[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[mainline]

LorenzoMoney/breadcrumbs.  UR drunk.

Folks here are so slick, it's almost unsporting pokin' them.

1) To the CEO of Active Mining.

2) The report for today was more substantive.

3) Thank you.

4) You said that you will be verifying shares for renewed trading starting tomorrow.

5) Again, thank you

6) We are looking forward to Q2

7) It is good you have hired a real project manager

ZumZero, don't pout, you will be rich, also.

[2x:04] <LorenzoMoney> kens announcement is very good
[2x:04] <LorenzoMoney> zumzero makes me laugh
[2x:04] <LorenzoMoney> a working exchange and verifying shares is very good
[2x:04] <LorenzoMoney> Ken will make me rich

  <LorenzoMoney> Someone said Mainline and Crumbs are the same person.  Hmmmmmm
  <LorenzoMoney> Crumbs / Mainline only want to help Active Mining by shaking the tree a bit, shame on you for saying such terrible, terrible things about such a good decent person
...
  <LorenzoMoney> xxxx, you do agree with me that Mainline is Crumbs and that Mainline and crumbs is the most decent, knowledgable helpful person on the thread and on here and that he only wants Active Mining to succeeed, right?
  <xxxx> oh, for sure,yeah
  <xxxx> definitely... what the hell do you think I think?
  <xxxx> He just wants to pick up those cheap shares
  <LorenzoMoney> do you think mainline is crumbs? and was he really an orphan in palo alto in the 1980s?

[JoTheKhan]

@Mainline, Ken has stated the 55nm Chips are taped out. I do not know about the 28nm but I can confirm that Ken has stated that the 55nm chips are taped out.

[mainline]

@Mainline, Ken has stated the 55nm Chips are taped out. I do not know about the 28nm but I can confirm that Ken has stated that the 55nm chips are taped out.

Are you sure?  I'll scan trough his posts - do you have a link handy?

Edit:  You're right, he did:

...
The chips have not been produced at this time.  We have just taped-out, so this is the start of the manufacturing process.

Which brings me back to:

...
If they're taped out, then they have money to see it through.
...

Wishing to sell after tapeoput can mean a couple of things:  The chips are unprofitable or the people selling them are insane.

[Vigil]

...

If they're taped out, then they have money to see it through.
...

Wishing to sell after tapeout can mean a couple of things:  The chips are unprofitable or the people selling them are insane.

Never said they sold after tapeout. Maybe they sold prior to tapeout and that tape out was possible due to AMC funding it and not because People's ASIC funded it themselves.

[JoTheKhan]

@Main

There are a few reasons (not always great reasons, but there are a few) that this company plans to sell chips that meet ROI.

1. We get the money faster through preorders that allow us to order more chips at cost for us to mine with. If we didn't do preorders then our only source of income would be mining and our mining farm would grow at a slower pace.

2. Ken wants to sell hardware.

3. Hedge against a drop in BTC price.

[mainline]

...

If they're taped out, then they have money to see it through.
...

Wishing to sell after tapeout can mean a couple of things:  The chips are unprofitable or the people selling them are insane.

Never said they sold after tapeout. Maybe they sold prior to tapeout and that tape out was possible due to AMC funding it and not because People's ASIC funded it themselves.

Right.  And maybe Ken's actually a sentient gas from Transfalmaroon.  Everything is possible, I suppose.  Ken would have had to do moar lying to make this possible, but it's possible.

[mainline]

@Main

There are a few reasons (not always great reasons, but there are a few) that this company plans to sell chips that meet ROI.

1. We get the money faster through preorders that allow us to order more chips at cost for us to mine with. If we didn't do preorders then our only source of income would be mining and our mining farm would grow at a slower pace.

Ken claimed that he sold many millions worth of pre-orders for 28nm hardware that he doesn't have.  That money must be refunded (if real).
There are 0 pre-orders for 55nm gear/chips, and no pre-orders being advertised.  Not the reason.

2. Ken wants to sell hardware.

Perhaps.  Unfortunately, it's going to be difficult to sell it at a profit when AsicMiner is going to sell cheaper, more power-efficient chips.
Unless you're sponsoring Ken's hobby, a bad deal for you.

3. Hedge against a drop in BTC price.

How?

*The "we're using the same boards for both 28 and 55nm chips" is also utter bull.  Ask me why.

The guy has been lying to you nonstop, and people have been making up the most contrived and outlandish excuses to explain away those lies.  Come on.

[JoTheKhan]

Ken also claimed to have kept some of the money in BTC, remember the preorders started coming in when BTC was worth $100-$200 each and we refund in FIAT value.

Hedge : We sell a bunch of hardware before a BTC crash. Our Mining revenue goes to crap, but we still made money to sustain the company until BTC prices recover and our mining revenue turns back into profit. Not really Hedge but a crappy insurance against a BTC crash.

EDIT: I know little about mining and less about mining hardware. No reason to ask you why because it will ultimately go over my head.

[mainline]

Ken also claimed to have kept some of the money in BTC, remember the preorders started coming in when BTC was worth $100-$200 each and we refund in FIAT value.

Ken has explicitly contradicted that today.  Look at his weekly post.

Hedge : We sell a bunch of hardware before a BTC crash. Our Mining revenue goes to crap, but we still made money to sustain the company until BTC prices recover and our mining revenue turns back into profit. Not really Hedge but a crappy insurance against a BTC crash.

Not following.  You have no mining revenue to speak of.  The money to sustain the company was spent on IP and two doods.  It's either profitable IP and two d00ds, or it's not.  If not, there is no scenario which makes it profitable.  You don't need to know tech details, and you don't need to take my word for this.  

There's one knowledgeable guy who you can trust in this thread - MrTeal.  His tech info is spot-on and he is an EE (i think).  I don't personally know him, but have read his posts in the techy section.  If you have to accept anyone's word on trust (in techy matters), choose him.

[JimmyJazz]

... who are the Scotts?

Full Poem here without my paraphrasing:
------------
Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory;
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,
Sae fam'd in martial story.
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue,
Thro' many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane -
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O would, ere I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay,
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour,
I'll mak this declaration;
We're bought and sold for English gold-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3aniiKuxL8

[breadcrumbs]

I) The last PR report was great

II) Once We are trading and miners get produced and go online some current FUDsters will be even more upset

III) Mainline-crumbs is very upset

IV) Once the CEO makes us all rich, crumbs-Mainline will find some new amazing angle and will not quit

V) We must not agitate crumb-Mainline any more because this will become a crisis for him

VI) Trading will begin soon

VII) Be patient

[st4nl3y]

What about our shares??!!!

We will start the process of verifying the shares tomorrow.

Yea, and when will that be completed in 2 weeks ..? a month? ..or maybe when you sell some more shares ..? I bet 1 satoshi there is going to be some issues with verification and ken will post another bullshiznit explanation in the next update!

LOL @ all the outspoken fans and supporters of this failure! you all cheering up this mess but really you just wait for the moment you can sell your shares quietly and never post here again.in the meantime, the way you all bow down and bend over to your master is just way too funny and desperate to say the least!

[drawingthesun]

LOL @ all the outspoken fans and supporters of this failure! you all cheering up this mess but really you just wait for the moment you can sell your shares quietly and never post here again.in the meantime, the way you all bow down and bend over to your master is just way too funny and desperate to say the least!

This is a bunch of rubbish, I can count only a few, perhaps 5 at most, the amount of cheerleading investors.

Also if anyone thinks that can "quietly" sell their shares, they are in for a surprise. I have already claimed 0.0009 to be the top end of the price range until 28nm is delivered, with the most likely range around 0.0001-0.0004.

Most of the real investors (me and almost everyone else who isn't a troll) are not cheerleading and know that we will have to either sell very cheap to get bitcoin or hold out for a long time (8 months+) and hope that Ken succeeds.

[kleeck]

LOL @ all the outspoken fans and supporters of this failure! you all cheering up this mess but really you just wait for the moment you can sell your shares quietly and never post here again.in the meantime, the way you all bow down and bend over to your master is just way too funny and desperate to say the least!

This is a bunch of rubbish, I can count only a few, perhaps 5 at most, the amount of cheerleading investors.

Also if anyone thinks that can "quietly" sell their shares, they are in for a surprise. I have already claimed 0.0009 to be the top end of the price range until 28nm is delivered, with the most likely range around 0.0001-0.0004.

Most of the real investors (me and almost everyone else who isn't a troll) are not cheerleading and know that we will have to either sell very cheap to get bitcoin or hold out for a long time (8 months+) and hope that Ken succeeds.

Do you think that range will hold if Ken does get a 1-2PH farm up and running on the 55nm tech within Q2?

[mainline]

I) The last PR report was great

II) Once We are trading and miners get produced and go online some current FUDsters will be even more upset

III) Mainline-crumbs is very upset

IV) Once the CEO makes us all rich, crumbs-Mainline will find some new amazing angle and will not quit

V) We must not agitate crumb-Mainline any more because this will become a crisis for him

VI) Trading will begin soon

VII) Be patient

LorenzoMoney!  Still raging at shadows in IRC?  Whatcha gonna do when you dump your sharez - buy another training wheel for your scooter?  Or spring for one of those tiny clown cars with a funny claxon, so u and ur clown buddies investor friends can cruise around frightening children for chicks?

*For pages of IRC ragings, see http://pastebin.com/WUVaZkwB

[mainline]

...Also if anyone thinks that can "quietly" sell their shares, they are in for a surprise. I have already claimed 0.0009 to be the top end of the price range until 28nm is delivered, with the most likely range around 0.0001-0.0004.
...

Do you think that range will hold if Ken does get a 1-2PH farm up and running on the 55nm tech within Q2?

Sure.  Especially when Ken starts mining the moon for cream cheese.

[MrTeal]

LOL @ all the outspoken fans and supporters of this failure! you all cheering up this mess but really you just wait for the moment you can sell your shares quietly and never post here again.in the meantime, the way you all bow down and bend over to your master is just way too funny and desperate to say the least!

This is a bunch of rubbish, I can count only a few, perhaps 5 at most, the amount of cheerleading investors.

Also if anyone thinks that can "quietly" sell their shares, they are in for a surprise. I have already claimed 0.0009 to be the top end of the price range until 28nm is delivered, with the most likely range around 0.0001-0.0004.

Most of the real investors (me and almost everyone else who isn't a troll) are not cheerleading and know that we will have to either sell very cheap to get bitcoin or hold out for a long time (8 months+) and hope that Ken succeeds.

Do you think that range will hold if Ken does get a 1-2PH farm up and running on the 55nm tech within Q2?

Not to be dismissive, but the chances of that happening are almost non-existent. Even if the chips were coming out of fab right now and there was a board design that was vetted I would be surprised if AMC could get a 1PH mine running by the end of Q2. You're talking about a 2MW datacenter there, probably 3MW with cooling. That's going to be a massive facility and even the capital infrastructure outside the mining hardware doesn't spring up overnight.

Just look at how long it took the 100GH/s mine to ramp up to 500GH/s, and that's with the Bitfury design which is pulling about half the power per GH/s that this 55nm design will if it hits its specs. They started getting hardware online at the end of July/start of August, and hit 500GH/s at the end of the year.

[kleeck]

LOL @ all the outspoken fans and supporters of this failure! you all cheering up this mess but really you just wait for the moment you can sell your shares quietly and never post here again.in the meantime, the way you all bow down and bend over to your master is just way too funny and desperate to say the least!

This is a bunch of rubbish, I can count only a few, perhaps 5 at most, the amount of cheerleading investors.

Also if anyone thinks that can "quietly" sell their shares, they are in for a surprise. I have already claimed 0.0009 to be the top end of the price range until 28nm is delivered, with the most likely range around 0.0001-0.0004.

Most of the real investors (me and almost everyone else who isn't a troll) are not cheerleading and know that we will have to either sell very cheap to get bitcoin or hold out for a long time (8 months+) and hope that Ken succeeds.

Do you think that range will hold if Ken does get a 1-2PH farm up and running on the 55nm tech within Q2?

Not to be dismissive, but the chances of that happening are almost non-existent. Even if the chips were coming out of fab right now and there was a board design that was vetted I would be surprised if AMC could get a 1PH mine running by the end of Q2. You're talking about a 2MW datacenter there, probably 3MW with cooling. That's going to be a massive facility and even the capital infrastructure outside the mining hardware doesn't spring up overnight.

Just look at how long it took the 100GH/s mine to ramp up to 500GH/s, and that's with the Bitfury design which is pulling about half the power per GH/s that this 55nm design will if it hits its specs. They started getting hardware online at the end of July/start of August, and hit 500GH/s at the end of the year.

I'm currently employed by a company who has multiple data centers around the world, one of which I am in charge of maintaining. I am fully aware of the logistics involved in getting a data center setup and it is far from the biggest obstacle here.

I do agree that the ramp-up time will be a significant factor, but to say that the possibility is "almost non-existent" is exactly what you claimed to not be, dismissive. Ken knows how to do calculations and there are plenty of DCs that would love to take on the recurring revenue that an operation like this would bring in. This is not some magical and mysterious process. It has been done before ActM and will be done after.

It's hard to look at the example of this "100gh/s" mine ramping up to 500gh/s because there are far too many variables involved in any one company's ramp up time. They may have hangups that ActM does not and ActM may have some that they did not. The only thing we can really look at is our available resources and timelines, which only Ken has on hand. He has been very tight lipped about the mining operation until now so I believe he has enough data available to put forth a reasonable timeline.

[VinceSamios]

Not to be dismissive, but the chances of that happening are almost non-existent. Even if the chips were coming out of fab right now and there was a board design that was vetted I would be surprised if AMC could get a 1PH mine running by the end of Q2. You're talking about a 2MW datacenter there, probably 3MW with cooling. That's going to be a massive facility and even the capital infrastructure outside the mining hardware doesn't spring up overnight.

Just look at how long it took the 100GH/s mine to ramp up to 500GH/s, and that's with the Bitfury design which is pulling about half the power per GH/s that this 55nm design will if it hits its specs. They started getting hardware online at the end of July/start of August, and hit 500GH/s at the end of the year.

At 16gh/chip, to ramp up production requires approx. 500% less hardware than with bitfury chips, which means it should be possible to ramp up 500% faster.

Being the manufacturer of the chips and the boards will also save significant time in ramping up. No need to wait in line for chips etc.

[kleeck]

Not to be dismissive, but the chances of that happening are almost non-existent. Even if the chips were coming out of fab right now and there was a board design that was vetted I would be surprised if AMC could get a 1PH mine running by the end of Q2. You're talking about a 2MW datacenter there, probably 3MW with cooling. That's going to be a massive facility and even the capital infrastructure outside the mining hardware doesn't spring up overnight.

Just look at how long it took the 100GH/s mine to ramp up to 500GH/s, and that's with the Bitfury design which is pulling about half the power per GH/s that this 55nm design will if it hits its specs. They started getting hardware online at the end of July/start of August, and hit 500GH/s at the end of the year.

At 16gh/chip, to ramp up production requires approx. 500% less hardware than with bitfury chips, which means it should be possible to ramp up 500% faster.

In order to have this 1-2PH farm within Q2 we would need to use the 55nm chips @ 1.9GH/s.