[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[zumzero]

Why doesn't it jive that Ken gave a customer some test chips to play with pending a rather large contract?

I'm trying to think outside the box that is all.

If there were chips at all, we would have been shown evidence of them... "Hey, guys. Here are the chips hashing! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! 2014 is looking magnificent!"

But you said:

What IF his silent pre-orders were commercial? What if there was a large contract and perhaps the 'products' were chips pending a $M order?

Suggesting that the shipped products were part of some commercial multimillion dollar order... Ken just told us that we had to start over cause nothing worked. Why would Ken tell us that we have gotten nowhere if he just supplied an order to a commercial company?

It is as simple as this: If there were chips, fully-functional or even partially functional, and this whole deal is legit, we would have seen evidence of them in some way. The only way there could be chips and we weren't shown them is if someone wanted us to think this whole thing failed... "Hey guys, we have had some difficulties with the chips and we have hired the best RTL and we are still working on boards."

[quote  author=zumzero link=topic=297503.msg4452631#msg4452631 date=1389467727]
As we speak eAsic and the board manufacturers are having a meeting with Ken.

It's fair to say that we all agree that as a conference call it ain't gonna work.  Let's hope Ken has his game face on.  

More hear-say and assumptions. You do not know this to be true.
[/quote]

Look Vigil, I like you, I really do.  

I've read some pretty impressive chat today from crumbs and the other dude and I know my place.  I bow to your knowledge also but I need to reiterate that I was merely trying to come up with an explanation for the 'shipped our first products' statement.  If can't do that then I fuel the hysteria do I not? But that doesn't even come into it for me because I simply do not see 'scam' the way perhaps you do?

Here we go..

* wrong assumption to think Ken would shout from the rooftops the moment he had working chips.
* wrong. Ken most certainly did not tell us that nothing was working and that is merely your take on things and has no basis in scientific observation.
* wrong.  There is more than one possible outcome to their being fully or partially functioning chips wether or not there is public knowledge of that fact.
* double wrong. To say that the only way there could be chips is because Ken's motivation is to prove to us that the company has failed is, erm, double wrong.

I keep telling you that I like and respect you.  I genuinely do.  if I was your mate I would pull you to one side, but I'm not so I can't.  All I can do is be respectful of your opinion, and that I am.  

[chsados]

Lol crumbs, you just posted information which the the best news we have heard in ages.  This was going to be sat on because it is obvious that you trolls would just have something else to attack, so why feed you?

So go ahead folks, now the cat is out the bag, read it in context.  This is very bullish news indeed!  

Here, I will help....


IRC chat in the last few minutes...

[19:28] <abillionhorses> Just that there is a meeting this weekend with the board designers and another with eASIC.  Forum coming for investors, SEC fears stop ACTM from developing trade portal (they dont want to fuck their company or investors)...sounds to me like we will be waiting for CC or similar (good).  BTCtalk posts have been thin due to eASIC NDA and Ken's policies...this is due to competition and annoying
[19:28] <abillionhorses> immature teenager like attitudes being dealt with on the forums in the past (decided they didn't want to deal with that--i dont blame em).  Hearing how gerald spoke, his tone of voice and the professional intro recordings at VMC plus this info is enough to me that this is definitely not a scam (I wasn't perfectly sure before) and that we are just facing delays.  After looking at ken's
[19:28] <abillionhorses> original timeline we are not delayed as much as some trolls would make you believe...2 months MAX--fine with that.  I'm gonna take a chillpill and step back and watch
[19:29] <shaofis1> Would be nice if Ken would give some indication how far behind schedule he might be... if anything to help preserve pre-orders... those who have ordered are reading this and coming to the same conclusions we all are.
[19:30] <fannybaws> haw, minerpart.  YouTube Limmy: Requiem. Lasts 3:38
[19:30] <minerpart> I never doubted this project. We will all at the very worst get our BTC back. Yes BTC. Have a good weekend guys. This aint over yet.
[19:31] <abillionhorses> ehh yeah...he will let us know at some point IMO but he also reserves the right to tell us when he wants to tell us (for sake of the company--competition etc).  I wouldnt let my competitor know my timeline either...so eh it depends how you look at it.  I dont see it as nefarious

which channel are these conversations taking place in?  #bitcoin-assets?

[zumzero]

#ActiveMining

Don't do what I did though. My God, the reCAPTCHA is unbelievably hard if you are a human!  Good luck buddie.

[stenkross]

Kens Linkedin has an endorsement from the sales director of Stilwell Baker Inc... I guess we're reasonably confident these were the first PCB engineers then? I thought they were super reliable?

It makes no sense that Stilwell baker would screw up, they handle projects much more complex than this. However one day when Ken tells the story I am ready for many surprises.

Here's my theory:
What is making this fail is Ken's lack of communication skills.

We have all seen it with his posts, especially in the early days of this venture (I've been in this since first IPO).
Running a business where you engage other business partners requires clear communication for everything to run smoothly.
Maybe eASIC / Stilwell baker are flawless companies, but the simply can't co-operate with the CEO of ActM, and therefore we "need to switch to other firms", causing delays, etc.

This makes even more sense when you think of what happened to the advisory board....

Not sure what could be done about it though, send Ken to a social skills course?

[zumzero]

Oh my. A like minded soul. I will PM immediately. 

[drawingthesun]

What's the sentiment at the moment? I feel that investors are feeling a little better?

[minerpart]

Here's my theory:
What is making this fail is Ken's lack of communication skills.

Maybe eASIC / Stilwell baker are flawless companies, but the simply can't co-operate with the CEO of ActM, and therefore we "need to switch to other firms", causing delays, etc.

This makes even more sense when you think of what happened to the advisory board....

Not sure what could be done about it though, send Ken to a social skills course?

Now this is an interesting line of questioning. You could be right. But I've always thought the short comments on here are to do with time and a worry that Trolls will twist what he says - which is exactly what crumbs specialises in. Crumbs heavy presence on here might be keeping Ken away. Yes Ken's a grown man but I'm sure we all know how Trolls can wind you up and draw you into an argument and in the end there is no setting the record straigt as Trolls don't listen and are experts at twisting the truth.

All I would say is that if you read the IPO and you read the progress report you see a good standard of English and excellent communication skills. That's what a lot of people invested in - the strength of the IPO proposal as expressed by Ken.

[zumzero]

Here's my theory:
What is making this fail is Ken's lack of communication skills.

Maybe eASIC / Stilwell baker are flawless companies, but the simply can't co-operate with the CEO of ActM, and therefore we "need to switch to other firms", causing delays, etc.

This makes even more sense when you think of what happened to the advisory board....

Not sure what could be done about it though, send Ken to a social skills course?

Now this is an interesting line of questioning. You could be right. But I've always thought the short comments on here are to do with time and a worry that Trolls will twist what he says - which is exactly what crumbs specialises in. Crumbs heavy presence on here might be keeping Ken away. Yes Ken's a grown man but I'm sure we all know how Trolls can wind you up and draw you into an argument and in the end there is no setting the record straigt as Trolls don't listen and are experts at twisting the truth.

All I would say is that if you read the IPO and you read the progress report you see a good standard of English and excellent communication skills. That's what a lot of people invested in - the strength of the IPO proposal as expressed by Ken.

+1

stenkross, I shunned the option to join the board because I know what I am like.  Far too emotional.  I had a really good feel for the internal sentiment although was never privy to the inner workings and that suited me fine.  I invested a relatively small amount of cash at 0.0005 which gave me a large number of shares early doors. I had plenty of opportunity to bail and could have netted well over 900 btc if I'd played my cards.  I regret not having done so, but ha-ho, thems the breaks.  I actually continued to buy all the way up to 0.025 and that was my upper limit prior to the eAsic deal.  If I loose the lot, it's only 3 months wages to me, but a lost opportunity that could have, potentially made me a very rich man indeed, like many multiples of millions of pounds.  

Here is why I'm still in the race and never chose that exit strategy;  my initial gamble was, for me, a fifty-fifty for it being a scam. Not scam: proven over seven months ago.  Vbs who I know was not affiliated with AMC made the most beautiful spreadsheets.  When he made mention of the facts, like sweet, sweet divs, I did my calculations and was blown away.  The beauty was, vbs then said, 'These are the projected figures from the mining farm and I haven't even included the figures for hardware sales which are so unimaginable that I can not include them because there are too many unknowns at this stage.', or words to that effect.  I well knew at the time that even Vbs's projections were reliant on so many factors that to assume you've hit the jackpot was pure fantasy.  So I started to look at the main man Ken.

A lot has changed in the btc securities since then.  Back then I also sold my AM shares for 4.5 having bought in at 1.5, so happy days.  I also threw 50btc at Labcoin and lost the bloody lot (serves me right for being such a troll).  I also made a small killing from ActM when the killer BF announcement broke because I reluctantly, and for  the first time, sold ActM on the news and bought back in again, the same number of shares so spent my profit on NEO. During all of this I couldn't help but consider that I was being played by Ken S.  I knew his address and family well before Canadian Guy got involved and interestingly enough, Ken was the only guy that I could see who was happy enough to expose himself.  For that he got my respect.

So there is my story and you don't get a more Scottish man than that.  I am no sock puppet.  I am simply just another dude who can not abide injustice and will always react to it.  

In terms of AMC/VMC, I still hear the words of a dude who was heavy in.  None of you will ever know about that because it's gone. This guy said to me, "This is Ken's baby and having got to know him I do believe that he of all people is the kind of guy that will make it happen through his sheer bloodymindedness."

Those words are still ringing in my ear and every time I see a spark from Ken it reminds me why I'm still the biggest cheerleader.  So have a fucking go at me, I do not give a flying shite.  I will have my day in the sun and so will EVERYONE who shares my belief.  Don't underestimate the power and will of a proud man to succeed.

[stenkross]

Don't underestimate the power and will of a proud man to succeed.

I also was blown away by Vbs spreadsheet. That was the main reason I invested in AMC.

I hope you are right.
I remain in the sceptic corner though.

[smiley35]

In terms of AMC/VMC, I still hear the words of a dude who was heavy in.  None of you will ever know about that because it's gone. This guy said to me, "This is Ken's baby and having got to know him I do believe that he of all people is the kind of guy that will make it happen through his sheer bloodymindedness."

Those words are still ringing in my ear and every time I see a spark from Ken it reminds me why I'm still the biggest cheerleader.  So have a fucking go at me, I do not give a flying shite.  I will have my day in the sun and so will EVERYONE who shares my belief.  Don't underestimate the power and will of a proud man to succeed.

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP

But seriously, someone has to balance out the trolls.

[zumzero]

Yep, I walked into that one but unlike many people here I have the ability to put the cards on the table every now and again.

[tslimx]

Burning your money an throwing it out the window as you drove down the road would of been better.

[iSnow]

Burning your money an throwing it out the window as you drove down the road would of been better.

Wow look! A Mr. 20/20 in hindsight.

[JoTheKhan]

Burning your money an throwing it out the window as you drove down the road would of been better.

Wow look! A Mr. 20/20 in hindsight.

Not 20/20 though. Burning your money would not have led to a better outcome.

[Puppet]

What type of a deal?  Was there a projected timeline?  Was there a time of performance clause?  Did money change hands?  Please don't introduce "defacto standard agreements," this is anything but standard, as time-critical a project as I could think of.  The company worth drops by the same percentage as difficulty rises.  Every week.

Which is *exactly* why a 28nm structured asic was a good idea to begin with. Nothing else gives you the chance to bring a 28nm chip to market faster.  Now hindsight is 20/20 and you can argue Ken should have picked a proven, existing process, but Im not aware of any existing single mask 28nm process (altera hardcopy is available but it works differently and is probably far less suited). So he basically would have had the choice between a proven 45nm chip, that would barely be competitive with BFL 65nm parts,  and a more risky 28nm implementation that would remain competitive much longer, and with a relatively straightforward migration path to full asics. Ive not talked to eASIC either, but just from what I know, I would have rated that risk pretty low and have gone for 28nm myself.

Are *THEY* the engineering company that he just fired?

Obviously not. But if you think the substrate and PCB are the easy parts, talk to HF.

Do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise?  The "dramatically reducing .. time-to-production" claim does not apply to a process that is still in development.

It does. Or at least should have. Its not like 28nm itself is new or unproven, neither is eASIC's nextreme. Porting of their nextreme wafers to 28nm is not something Id have considered high risk. 6 months later its easy to say differently, but do keep in mind, if next week working chips are demo'd, they still have a chance to beat HF and Cointerra, and they have been developing their asic for far longer and will have spent a whole lot more on NRE. Whatever the cause of the current delays, the decision to go with Nextreme 3 was quite a sensible one.

[SebastianJu]

Since you've been deleting forum posts for the last few hours, how can you claim to not have time to finish the "verification interface"? Surely your time would be better spent getting the "verification interface" up and running than wasting time deleting forum posts that people will just repost anyway?

Indeed... thats strange. Either he has no time or he has time to delete posts he doesnt like. I dont know. The only other solution is that that work is done by others but he always is saying he cant work on the shares because he has to work on the core of VMC. That contradicts that he has time to delete posts here...

Are you talking about kslaughter's outright lie from the official "progress report?"

Active Mining Corporation (Belize)

PROGRESS REPORT

As of November 30th 2013

...
Shipping:

We have this last week shipped our first products to customers.

...

I believe this lie will hurt him the most when it comes to criminal fraud accusations. 

I dont see him hurt. I guess thats again some piece of ken's rhetoric's. He probably shipped the prototype to a customer. Then he could claim that he started to ship miners. And thats why we never got another profit of that prototype board after the testrun.
So no, i dont see that a sling can be made out of this.


So can someone enlighten me? Ken hired an RTL team and that means he is designing the chip again? After the protoype already worked? I have read the last update the way that he redesigns the board to meet intellihash. If he really redesigns the ASIC's that means eASIC wasnt good enough for him and he starts over. He wouldnt have enough bitcoins for that and it would take months from now.
I cant see how things could go that badly. I regret i didnt buy when the first results in hashing came in. Now i have to watch my investment die it seems.
If this really all came only from perfectionism... earning 20%, while those 20% would be eaten in 2 weeks diff updates already, and we now slowly turn to 75% loss in the meanwhile and its still open how many months it will take from now... if thats true... i really want to kick someone in the balls. I know i wouldnt do it but if my assumptions are true i would like someone guilty at least imagine it vividly...

[VolanicEruptor]

Just remember, every time he deletes a post he's doing it to hide the truth.  This pertains to any mention of the lies, deceit, or incompetency.  He doesn't want this to rub off on all shareholders.  He wants us to remain confident so that he can drag out this scam as long as possible.  That is exactly what Labcoin did.  The more time that passes, the more likely he is to get away with it.  Sure he's giving out refunds to customers, but I would love to hold onto $6 million dollars as well -- it would be like a loan with unlimited benefits.  Not to mention a beautiful salary for my entire family from shareholders funds.  Why the FUCK would I support anything he says/does when he has already benefited from this venture while we haven't seen a dime since the eASIC news?   Hopefully as the supporters gradually shift ofter to share my position, we will have more support against this terrible crime.  Only then can we work as a group rather than bicker amongst ourselves.  The only barrier is time.

[babybonobo]

Just remember, every time he deletes a post he's doing it to hide the truth.  This pertains to any mention of the lies, deceit, or incompetency.  He doesn't want this to rub off on all shareholders.  He wants us to remain confident so that he can drag out this scam as long as possible.  That is exactly what Labcoin did.  The more time that passes, the more likely he is to get away with it.  Sure he's giving out refunds to customers, but I would love to hold onto $6 million dollars as well -- it would be like a loan with unlimited benefits.  Not to mention a beautiful salary for my entire family from shareholders funds.  Why the FUCK would I support anything he says/does when he has already benefited from this venture while we haven't seen a dime since the eASIC news?   Hopefully as the supporters gradually shift ofter to share my position, we will have more support against this terrible crime.  Only then can we work as a group rather than bicker amongst ourselves.  The only barrier is time.

Volanic, what is your proof that this is some sort of scam?  What factors made this definite for you?  I ask truthfully, not trolly...let's get down to it, please define your reasoning specifically to help us out and get to the point to stop this bickering.

[RickJamesBTC]

Just remember, every time he deletes a post he's doing it to hide the truth.  This pertains to any mention of the lies, deceit, or incompetency.  He doesn't want this to rub off on all shareholders.  He wants us to remain confident so that he can drag out this scam as long as possible.  That is exactly what Labcoin did.  The more time that passes, the more likely he is to get away with it.  Sure he's giving out refunds to customers, but I would love to hold onto $6 million dollars as well -- it would be like a loan with unlimited benefits.  Not to mention a beautiful salary for my entire family from shareholders funds.  Why the FUCK would I support anything he says/does when he has already benefited from this venture while we haven't seen a dime since the eASIC news?   Hopefully as the supporters gradually shift ofter to share my position, we will have more support against this terrible crime.  Only then can we work as a group rather than bicker amongst ourselves.  The only barrier is time.

Volanic, what is your proof that this is some sort of scam?  What factors made this definite for you?  I ask truthfully, not trolly...let's get down to it, please define your reasoning specifically to help us out and get to the point to stop this bickering.

If you are gonna say that, what is your proof it isn't a scam. There is NOTHING leaning towards the not a scam side so far. No miners, no shipped product, lost shares, total bs about shares, lies about shipping.


C'mon son.

[babybonobo]

If you are gonna say that, what is your proof it isn't a scam. There is NOTHING leaning towards the not a scam side so far. No miners, no shipped product, lost shares, total bs about shares, lies about shipping.


C'mon son.

Listen up, I'm not out for a witch hunt.  Don't assume my side because I am not a cheerleader.  Literally everything you said was subjective, I was looking more for actual facts and verifiable lies.  You can't say someone is a liar without proving their intention.  I could spurt out just as much opinion and speculation in support of ACTM, it just seems like VE is so certain of criminality that I was curious as to what his last straw was.