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zumzero
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January 26, 2014, 03:36:02 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2014, 03:59:36 PM by zumzero |
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Probably, Ken didn't do the calculations before buying this IP.
Perhaps it wouldn't make great sense these days to start a mining company with the sole intention of developing 55nm hardware given the time to market versus the ever increasing difficulty factor, but surely it makes sense in ActM's situation as we managed to secure a team who will develop the full custom 28nm chip and additionally provide a stop gap solution with the 55nm. I think it is grossly unfair to speak like that Vigil and it reflects badly on you as an individual who can't seem to get over your anger. What a cheap dig that was. |
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wasubii
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January 26, 2014, 03:42:24 PM |
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There are a lot of potential customers who, when browsing for a miner will consider; price, hashing rate and expected delivery time. Weather it's a 20nm, 28nm or a 55nm product, this will go unnoticed by many shoppers, but obviously not all. A lot of them will be as blissfully unaware of the power draw of their units as much as the price per wattage their energy suppliers are charging them whether that's in cents or dollars.
This is why targeting the budget sector with ActM's 55nm units has great potential imo.
minerpart, I'm sure you're already responding to kleeck's post, but I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the difficulties presumably ANY company will have in developing 20nm miners?
As long as they can be produced cheap enough to sell them at a budget price. With Avalon, bitfury and bitmain (plus others?) all with paid for 55nm masks, they will keep selling as long as they can make a profit. By the time ActM has 55nm chips to sell in 6 months time, the wholesale value of them will be so low that the only thing to do with them is to mine. I hope the costs of mounting them on boards and getting them mining will not be so high as to make them useless for mining too.... Probably, Ken didn't do the calculations before buying this IP. Perhaps it wouldn't make great sense these days to start a mining company with the sole intention of developing 55nm hardware given the time to market versus and the ever increasing difficulty factor, but surely it makes sense in ActM's situation as we managed to secure a team who will develop the full custom 28nm chip and additionally provide a stop gap solution with the 55nm. I think it is grossly unfair to speak like that Vigil and it reflects badly on you as an individual who can't seem to get over your anger. What a cheap dig that was. Maybe if Ken could back up decisions with a little clarity then we wouldn't be wondering if it was a smart move or not - i.e. he could very easily release the figures that you seem to be so sure he has run... If Ken is smart, then the boards and controllers for the 55nm chips will be the same as for the 28nm chips, then there is some worth in the 55nm chips, if only to pop the ActM cherry and debug the codes, boards, deployment plans etc... |
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minerpart
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January 26, 2014, 03:43:27 PM |
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Ken seems to have bought the options on a taped out chip plus taken on two project-related expert engineers who will assist the 28nm scheme. Sounds good to me. Custom 55nm is still viable according to Ken and the two designers. So I will trust these three experts over Vigil any day.
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zumzero
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January 26, 2014, 03:50:20 PM |
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@ wasubii What do you need to know in terms of the specs of the 55nm chip, understanding that you are unlikely to be able to factor in Intellihash due to its commercially sensitive nature?
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zumzero
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January 26, 2014, 03:51:48 PM |
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Ken seems to have bought the options on a taped out chip plus taken on two project-related expert engineers who will assist the 28nm scheme. Sounds good to me. Custom 55nm is still viable according to Ken and the two designers. So I will trust these three experts over Vigil any day.
+ project manager |
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Vigil
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January 26, 2014, 03:53:59 PM |
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Perhaps it wouldn't make great sense these days to start a mining company with the sole intention of developing 55nm hardware given the time to market versus and the ever increasing difficulty factor, but surely it makes sense in ActM's situation as we managed to secure a team who will develop the full custom 28nm chip and additionally provide a stop gap solution with the 55nm. I think it is grossly unfair to speak like that Vigil and it reflects badly on you as an individual who can't seem to get over your anger. What a cheap dig that was.
Maybe if Ken could back up decisions with a little clarity then we wouldn't be wondering if it was a smart move or not - i.e. he could very easily release the figures that you seem to be so sure he has run... If Ken is smart, then the boards and controllers for the 55nm chips will be the same as for the 28nm chips, then there is some worth in the 55nm chips, if only to pop the ActM cherry and debug the codes, boards, deployment plans etc... That would make sense. I am just wondering how our chips, which will be coming in the two month time-frame, are going to somehow be significantly more cost-effective than BitMain and Bitfurry chips. The Antminers are already selling at a price that cannot ROI, if they could reduce the price a bit more, they would. How many more chips per order are going to be required in two+ months to sell a machine that ROIs and how much more expensive will that make each machine? That is kinda what I am getting at. |
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minerpart
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January 26, 2014, 03:55:04 PM |
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Yes true zum.
zum and vigil - the huge quotes clog up the thread and increase the page count. No need for them you can quote just relevant bits.
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Flashman
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January 26, 2014, 04:17:06 PM |
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Good quote hygiene FTW... plus we can't move in here for all the smited puppies.
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TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6
Bitcoin Custodian: Keeping BTC away from weak heads since Feb '13, adopter of homeless bitcoins. |
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zumzero
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January 26, 2014, 04:21:01 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2014, 05:05:33 PM by zumzero |
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I think one of the big problems encountered in this thread is people feel they deserve greater transparency, more technical details and the business model laid out in front of them however Ken clearly has the view that it is bad practice to reveal information that could give your competition the edge. It's entirely likely that Ken sits on information which could be made public without hurting ActM interests because he is more guarded than he need be. So as a criticism I'd say that is absolutely justified. Now because Ken is this way it has two major problems which are; shareholders are more inclined to worry about their investments because the lack of information allows black thoughts to fester and, the trolls are empowered because the lack of information fuels their conspiracies which can be difficult to counteract. You then have the two feeding off each other.
I think we can get Ken to play ball. He doesn't seem to react well to demands and rightly so, but as evidenced by his eventual willingness to release weekly updates which, so far have been as regular as clockwork, Ken does respond to gentle pressure. So let's continue with the weekly attempts at Q&A, work together to organise those important questions and try to avoid having a go at Ken who, for all his faults is trying his very best to make this thing succeed.
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Bitdust
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January 26, 2014, 04:42:16 PM |
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...
What do you need to know in terms of the specs of the 55nm chip, understanding that you are unlikely to be able to factor in Intellihash due to its commercially sensitive comedic nature?
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minerpart
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January 26, 2014, 04:55:10 PM |
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Good point, it's Sunday, where is Vince with this weeks list of questions?
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wasubii
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January 26, 2014, 05:27:02 PM |
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@ wasubii What do you need to know in terms of the specs of the 55nm chip, understanding that you are unlikely to be able to factor in Intellihash due to its commercially sensitive nature?
We need to know what is the expected cost per GH including chips, boards, mounting, cooling, set up fees etc. Then we need to know how much he spent on the IP for the chips and also the NRE costs for the 55nm tapeout. With that information we can estimate the return on the 55nm chips. My guess is that the return is negative until you get to a deployment of tens of thousands of chips. in which case we (ActM) may well just be busy fools. Knowing Ken, IF he answers then he will answer with one line with no detailed breakdown, or assumptions, or anything to prove he hasn't just pulled the figure out of his ass... |
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minerpart
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January 26, 2014, 05:55:20 PM |
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Knowing Ken, IF he answers then he will answer with one line with no detailed breakdown, or assumptions, or anything to prove he hasn't just pulled the figure out of his ass...
And that shareholders is how you get the CEO to engage with you.  |
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wasubii
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January 26, 2014, 05:57:07 PM |
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Knowing Ken, IF he answers then he will answer with one line with no detailed breakdown, or assumptions, or anything to prove he hasn't just pulled the figure out of his ass...
And that shareholders is how you get the CEO to engage with you. I've been here long enough to realise that Ken doesn't give a flying fuck what shareholders think |
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zumzero
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January 26, 2014, 06:08:50 PM |
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Knowing Ken, IF he answers then he will answer with one line with no detailed breakdown, or assumptions, or anything to prove he hasn't just pulled the figure out of his ass...
And that shareholders is how you get the CEO to engage with you. I've been here long enough to realise that Ken doesn't give a flying fuck what shareholders think Care to explain what you want from partaking in this thread?
Knowing Ken, IF he answers then he will answer with one line with no detailed breakdown, or assumptions, or anything to prove he hasn't just pulled the figure out of his ass...
And that shareholders is how you get the CEO to engage with you. I've been here long enough to realise that Ken doesn't give a fuck about what shareholders think He does care, and Ken and family post on here with sock puppets all the time. It's easy to work out who is who. Why the hell shouldn't they when crumbs posts as over twelve separate identities? |
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wasubii
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January 26, 2014, 06:38:42 PM |
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I hope that by partaking in this thread some of the questions that have been asked will be answered by Ken et al. Can't blame a guy for trying... |
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zumzero
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January 26, 2014, 06:40:57 PM |
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Well just as well I PM'd Ken on your behalf.
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wasubii
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January 26, 2014, 07:08:44 PM |
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Well just as well I PM'd Ken on your behalf.
You've PM'd him with all the questions that have been ignored/unanswered? gee - must have been a long PM |
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minerpart
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January 26, 2014, 07:12:04 PM |
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Do KnC mine in Sweden? Sweden is also considering whether to tax bitcoin miners as businesses, stating only that his agency is considering its position on the matter.http://www.coindesk.com/sweden-regulate-bitcoin-asset/ |
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kleeck
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January 26, 2014, 07:19:12 PM |
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I don't believe that they have an official, company owned and operated mining farm. |
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