are working on it.

So in May 2013 we were close to having hashing 45nm chips? We never saw the pictures I guess (I wasn't around then) but could this be what the shipped products are based around? Or was Ken making it up in May?

[hobbymd]

if ken would get these shares on an exchange, we could at least see our divs...we are owed divs since bf shut down...if we saw divs, that would quell a lot of the shit-storm of scam accusations.

I couldn't agree anymore.  This should be a priority along with the core business atm.

I don't know how much of a "priority" that "working on the core business" is when Ken is sitting on here all day deleting posts and not answering anyone's pertinent questions.

It's not ken deleting posts, at what point did you miss that?

It's forum moderators.

it is not the moderator, my deleted posts explicitly said it was deleted by the starter of this thread . if it was a moderator then you know it was deleted by a mod because it says in your pm message. Whoever was using ken's ( be it him or not) account thought by deleting posts can control the bomb shell that was dropped by the weekly update.

[byt411]

May I ask when we will finally get our shares back?

[drawingthesun]

The way I (mis) understood the recent announcement was that the RTL thingy applied to the boards themselves and not the chips.  Could it be that the chips are all fine and ready to go but the boards are being redesigned?

From what I have read, the RTL process is before the ASIC being made process, because ASIC's do not need software (that's the point, the software is very minimal to drive the ASIC logic).

So we are still behind the making the first ASIC chip stage. I reckon the prototypes just did not work with the boards and both the boards and chip needed to go back to the drawing board.

[Bargraphics]

Springfield, Mo – May 22, 2013 – AMC has announced today that they have started the process of porting their Bitcoin mining code to a FLip Chip 672 45nm. The port of AMC's code to this chip is expected to provide over 6 GH/s of hashing power per chip. AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

45nm chips really?? who is AMC? and how long have you been working on this project?
Can you provide us some real pictures?

AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

We have been working on this project for a little over a year.

Not yet,  but we are working on it.

So in May 2013 we were close to having hashing 45nm chips? We never saw the pictures I guess (I wasn't around then) but could this be what the shipped products are based around? Or was Ken making it up in May?

Obviously he didn't have a full business plan put together yet and figured he could only get away with 45nm with an IPO on here. So once he struck a deal with eASIC 28nm he then put that plan into action instead of a 45nm. Also based on his post he was going to do a 45nm Standard-Cell not FPGA Copy. It would cost just about the same as the 28nm eASIC (Probably more if he was planning on doing a flip-chip as that packing is not cheap)

To answer the Bold, the answer is NO, porting anything over is the very first step once you contact a backend design company. Then you get to wait around 12 weeks for them to finish that, 8 weeks for the mask, 8 weeks for the wafers.

[damiano]

freenode irc?  what channel?

[Bargraphics]

freenode irc?  what channel?

Freenode #ActiveMining

[VinceSamios]

<Bargraphics> there's no class action on this type of case
<Vigilante> BG, are you not a shareholder?
<Bargraphics> Yes I'm a shareholder of an unregulated company in belize
<uhm> well as you see i dont have any experience in these type of stuff but i'm willing to donate to get this started
<Bargraphics> the only people that have experience in this will not start it
<Bargraphics> I promise you
<Vigilante> OK, why is that?
<Bargraphics> you have to literally understand you are putting good money after bad
<Bargraphics> to want to do this

Bargraphics is completely right - let's discuss the potential outcomes.

1. you run out of money before you get a verdict, then have to cover the other sides costs (most likely)
2. you lose, and have to cover both sides costs (very likely)
3. you win, but all the winnings only cover legal expenses and put your investment out of business. (least likely)
4. you sit back, and see what happens, and you might get rich, or your shares might be worth nothing.

Options 1,2, & 3 look great. Good thinking team. /sarcasm

If people only filed rape reports when it was financially advantageous for them, rapists would be free to continue with their rapings.
You have been raped, punked, what have you.
I applaud you for "sitting back and seeing what happens."
*There are people who actually believe in things like justice, and don't enjoy surprise butsecs of the Slaughter variety.

Thankfully this is the difference between criminal and civil - although Bargraphics rightly points out that if things don't get sorted then there may be a criminal case to answer for, but trying to get that ball rolling would end us all up with nothing, whereas I'm still confident ActM will eventually come up with something. We aren't particularly overdue and we don't know the extent of the problems.

Business != Rape

Risk != Rape

Profit != Risk Free

[fannybaws]

freenode irc?  what channel?

Freenode #ActiveMining

Any chance the reCAPTCHA can be made accessible for humans? What a joke!

[drawingthesun]

freenode irc?  what channel?

Freenode #ActiveMining

Any chance the reCAPTCHA can be made accessible for humans? What a joke!

Use a client program, I access the room all the time and never have reCAPTCHA

[Bargraphics]

freenode irc?  what channel?

Freenode #ActiveMining

Any chance the reCAPTCHA can be made accessible for humans? What a joke!

lol you can click on the audio button!

[VinceSamios]

BTW - Anybody who invested in this and didn't have a reasonable expectation that there was a 50% chance they would lose their money is... a... dumb fuck. I tried to be more civil on that, but... it's the most accurate phraseology I could come up with.

So lets say we all lose all our money - you are equally as much to blame as Ken. Think about it people, greed begets pain.

[Bargraphics]

<Bargraphics> there's no class action on this type of case
<Vigilante> BG, are you not a shareholder?
<Bargraphics> Yes I'm a shareholder of an unregulated company in belize
<uhm> well as you see i dont have any experience in these type of stuff but i'm willing to donate to get this started
<Bargraphics> the only people that have experience in this will not start it
<Bargraphics> I promise you
<Vigilante> OK, why is that?
<Bargraphics> you have to literally understand you are putting good money after bad
<Bargraphics> to want to do this

Bargraphics is completely right - let's discuss the potential outcomes.

1. you run out of money before you get a verdict, then have to cover the other sides costs (most likely)
2. you lose, and have to cover both sides costs (very likely)
3. you win, but all the winnings only cover legal expenses and put your investment out of business. (least likely)
4. you sit back, and see what happens, and you might get rich, or your shares might be worth nothing.

Options 1,2, & 3 look great. Good thinking team. /sarcasm

If people only filed rape reports when it was financially advantageous for them, rapists would be free to continue with their rapings.
You have been raped, punked, what have you.
I applaud you for "sitting back and seeing what happens."
*There are people who actually believe in things like justice, and don't enjoy surprise butsecs of the Slaughter variety.

Thankfully this is the difference between criminal and civil - although Bargraphics rightly points out that if things don't get sorted then there may be a criminal case to answer for, but trying to get that ball rolling would end us all up with nothing, whereas I'm still confident ActM will eventually come up with something. We aren't particularly overdue and we don't know the extent of the problems.

Business != Rape

Risk != Rape

Profit != Risk Free

Please stop responding to crumbs if at all possible.

[fannybaws]

...The way I (mis) understood the recent announcement was that the RTL thingy applied to the boards themselves and not the chips.  Could it be that the chips are all fine and ready to go but the boards are being redesigned?...

Lol no. RTL has nothing to do with boards.

Why are you laughing at someone because you have knowledge they don't.  Is that why you turned out like this?  Your teachers couldn't stop laughing at you was it? Fucking twat.

[drawingthesun]

BTW - Anybody who invested in this and didn't have a reasonable expectation that there was a 50% chance they would lose their money is... a... dumb fuck. I tried to be more civil on that, but... it's the most accurate phraseology I could come up with.

So lets say we all lose all our money - you are equally as much to blame as Ken. Think about it people, greed begets pain.

Thanks mate, I invested with the expectation of about 25% returns. I never really thought myself greedy.

Ken might have had hard issues and he may have had to do certain things, and if he was open and transparent about this I would not be so annoyed at the situation.

We have no idea what happened and what is going on.