[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[mannybitcoins]

If you are gonna say that, what is your proof it isn't a scam. There is NOTHING leaning towards the not a scam side so far. No miners, no shipped product, lost shares, total bs about shares, lies about shipping.


C'mon son.

Listen up, I'm not out for a witch hunt.  Don't assume my side because I am not a cheerleader.  Literally everything you said was subjective, I was looking more for actual facts and verifiable lies.  You can't say someone is a liar without proving their intention.  I could spurt out just as much opinion and speculation in support of ACTM, it just seems like VE is so certain of criminality that I was curious as to what his last straw was.

You must actually be a baby bonobo to be that stupid.

No Miners = FACT
No shipped product = FACT
Lost shares = SUBJECTIVE but we cannot trade shares, and technically do not have ownership of them at this point, so leaning towards FACT
Total BS about Shares = SUBJECTIVE but we do not have a set date for when trading will be available, and Ken said on Dec 18th they would be up in a week, with was complete BS, so leaning toward FACT
lies about shipping = FACT

VE's last straw? Maybe it was the shitty updates, with no timelines whatsoever? Or maybe the blatant lies? OHH or maybe it was Ken deleting posts for hours when he say the team is focusing on the core of the business?

So which one was it VE?

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[VolanicEruptor]

If you are gonna say that, what is your proof it isn't a scam. There is NOTHING leaning towards the not a scam side so far. No miners, no shipped product, lost shares, total bs about shares, lies about shipping.


C'mon son.

Listen up, I'm not out for a witch hunt.  Don't assume my side because I am not a cheerleader.  Literally everything you said was subjective, I was looking more for actual facts and verifiable lies.  You can't say someone is a liar without proving their intention.  I could spurt out just as much opinion and speculation in support of ACTM, it just seems like VE is so certain of criminality that I was curious as to what his last straw was.

You must actually be a baby bonobo to be that stupid.

No Miners = FACT
No shipped product = FACT
Lost shares = SUBJECTIVE but we cannot trade shares, and technically do not have ownership of them at this point, so leaning towards FACT
Total BS about Shares = SUBJECTIVE but we do not have a set date for when trading will be available, and Ken said on Dec 18th they would be up in a week, with was complete BS, so leaning toward FACT
lies about shipping = FACT

VE's last straw? Maybe it was the shitty updates, with no timelines whatsoever? Or maybe the blatant lies? OHH or maybe it was Ken deleting posts for hours when he say the team is focusing on the core of the business?

So which one was it VE?

For me it was when his English and grammar started to fall apart in his updates.  He started hyphenating words like "Bitcoin-mining".   
On top of it all though, it was his inability to prove that he has done anything other than a few scribbles on a million dollar cheque.  Meanwhile, he personally benefits financially even though the core business is now worthless.  He didn't even try to make it work, because that salary is all he wanted out of it.  Proof of this is that he didn't even bother hiring someone useful, only his family who had probably never heard of "bitcoin" until getting hired to fold cardboard boxes and sort through sales orders.  This man is literally trying to build a rocket ship out of marshmallows and school glue.  He doesn't have a single clue of how to make us successful, only himself by stealing our money for his own families wealth.  That, my friends, defines SCAM.

 

[wasubii]

I think one of the worst parts is that we haven't ever seen a proper set of accounts.

And before you all start linking those bullshit accounts he posted way back - those were NOT proper accounts.

VE argues that Ken is lining the pockets of himself and his family. I would LOVE to see some proper accounts so we can see if that is true or not. I don't think that accusation can be laid without evidence. But we should all know how much he is paying himself and his family.

I am amazed that no one on here is asking for this information any more.

Ken's tactic of treating us all like mushrooms (kept in dark and fed on bullshit) is clearly working. We rail, and cry and jump up and down for each piece of information that we should have but don't. But there is so much information we don't have that it is hard to keep track of what we should be asking for.

I WANT SOME REAL ACCOUNTS!!

[babybonobo]

You must actually be a baby bonobo to be that stupid.

No Miners = FACT
No shipped product = FACT
Lost shares = SUBJECTIVE but we cannot trade shares, and technically do not have ownership of them at this point, so leaning towards FACT
Total BS about Shares = SUBJECTIVE but we do not have a set date for when trading will be available, and Ken said on Dec 18th they would be up in a week, with was complete BS, so leaning toward FACT
lies about shipping = FACT

VE's last straw? Maybe it was the shitty updates, with no timelines whatsoever? Or maybe the blatant lies? OHH or maybe it was Ken deleting posts for hours when he say the team is focusing on the core of the business?

So which one was it VE?

Alright dumbass, look, I'm here to evaluate the truth and not talk about speculation at the moment.  Let me break this down for you one more time, a little more specifically and harshly...

"No miners"-- While it is most likely true that we don't have a miner with 28nm eASIC chips, we still have BTC coming into the ACTM address.  Not much else to add to this, but speculation, as this is the whole subject of the matter.
"No shipped product/Lies about shipping"-- Show me proof that he lied, show me proof that there is no shipped product.  Don't try to prove the existence of a God to an Agnostic.  I don't need proof of shipping because I have no idea if anything was actually shipped.  Either show proof or say you don't know.  This is unknown.
"Lost shares"--Hmm...interesting wording.  I'm not sure how they are lost.  We can't trade them at the moment but in my opinion it is wise for Ken to wait for CC.  He obviously has communication issues though and should have kept us updated on the matter.  In fact, he should have someone else keep us updated so he doesn't have to think about it.

In conclusion, everything you just said is still speculation.  I was asking if VE has any verifiable facts or information based on reality and not just perceptions and speculation.  Do you understand now?  Maybe you're spidey senses are better than mine and you know that this is a scam deep down...that's a lot different than having verifiable facts and hard evidence that led you to that conclusion.  You really think this would be a scam even though Ken's face is all over the place, his name, his family members' names, his address, his business address, his business license, he has a publicly known deal with eASIC...the list goes on.  Quite frankly it would be easy to press charges if this was a scam.  There is a huge difference between a scam and delays (or even complete failure).  Please regard these issues maturely as such.

I am not here to be a cheerleader or a grim reaper, I just want to talk about truths and not speculation since the ratio is so poorly skewed at the moment.  Obviously we need more information and that is the cause of all this bickering, but let's try and talk about what we do know rather than speculating harshly and mindlessly about the things that we do not know.

I wanna see some verifiable, quoted lies that are proved lies.  Not this speculation bullshit that attempts to prove that you are psychic.  I also can confirm that I've had posts deleted that WERE NOT CRITICAL OF ACTM (but involved bickering) that were deleted from the thread.  I need confirmation from a mod that these posts are actually deleted by Ken (Yes, I know it tells you in your inbox but I'm not sure that is accurate).  While I think it is good for Ken to delete whatever bickering he chooses, it would be a very poor use of time if he is constantly on here.

Cheers!

[babybonobo]

For me it was when his English and grammar started to fall apart in his updates.  He started hyphenating words like "Bitcoin-mining".  
On top of it all though, it was his inability to prove that he has done anything other than a few scribbles on a million dollar cheque.  Meanwhile, he personally benefits financially even though the core business is now worthless.  He didn't even try to make it work, because that salary is all he wanted out of it.  Proof of this is that he didn't even bother hiring someone useful, only his family who had probably never heard of "bitcoin" until getting hired to fold cardboard boxes and sort through sales orders.  This man is literally trying to build a rocket ship out of marshmallows and school glue.  He doesn't have a single clue of how to make us successful, only himself by stealing our money for his own families wealth.  That, my friends, defines SCAM.

  

I see where you are coming from, VE.  I agree about the grammar, that is a red flag in my eyes as well.  While excusable, I never assume it is excusable because it is also scammy.  Saying that he formed the company just to reap the benefits of the salary for him and his family members is a large claim...I'm not saying it's impossible but it doesn't seem like a good way to scam people and get away with it.  I suppose he could argue that he tried his hardest but failed and scam us etc, etc... but in court that wouldn't hold up because they would judge the backgrounds of the family members involved.  If the company failed and there was a lawsuit due to scamming concerns, the courts aren't just going to say "hey you invested in this company and it failed, tough shit", they will look at the motives behind Ken and family and investigate.

Don't flame me, VE, but I honestly think you have taken things a little too far in your head.  I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong!  I have no crystal ball, obviously.  HOWEVER, it is quite obvious that everyone is paranoid, that is for sure...and obviously scepticism and paranoia is good in moderate amounts but this is utter madness.  ACTM does need to come out and clear up a lot of information so we can stop arguing over nonsense.  I'd like to see proper accounting documents as well.

[VolanicEruptor]

Babybonobo your posts are worthless to us, and here is why:

Activity: 48

It's funny how all these supporters have less than 100 posts.  They all have such positive things to say about a failed company.  Goes to show you what measures Ken will take to desperately keep us patient.

Anyone who is not an established member of Bitcointalk should be ignored.  Their opinion is worthless because they could be anybody, including Ken himself.

If anybody thinks this is far fetched, Icebreaker was called out for being Eduardo from Hashfast.  Within a matter of hours of this accusation his posts went down to nearly 0/day.

Lesson learned: Users should never be assumed to be who they portray themselves to be, especially with an extremely low post count.  

Read with caution.

I would suggest ignoring Babybonobo.  I honestly believe only Ken would support himself that much at this point.  No reasonable investor has any significant amount of optimism left.

[babybonobo]

Babybonobo your posts are worthless to us, and here is why:

Activity: 48

It's funny how all these supporters have less than 100 posts.  They all have such positive things to say about a failed company.  Goes to show you what measures Ken will take to desperately keep us patient.

Anyone who is not an established member of Bitcointalk should be ignored.  Their opinion is worthless because they could be anybody, including Ken himself.

If anybody thinks this is far fetched, Icebreaker was called out for being Eduardo from Hashfast.  Within a matter of hours of this accusation his posts went down to nearly 0/day.

Lesson learned: Users should never be assumed to be who they portray themselves to be, especially with an extremely low post count.  

Read with caution.

Yeah, that's not gonna work. 

I would suggest ignoring Babybonobo.  I honestly believe only Ken would support himself that much at this point.  No reasonable investor has any significant amount of optimism left.

Your mind games may work on others, but not me.  Don't speak for other people, and I don't give a fuck how popular you are.

[lobbes]

You must actually be a baby bonobo to be that stupid.

No Miners = FACT
No shipped product = FACT
Lost shares = SUBJECTIVE but we cannot trade shares, and technically do not have ownership of them at this point, so leaning towards FACT
Total BS about Shares = SUBJECTIVE but we do not have a set date for when trading will be available, and Ken said on Dec 18th they would be up in a week, with was complete BS, so leaning toward FACT
lies about shipping = FACT

...

Alright dumbass, look, I'm here to evaluate the truth and not talk about speculation at the moment.  Let me break this down for you one more time, a little more specifically and harshly...

"No miners"-- While it is most likely true that we don't have a miner with 28nm eASIC chips, we still have BTC coming into the ACTM address.  Not much else to add to this, but speculation, as this is the whole subject of the matter.
"No shipped product/Lies about shipping"-- Show me proof that he lied, show me proof that there is no shipped product.  Don't try to prove the existence of a God to an Agnostic.  I don't need proof of shipping because I have no idea if anything was actually shipped.  Either show proof or say you don't know.  This is unknown.
.....

Ken stated in an update that first products have been shipped. In his latest update, he has stated that they are still working out the design, so we know there's no product. This is fact, unfortunately. Things are not lining up and the burden of proof is on Ken, not us.

When is the first batch of chips/boards supposed to arrive at VMC Assembly?

Our engineers are still designing our board. We had to change our engineering firm, and
learn a few lessons about hiring an engineer firm.  We don't have a date at this time.

[babybonobo]

Ken stated in an update that first products have been shipped. In his latest update, he has stated that they are still working out the design, so we know there's no product. This is fact, unfortunately. Things are not lining up and the burden of proof is on Ken, not us.

I agree that the burden of proof is on Ken, and not us.  I definitely think we need more info from the inside, but I just wanted some users to substantiate their extreme claims.  I now know what I need to know...it is all speculation on their part (which is fine).

More speculation: I think that Ken was talking about a different product other than the 28nm chipped machines that shipped, but he needs to let us know what the deal is.  Time will tell, I think I'll step back and just watch until more information comes out.

[RickJamesBTC]

So many sensitive little whiners here lately. Bonobo, what makes you think there is anything to this deal ?? It's all gone. At most, you guys have some numbers in a spreadsheet file. Maybe in a few more months they will make a fake exchange or a fake coin and tell all the "investors" that they have a certain amount of these shares. Then they will walk away and let you trade the worthless crap amongst yourselves. It will never be a share of a company, never pay dividends, never own a part of a mining farm. Quit snapping at people with your crazy ideas.

[iSnow]

blah blah blah

VE where is your update on eASIC? You were going to contact them and not take "no" for an answer.

[VolanicEruptor]

blah blah blah

VE where is your update on eASIC? You were going to contact them and not take "no" for an answer.

Look at the date I posted that, dumbass.  I don't work for you

[Thumper650]

...
I agree that the burden of proof is on Ken, and not us.  I definitely think we need more info from the inside, but I just wanted some users to substantiate their extreme claims.  I now know what I need to know...it is all speculation on their part (which is fine).
...

Everything is pure speculation.  If I told you the moon was not made of cream cheese, you would tell me I'm speculating.  If I came back in a spaceship that Ken made for me, and stretched out my long noodly tentacle holding moon rocks, you'd tell me I landed on the wrong side, and was speculating and spreading FUD.  Your Cream Cheese Mining Belize operation is certain to be a booming success.
The contrived, desperate scenarios where Ken's lies turn into truths are contrived and desperate.  Sure, he could have shipped his old Avalons, his Bitfuries, or giftwrapped empty cases.  

[minerpart]

The only proven liar on here who we can say for certain has lied to try to benefit his own share position is VE/Canadianguy.

He deliberately lied about having a VMC machine. He then lied about being paid 5btc by zumzero.

Oh and he's also made repeated threats against Ken's life. If there is anyone on here with zero credibility its VE.

He is just an aggressive, immature, paranoid gym junkie. Get over this creep already.

[cheaptar]

The only proven liar on here who we can say for certain has lied to try to benefit his own share position is VE/Canadianguy.

He deliberately lied about having a VMC machine. He then lied about being paid 5btc by zumzero.

Nothing but speculation at best and probably FUD.  We need proof.

[SebastianJu]

So VMC sold miners for thousands of bitcoins. And we have a delay of months. Were are all the customers? With every other miner selling company you saw threads filled with customers that are angry and want their money back. Only think about avalon batch 3. But VMC has nothing like that?

That sounds really strange und unusual. I cant believe that the refunds are working so flawless that no one complains. I mean refunds are in USD and even when someone got a refund he would write about it right? But nothing from any customer? Can this be?

The worst thing in this all seems to me that we seemingly had a working prototype but ken decided we need a redesign.

Regarding forum deletions... i dont see that ken is deleting critics totally. Not one of my critic posts vanished. So i wonder what posts are deleted.

[keepinithamsta]

So VMC sold miners for thousands of bitcoins. And we have a delay of months. Were are all the customers? With every other miner selling company you saw threads filled with customers that are angry and want their money back. Only think about avalon batch 3. But VMC has nothing like that?

That sounds really strange und unusual. I cant believe that the refunds are working so flawless that no one complains. I mean refunds are in USD and even when someone got a refund he would write about it right? But nothing from any customer? Can this be?

The worst thing in this all seems to me that we seemingly had a working prototype but ken decided we need a redesign.

Regarding forum deletions... i dont see that ken is deleting critics totally. Not one of my critic posts vanished. So i wonder what posts are deleted.

I also have never seen a single person talking about ordering a single machine.

Ken never had a working prototype.  For all we know the NDA with eASIC is for Ken to hire 12 illegal immigrants to butter toast for Ronnie Vasishta.

And last but not least, I've had 3-4 posts deleted so far since this thread opened.  It's always posts asking for proof.

[VinceSamios]

If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

[Vigil]

If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Assuming Ken has actual intention of producing miners.

[iSnow]

blah blah blah

VE where is your update on eASIC? You were going to contact them and not take "no" for an answer.

Look at the date I posted that, dumbass.  I don't work for you

Look Mr. Dickhead, you claimed weeks ago you had "very damaging info from eASIC" and have shown nothing. You claimed last week you were going to contact eASIC to get more information and would not take "no" for an answer. Again nothing.

You are nothing but a pathological liar and loudmouth.