[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[Aireun]

Question, as I'm fairly new to trading. When some of you refer to "Bots" messing with prices and such, what do you mean by this? How can anyone control the prices when it depends on who is selling... just trying to understand. Thanks.

[rdyoung]

This is the most important part.
Owning shares in Peta is akin to owning ghs on the exchanges that sell them, except Peta will reinvest on your behalf and you can still cash out at your leisure.
If you bought 1 share and then sold after dividends were paid you cashed out with a positive roi, regardless of what's going on behind the scenes.

Only true if the asset values do not go down because re-investment did not keep up with BTC difficulty!
Suggesting to people they cannot lose assumes the share price won't go down, which it obviously will if the above happens! Somewhat disengenuous of you!

How is it disingenuous?
Your assuming that a lot of shares will be dumped after dividends, a bad assumption on your part. As long as the dividends are steady or slightly increasing more will hold than will sell.
You obviously missed my point entirely and are just looking for an argument.

I refuse to argue with anyone that would try to argue Petamine share price is a "sure thing". Makes you either stupid or deliberately misleading. If you were a stockbroker you would be facing mis-selling charges.

No you refuse to allow logic and commonsense invade your cognitive dissonance.
I never said that the share price was a sure thing.
What I said was it was a bad assumption on your part to assume a severe drop in price right after dividends have been paid.
BIG BIG Difference. It is obvious that you have no clue how stocks and other commodities are priced.
You have take many many factors into account when your dealing with investments, and with vehicles such as petamine that pay a dividend, it is likely that the price will stay steady, outside of the bots screwing with the price, or someone intentionally painting the tape.

You sound just like the type that flog bad investments to vulnerable people from boilerrooms. "it is likely that the price will stay steady" gives you away for the idiot or miscreant you are.

Are we trading on 1920s wallstreet here?
Do you have any idea how stockbrokers/moneymanagers actually work?
They are given a stock to pump and they do so by getting their clients to buy in, when they get enough people to buy in, the firm sells the shares they are holding and leave the clients holding the bag. These practices are actually legal if done properly.

Looking at what the next 30 days should hold for peta, based on what they have done already, getting in at the current .07btc is a hell of a deal.

Why do you have to resort to name calling?
OH, yeah I know why, because you are out of your depths and instead of educating yourself, you play bully to cover up your lack of knowledge.
I suggest you look up the following authors for a start, victor sperandeo and stan weinstein. They provide a great starting place for those looking to trade stocks/commodities/etc.

[Vertikar]

So is this an eternal loop kinda thing where the price of shares goes up towards Friday and drops down during the weekend?

Possibly until the mine is fully deployed..

[Swordsoffreedom]

So is this an eternal loop kinda thing where the price of shares goes up towards Friday and drops down during the weekend?

Possibly until the mine is fully deployed..

That seems like a recurring sequence then but been a while since I've been in this thread can someone sum it up nicely

[ujka]

So is this an eternal loop kinda thing where the price of shares goes up towards Friday and drops down during the weekend?

Possibly until the mine is fully deployed..

That seems like a recurring sequence then but been a while since I've been in this thread can someone sum it up nicely

It's a sequence, but not towards Fridays - price of shares go up when there is new hardware deployed. More than a few days of no new hardware, and the price goes down.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

Not many people are aware of PETA mine at the moment as well as  others might not trust Havelock investment as a company to hold their investment. Those 2 factors alone contribute to the current share price. As well as , currently 1 share granting 1.85 GH/s at the moment (40ish $) which is rather pricy.
People claiming that SP is already high and will drop down, would be right if PETA would fail to deploy 700TH/s and to keep up with an increasing difficulty.
However, this is the worst scenario. In the best scenario where PETA reaches and maintains 1% of all Bitcoin network, the current share price is too little.

Another important factor, if  the dividend % increases every week, SP is bound to increase.
Some say, that people would dump shares after the SP goes up and yes, this would happen, but there is always 2 people in the trade!

In my eyes, the current SP does not represent the real PETA value (assuming PETA will full-fill the  promises). Which I tend to view as a positive factor, because it allows me to accumulate shares at  a low price, before PETA  is cool

Peace!

Ageing liberal hippie douche

[runam0k]

Bots do not mess with prices. Bots add liquidity to the market and reduce the bid-ask spread.

Have you never seen "When Bots Go Bad"?  All of the biggest flash crashes in history have been caused by bots.

[stompysteve]

So is this an eternal loop kinda thing where the price of shares goes up towards Friday and drops down during the weekend?

Possibly until the mine is fully deployed..

I feel like its gonna start to head up past .07 since the divs are going to be steadily increasing if we keep getting more hashrate every 2 weeks at least

[rdyoung]

Bots do not mess with prices. Bots add liquidity to the market and reduce the bid-ask spread.

Have you never seen "When Bots Go Bad"?  All of the biggest flash crashes in history have been caused by bots.

And some of those were likely intentional so someone could profit off the crash and then the recovery.

[Darkstone2]

Have you never seen "When Bots Go Bad"?  All of the biggest flash crashes in history have been caused by bots.

ALL of the biggest flash crashes?

Please name me one that is confirmed to be caused by bots. The last time i checked wikipedia there was still discussion whether the 2010 flash crash was caused by bots or fat fingers.

I personally have quite a bit of knowledge about the algorithms used in trading bots. I run my own trading bots on multiple exchanges, including havelock (configured to trade only neo&bee stocks). And although the idea of 'war bots' is cool, it isn't practical without A) extensive knowledge of where everybody put their stop losses or B) extensive knowledge about the exact algorithms of other bots.

[rdyoung]

Have you never seen "When Bots Go Bad"?  All of the biggest flash crashes in history have been caused by bots.

ALL of the biggest flash crashes?

Please name me one that is confirmed to be caused by bots. The last time i checked wikipedia there was still discussion whether the 2010 flash crash was caused by bots or fat fingers.

I personally have quite a bit of knowledge about the algorithms used in trading bots. I run my own trading bots on multiple exchanges, including havelock (configured to trade only neo&bee stocks). And although the idea of 'war bots' is cool, it isn't practical without A) extensive knowledge of where everybody put their stop losses or B) extensive knowledge about the exact algorithms of other bots.

Welcome back Darkstone2.

Am I the only one who finds this awesomely hilarious?
The bots used to trade NASDAQ,NYMEX, etc are on a whole other level from the baby bots used to trade btc, and virtual stocks. Same as the security in the btc arena is nothing compared to the firewalls and security used by wall street, et al.

[howardb]

Why do you have to resort to name calling?
OH, yeah I know why, because you are out of your depths and instead of educating yourself, you play bully to cover up your lack of knowledge.
I suggest you look up the following authors for a start, victor sperandeo and stan weinstein. They provide a great starting place for those looking to trade stocks/commodities/etc.

Boy you are so far off the mark with me I'm not sure where to begin, but it does typify your ignorance:

a) Do I know how the markets work? Well lets see, i've been personally trading for 30 years in pretty much all available instruments. I've been a software designer in futures trading for a major scandinavian bank, and a settlement systems designer for a major US brokerage. These days I'm involved in helping UK banks implement cloud infrastructure.

b) Why do I name call? I have a very low tolerance for ignorant people who try to lecture other people with misleading or plain incorrect facts.

c) Why do I think you are plain wrong? Suggesting the one week dividend cycle will engender different price behaviour to the more normal quarterly or annual cycle of corporations is bizaar at best. The value of the upcoming dividend WILL be discounted to share price when it's paid (ex div). Just like every stock in the world. Right now that dividend is NOT big enough to make a difference, but that behaviour WILL assert itself as the dividend grows.

d) Can the share price drop? Yes if course it can, already described how,you chose to ignore the point, so i'll make it again. The share price will drop if/when the market realises the asset base growth is not keeping pace with the Bitcoin difficulty growth! Because THAT is the basis for fundamental valuation of the project's shares (The future potential earnings + physical asset values) REGARDLESS OF DIVIDEND. Get it?

[runam0k]

Please name me one that is confirmed to be caused by bots. The last time i checked wikipedia there was still discussion whether the 2010 flash crash was caused by bots or fat fingers.

One fat finger does not a flash crash make if there are no bots ready to go completely nuts afterwards.

[howardb]

Please name me one that is confirmed to be caused by bots. The last time i checked wikipedia there was still discussion whether the 2010 flash crash was caused by bots or fat fingers.

One fat finger does not a flash crash make if there are no bots ready to go completely nuts afterwards.

If you are looking to attribute blame you are mixing up cause and effect.

[howardb]

Have you never seen "When Bots Go Bad"?  All of the biggest flash crashes in history have been caused by bots.

ALL of the biggest flash crashes?

Please name me one that is confirmed to be caused by bots. The last time i checked wikipedia there was still discussion whether the 2010 flash crash was caused by bots or fat fingers.

I personally have quite a bit of knowledge about the algorithms used in trading bots. I run my own trading bots on multiple exchanges, including havelock (configured to trade only neo&bee stocks). And although the idea of 'war bots' is cool, it isn't practical without A) extensive knowledge of where everybody put their stop losses or B) extensive knowledge about the exact algorithms of other bots.

Lol, so it's YOUR bot i've had to mess with to get my PETA trades through at the price I want!

[howardb]

Question, as I'm fairly new to trading. When some of you refer to "Bots" messing with prices and such, what do you mean by this? How can anyone control the prices when it depends on who is selling... just trying to understand. Thanks.

It is not so much that bots are 'controlling the price' they are simply taking advantage of what is quite often a large difference between the highest price anyone is willing to pay (the bid) and the lowest price anyone is willing to sell at (the ask) the difference between which is known as the spread.
So for example if a stock has a bid of 1.00 and an ask of 1.07 then you could automate a bot to notice the width of that spread and place a bid at 1.01 and a sell at 1.06 this means the next market trade (at best price) would be yours. To make profit doing this, you need to balance the number of times you buy with the number of times you sell ie your not really trying to aquire or lose stock just trading the spread.

This used to be a manual 'battle' but as systems got faster only bots could keep up with fast moving prices and of course fighting other bots. When you get competing bots the price difference (spread) tends to shrink, so some people say this is good for market liquidity. Hope that helps

[Aireun]

Question, as I'm fairly new to trading. When some of you refer to "Bots" messing with prices and such, what do you mean by this? How can anyone control the prices when it depends on who is selling... just trying to understand. Thanks.

It is not so much that bots are 'controlling the price' they are simply taking advantage of what is quite often a large difference between the highest price anyone is willing to pay (the bid) and the lowest price anyone is willing to sell at (the ask) the difference between which is known as the spread.
So for example if a stock has a bid of 1.00 and an ask of 1.07 then you could automate a bot to notice the width of that spread and place a bid at 1.01 and a sell at 1.06 this means the next market trade (at best price) would be yours. To make profit doing this, you need to balance the number of times you buy with the number of times you sell ie your not really trying to aquire or lose stock just trading the spread.

This used to be a manual 'battle' but as systems got faster only bots could keep up with fast moving prices and of course fighting other bots. When you get competing bots the price difference (spread) tends to shrink, so some people say this is good for market liquidity. Hope that helps

Thats perfect, thank you!

[rdyoung]

Why do you have to resort to name calling?
OH, yeah I know why, because you are out of your depths and instead of educating yourself, you play bully to cover up your lack of knowledge.
I suggest you look up the following authors for a start, victor sperandeo and stan weinstein. They provide a great starting place for those looking to trade stocks/commodities/etc.

Boy you are so far off the mark with me I'm not sure where to begin, but it does typify your ignorance:

a) Do I know how the markets work? Well lets see, i've been personally trading for 30 years in pretty much all available instruments. I've been a software designer in futures trading for a major scandinavian bank, and a settlement systems designer for a major US brokerage. These days I'm involved in helping UK banks implement cloud infrastructure.

b) Why do I name call? I have a very low tolerance for ignorant people who try to lecture other people with misleading or plain incorrect facts.

c) Why do I think you are plain wrong? Suggesting the one week dividend cycle will engender different price behaviour to the more normal quarterly or annual cycle of corporations is bizaar at best. The value of the upcoming dividend WILL be discounted to share price when it's paid (ex div). Just like every stock in the world. Right now that dividend is NOT big enough to make a difference, but that behaviour WILL assert itself as the dividend grows.

d) Can the share price drop? Yes if course it can, already described how,you chose to ignore the point, so i'll make it again. The share price will drop if/when the market realises the asset base growth is not keeping pace with the Bitcoin difficulty growth! Because THAT is the basis for fundamental valuation of the project's shares (The future potential earnings + physical asset values) REGARDLESS OF DIVIDEND. Get it?

First, you jumping to insults undermines anything intelligent and worthwhile you have to say. If you can leave the insults behind and carry on a conversation devoid of the BS, I am happy to debate or discuss any topic you can think of, if I don't know it well I will educate myself, the more data the better.

Second, while you are correct about the shareprice possibly being bearish if and when peta is unable to keep up with difficulty, that day is not here yet as they have not fully deployed the 700ths, and week to week as long as they keep deploying hardware it is likely that the price will keep steady or possibly slightly climbing. You also can not discount the people who stated here that they will be holding longterm, I am one of those, and while my holdings aren't enough to make a large dent, its fewer shares that are on the open market.

Third, you are trying to apply the same trading techniques and mentality to this market as you would stocks or commodity futures.
You can't trade a penny stock the same way you would goog or ibm. The market cap isn't there, neither is the volume. Pennies as well as the virtual markets such as havelock or cryptostocks, are traded more on emotion rather than technical analysis.

I am glad you posted your resume here, I hope it helps you feel better about yourself, as for me, I know what I know and what I don't know, those who know more than I do on a particular subject can likely judge my knowledge and skill level based on my posts.
The authors I suggested you check out, they are who I started with. Weinsteins how to profit in bull and bear markets is the penultimate guide IMHO for those who are either looking into or are already into technical analysis based trading. However, as I have said before, the volume just isn't there to trade securities such as peta or asicminer with technical analysis, instead you have to do your DD and treat it as if you were an VC or angel investor and decide whether you think they have a solid business plan and a clear and attainable path to being profitable.

This entire thread is filled with posts giving a pretty thorough analysis of petas potential profit or potential lack of.
There is likely a decent amount of BTC on the sidelines waiting for peta to fully deploy, when this happens I would bet that we see a decent spike in the share price. Along with those like me that are and will continue to reinvest, taking the shares from those that were only in it for a quick profit.

[Darkstone2]

Please name me one that is confirmed to be caused by bots. The last time i checked wikipedia there was still discussion whether the 2010 flash crash was caused by bots or fat fingers.

One fat finger does not a flash crash make if there are no bots ready to go completely nuts afterwards.

The funny thing is that is isn't even confirmed that bots did really go panic selling afterwards.

Yes, bots do go nuts. But not in a way that results in flash crashes. Bots panic selling assets is a good way to bankrupt your hft firm within a few microseconds, surely there are security measures in place to prevent that.

[howardb]

Why do you have to resort to name calling?
OH, yeah I know why, because you are out of your depths and instead of educating yourself, you play bully to cover up your lack of knowledge.
I suggest you look up the following authors for a start, victor sperandeo and stan weinstein. They provide a great starting place for those looking to trade stocks/commodities/etc.

Boy you are so far off the mark with me I'm not sure where to begin, but it does typify your ignorance:

a) Do I know how the markets work? Well lets see, i've been personally trading for 30 years in pretty much all available instruments. I've been a software designer in futures trading for a major scandinavian bank, and a settlement systems designer for a major US brokerage. These days I'm involved in helping UK banks implement cloud infrastructure.

b) Why do I name call? I have a very low tolerance for ignorant people who try to lecture other people with misleading or plain incorrect facts.

c) Why do I think you are plain wrong? Suggesting the one week dividend cycle will engender different price behaviour to the more normal quarterly or annual cycle of corporations is bizaar at best. The value of the upcoming dividend WILL be discounted to share price when it's paid (ex div). Just like every stock in the world. Right now that dividend is NOT big enough to make a difference, but that behaviour WILL assert itself as the dividend grows.

d) Can the share price drop? Yes if course it can, already described how,you chose to ignore the point, so i'll make it again. The share price will drop if/when the market realises the asset base growth is not keeping pace with the Bitcoin difficulty growth! Because THAT is the basis for fundamental valuation of the project's shares (The future potential earnings + physical asset values) REGARDLESS OF DIVIDEND. Get it?

First, you jumping to insults undermines anything intelligent and worthwhile you have to say. If you can leave the insults behind and carry on a conversation devoid of the BS, I am happy to debate or discuss any topic you can think of, if I don't know it well I will educate myself, the more data the better.

Second, while you are correct about the shareprice possibly being bearish if and when peta is unable to keep up with difficulty, that day is not here yet as they have not fully deployed the 700ths, and week to week as long as they keep deploying hardware it is likely that the price will keep steady or possibly slightly climbing. You also can not discount the people who stated here that they will be holding longterm, I am one of those, and while my holdings aren't enough to make a large dent, its fewer shares that are on the open market.

Third, you are trying to apply the same trading techniques and mentality to this market as you would stocks or commodity futures.
You can't trade a penny stock the same way you would goog or ibm. The market cap isn't there, neither is the volume. Pennies as well as the virtual markets such as havelock or cryptostocks, are traded more on emotion rather than technical analysis.

I am glad you posted your resume here, I hope it helps you feel better about yourself, as for me, I know what I know and what I don't know, those who know more than I do on a particular subject can likely judge my knowledge and skill level based on my posts.
The authors I suggested you check out, they are who I started with. Weinsteins how to profit in bull and bear markets is the penultimate guide IMHO for those who are either looking into or are already into technical analysis based trading. However, as I have said before, the volume just isn't there to trade securities such as peta or asicminer with technical analysis, instead you have to do your DD and treat it as if you were an VC or angel investor and decide whether you think they have a solid business plan and a clear and attainable path to being profitable.

This entire thread is filled with posts giving a pretty thorough analysis of petas potential profit or potential lack of.
There is likely a decent amount of BTC on the sidelines waiting for peta to fully deploy, when this happens I would bet that we see a decent spike in the share price. Along with those like me that are and will continue to reinvest, taking the shares from those that were only in it for a quick profit.

You really are an insulting, patronising, argumentative person. You should really re-read your own posts before you start calling anyone else out for name calling.

None of your above 'analysis', and I use that term in the very loosest of senses, supports your previous arguments for share price stability or selling post dividend "risk free". The very presence of that risk element in the share price means this investment is completely different from your earlier assertion that this is "just like buying hashing contracts" or words to that effect.

Yes, we are not there yet on when the share price might go down due to not keeping up with BTC difficulty, thats kind of an obvious thing to state during initial rollout phase, but the fact that it is small cap and illiquid is exactly why there is a high risk of a very sudden and deep fall at the very first sign of hash growth not being fast enough (either from not rolling out phase 1 fast enough or failing to roll out the re-investment hardware fast enough or re-investment not being high enough).

When confidence is lost in an illiquid stock, it only takes a few sellers to completely overwhelm the shallow bid, and price falls off a cliff out of all proportion to the real failure to deliver! That can happen, and it can happen at any time, so nobody should be getting into this stock on your advice that it's safe to trade it just for the weekly dividends, that would be bad advice, you may well find yourself losing everything.