[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[Puppet]

Not looking for exit, passed some nice ones a while back that could of been taken if that was the case.

But not willing to put your money where your mouth is and take my bet based on the claims Ive actually made.
Nice.

perhaps you really would have been better warning AM investors who brought at 4.5btc, they need a bit of comforting after 2200+% losses more so than buyers here. I

Comforting? You'd have to be a braindead idiot to have lost money on AM. IPO at 0.1 BTC, paid a multiple of that in dividends and still trades 2.5x higher than IPO.  Of course it bubbled, and friedcat dropped the ball after gen 1,  but at least AM had and still has a business plan that doesnt defy math.

'm sure you would of been around at peta IPO and called it a bad investment like icebreaker

I did not. But if I had said it, it would have been as valid as making the same claim with Gigamining or pirate bonds or labcoin. In all those cases early adopters had plenty of exit opportunities at high multiples of the IPO, but unless you were betting on that for short term flipping,  they were fundamentally bad investments. Cryptx is no different in that regard.

good play on the activemining confidence by the way, happy to take some lessons from you  

Did you actually read what I wrote in that quote? I wasnt endorsing active mining, I was arguing Labcoin was a far more stupid bet. Was I wrong?  labcoin investors lost every last satoshi, activeminer investors at least manage a dollar denominated profit if they want out.  BTW, if you really followed that thread or browsed my posting history, you will also have noticed I predicted ActM would run in to legal trouble for selling unregistered securities, and I was ridiculed by most. Of course, I was proven correct. If you want to find an actual bad prediction of me, look harder. Take your time.

[nwfella]

Is it just me or is the Buy Support on havelock for petamine looking kinda flimsy?!

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

All Cryptx need is to announce plans about plans to make its own boards.
Buying minign equipment cheaper than a market price is good, but some people argue this is not enough to be successfull mining security.

[Puppet]

All Cryptx need is to announce plans about plans to make its own boards.

I thought they were already producing their own bitfury boards.
Of course, the real profit there is selling those boards,  there still seems to be a healthy margin to be had on mining boards if you can build them in volume. But any profit from that will not benefit petamine bag holders,  you didnt invest in a hardware company, you  didnt buy a piece of "cryptx", you invested in a mining bond, which used to be rightfully called a mining turd before everyone forgot how bad those have historically worked.

In fact cryptx could, if he wanted to, sell his own produced boards to all you peta bag holders at whatever inflated price he wanted to, and you'd have no say over it thanks to the reinvestment clause.

[blizeH]

Is it best to invest my BTC directly onto the site, or invest via Havelock do you guys think?

[spartan82]

Is it best to invest my BTC directly onto the site, or invest via Havelock do you guys think?

You can only purchase shares of this security via Havelock. There are no direct shares been held as far as I know they are all pass thru via havelock

[blizeH]

Oh! Thank you - that makes the decision a lot easier then

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

All Cryptx need is to announce plans about plans to make its own boards.

I thought they were already producing their own bitfury boards.
Of course, the real profit there is selling those boards,  there still seems to be a healthy margin to be had on mining boards if you can build them in volume. But any profit from that will not benefit petamine bag holders,  you didnt invest in a hardware company, you  didnt buy a piece of "cryptx", you invested in a mining bond, which used to be rightfully called a mining turd before everyone forgot how bad those have historically worked.

In fact cryptx could, if he wanted to, sell his own produced boards to all you peta bag holders at whatever inflated price he wanted to, and you'd have no say over it thanks to the reinvestment clause.

So you just make an assumption that boards will be sold for premium?  There is no bag hodlers here, noone having over 5% talks here, its just small fishes holding 100-1000 shares who speak and who in fact follow you. But its good to me, every time a share price drops, fills my buy order. So thank you!

[Puppet]

Puppet, I'm tempted to fill your bids so we can have another week without you in our thread.  Your game is getting tiring.

You're not the first to attack my credibiliy or motives in this thread or others. Allow me to go off topic and address this. Ive been called a troll or sockpuppet countless times before (even caused me to adopt this nick, the irony of which seems to elude most), including I believe by you on several occasions. But how often was I wrong?  Lets review a few of them, feel free to check my posting history to verify my claims:

- Usagi's Nyan A/B/C, BMF, CPA, & co

Lost count of how often I was accused of trolling, being a paid shill and what not, but in the end math doesnt lie and I was dead right and usagi's deceptive house of cards mostly imploded even before GLBSE went offline. Over 17K BTC was raised in the various IPO's, only pocket change was left in BMF  (and even that may have been "lost" when Usagi claimed to have lost his wallet recenly).

- Patrick Harnett starfish/kraken

Once, one of the must trusted people on this forum. Again basic math and logic proved without a doubt he wittingly or unwittingly was running a ponzi scheme on the back off pirate; didnt stop the fanboys from trying to crucify me for months until one day, Patrick vanished and ~10K BTC debt along with him.

- Labcoin

I demonstrated their initial business case to be highly improbable and as evidence trickled in, increasingly argued it was an obvious scam. Took over 8 months and 8000 BTC before I was proven right yet again.

- Gigamining

Pretty much a carbon copy of Cryptx. Petamine "avant la lettre", poster boy for bitcoin securities. Not a scammer, ran/runs his business professionally and best I can tell, honestly, but was simply smart enough to sell his overpriced hashrate to the biggest fools, just like crypx. ROI predictably never happened. GigaVPS was however not smart enough  to consult a lawyer until after I pleaded many times to do so after GLBSE closure. Just as predictably, his lawyer told him what I had been saying all along, and gigamining bonds where turned in to private, non tradable bonds (that never ROI'd).

- AMT

Demonstrated them to be liars from the outset, promising impossible specs and impossible delivery dates. Didnt stop half the forum from attacking me and questioning my motives. Now, more than 6 months later, AMT customer are still waiting in so far they are not involved in legal action against them.

There are many more examples, obsi's and countless other ponzi's, basically anything ever listed on GLBSE that I took the trouble to look in to, but this should give you an idea.

Was I never really wrong?  Well, when it comes to AM, I was sceptical and I always considered it high risk high reward. I did invest a small amount in the IPO and achieved a nice profit, but nowhere near what I could have achieved. Most important reason I didnt bet more and got out so soon, was that I had no trust in the legal viability of the exchange (GLBSE) and had serious doubts about the anonymity of the issuer.The former fear, I was proven right about only weeks later. Friedcat managed that well and investors didnt suffer, but its difficult to call this a bad call on my part.

ANd then about the only time I did get it wrong: MtGox. I was very late in recognizing that they were indeed out of funds and running fractional reserve. I found that very hard to believe based just on their trading fee revenue alone; barring a loss of their entire cold wallet, I couldnt see how they would be illiquid. Now I did not lose a satoshi on gox, I never keep more than a small amount of coins on any exchange for longer than 5 minutes, but I will admit I was tempted to wire some funds and buy some cheap coins on Gox before the collapse. Fully aware it would be high risk. Thats the closest I recall to being dead wrong.

As far as track records go, I will hold this against anyone on this forum. Particularly against yours Dhenson. I wonder how many BTC you would have saved had you listened to me only once in a while.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

Thank you for your honesty. If you wish to protect people's money, so what do you think is a good alternative to PETA to invest in? 

[NotLambchop]

Thank you for your honesty. If you wish to protect people's money, so what do you think is a good alternative to PETA to invest in?  

When told not to "invest" in a streetcorner shell game, a reasonable person responds with "thank you."
You, on the other hand, retort with "so which shell game should I invest in, if you're so darn smart?"
The answer is "none of them" BiteMyShinyMetalAss.  None of them.

[Puppet]

Thank you for your honesty. If you wish to protect people's money, so what do you think is a good alternative to PETA to invest in? 

Ive been following bitcoin since 2011 or so. I must have seen nearly 1000 BTC denominated investment instruments come and go, and I remember all of 2 that made their investors a positive ROI; ActiveMiner, which was high risk but did pan out,  and SatoshiDice, even though that profit was extremely limited for investors,  and mostly went to Eriks own wallet. So if you ask me now which is the third one, I dont see it yet, unless you can find ways to short sell all those junk bonds and shares.

In the meanwhile, cold wallets have grown in value ~10000% in just a few short years. I dont get why people insist on looking for maybe a few % on top of that, at a (usually)  enormous risk or even near certainty of loss.  I also dont get how people think BTC is even a good investment instrument. How many people try to invest their gold? A growing economy creates more fiat money, it doesnt create more gold, nor more bitcoins.

[ChevaL]

Thank you for your honesty. If you wish to protect people's money, so what do you think is a good alternative to PETA to invest in? 

Ive been following bitcoin since 2011 or so. I must have seen nearly 1000 BTC denominated investment instruments come and go, and I remember all of 2 that made their investors a positive ROI; ActiveMiner, which was high risk but did pan out,  and SatoshiDice, even though that profit was extremely limited for investors,  and mostly went to Eriks own wallet. So if you ask me now which is the third one, I dont see it yet, unless you can find ways to short sell all those junk bonds and shares.

In the meanwhile, cold wallets have grown in value ~10000% in just a few short years. I dont get why people insist on looking for maybe a few % on top of that, at a (usually)  enormous risk or even near certainty of loss.  I also dont get how people think BTC is even a good investment instrument. How many people try to invest their gold? A growing economy creates more fiat money, it doesnt create more gold, nor more bitcoins.

You are right but I think that for most of us it's just exciting to take that risk. I wouldn't put all my coins on an investment like this BUT I would put a couple coins in just because it might just work out, I might just win the lottery and a make a couple coins. Everything is not about Min/Maxing you know? People like the risk, people like the excitement of being part of a ''project'' but yes, if we're talking about eliminating risk/ and maxing returns, Buying Peta shares is not the best idea.

For me, just holding and waiting for a miracle got boring.. fast and i'm now throwing coins left and right on different ''projects'' and hopefully it will work out and if not.. too bad.

[NotLambchop]

@ChevaL:  It would be fine if everyone had your outlook.  There's no harm in buying an occasional scratch ticket or pretending to be an investor.  As long as everyone understands that it's just make-believe.

Unfortunately many here forget, and start thinking that what they are doing here is a viable approach to generating income.  When said income fails to materialize, they become agitated, appealing to the same government regulators they wished to be free of by investing in unregulated securities.

This, of course, brings unwanted attention from TLAs, to say nothing of being an embarrassment to Bitcoin.

[Puppet]

BUT I would put a couple coins in just because it might just work out, I might just win the lottery and a make a couple coins.

If you gamble some coins on satoshidice, or any of the betting sites, or by playing online poker for bitcoin, you might make a couple of coins and actually get some excitement.
Betting mid/long term on mining derivatives, not a chance. ITs like looking at this graph:



And then betting next month difficulty will be lower. I sure hope that excites you a lot, because it wont make you any coins.

[Benny1985]

BUT I would put a couple coins in just because it might just work out, I might just win the lottery and a make a couple coins.

If you gamble some coins on satoshidice, or any of the betting sites, or by playing online poker for bitcoin, you might make a couple of coins and actually get some excitement.
Betting mid/long term on mining derivatives, not a chance. ITs like looking at this graph:



And then betting next month difficulty will be lower. I sure hope that excites you a lot, because it wont make you any coins.

Wrong chart to look at. This is the chart that matters:



The key question is how fast the network is slated to grow to prove ROI. Since it peaked in September, we've been on a very steady decline. Obviously, difficulty isn't going to go into the negative, but the market has been saturated heavily enough to where network increases are likely to follow BTC prices more than innovations in chip development, since everyone is using 28-40nm technology now.

[Puppet]

Wrong chart to look at. This is the chart that matters:

Fair enough. So what do you see ? I see 1-1.5% daily growth. Unlike anyone else in this thread, I actually ran the numbers and published the results, based on an assumption of less than 1% daily growth and 3%/week growth deceleration, which is much faster than historically, and very unlikely given whats about to hit the market (hint: Neptune, AM gen 2, BFL and some others). In case you missed it,  even in that scenario, the outcome  wasnt exactly very good.

So why doesnt anyone show me a simulation that does yield a positive ROI and is remotely plausible?

The key question is how fast the network is slated to grow to prove ROI. Since it peaked in September, we've been on a very steady decline. Obviously, difficulty isn't going to go into the negative, but the market has been saturated heavily enough to where network increases are likely to follow BTC prices more than innovations in chip development, since everyone is using 28-40nm technology now.

And that almost sounds reasonable, but its not. What you miss here, is that if PETA mining could be profitable with its off the shelve, 4.7 BTC/TH purchase costs and skyhigh electricity costs, then all the new hardware being offered today, and  if nothing else, those private KnC/Bitfury/BFL/AM mines will be many times more profitable So the market is not saturated, not by a long shot, and difficulty will keep going up as fast as these companies can produce hardware until even they are no longer clearly profitable at marginal production costs. We are at least an order of magnitude away from that.

[ChevaL]

Wrong chart to look at. This is the chart that matters:

Fair enough. So what do you see ? I see 1-1.5% daily growth. Unlike anyone else in this thread, I actually ran the numbers and published the results, based on an assumption of less than 1% daily growth and 3%/week growth deceleration, which is much faster than historically, and very unlikely given whats about to hit the market (hint: Neptune, AM gen 2, BFL and some others). In case you missed it,  even in that scenario, the outcome  wasnt exactly very good.

So why doesnt anyone show me a simulation that does yield a positive ROI and is remotely plausible?

The key question is how fast the network is slated to grow to prove ROI. Since it peaked in September, we've been on a very steady decline. Obviously, difficulty isn't going to go into the negative, but the market has been saturated heavily enough to where network increases are likely to follow BTC prices more than innovations in chip development, since everyone is using 28-40nm technology now.

And that almost sounds reasonable, but its not. What you miss here, is that if PETA mining could be profitable with its off the shelve, 4.7 BTC/TH purchase costs and skyhigh electricity costs, then all the new hardware being offered today, and  if nothing else, those private KnC/Bitfury/BFL/AM mines will be many times more profitable So the market is not saturated, not by a long shot, and difficulty will keep going up as fast as these companies can produce hardware until even they are no longer clearly profitable at marginal production costs. We are at least an order of magnitude away from that.

What if.. one of these big ''miner builders'' decide to sell their miners to CryptX at a stupid cheap price while buying loads of PETA shares (initiating a huge pump) ? wouldn't that be profitable/possible?

[Benny1985]

Wrong chart to look at. This is the chart that matters:

Fair enough. So what do you see ? I see 1-1.5% daily growth. Unlike anyone else in this thread, I actually ran the numbers and published the results, based on an assumption of less than 1% daily growth and 3%/week growth deceleration, which is much faster than historically, and very unlikely given whats about to hit the market (hint: Neptune, AM gen 2, BFL and some others). In case you missed it,  even in that scenario, the outcome  wasnt exactly very good.

So why doesnt anyone show me a simulation that does yield a positive ROI and is remotely plausible?

The key question is how fast the network is slated to grow to prove ROI. Since it peaked in September, we've been on a very steady decline. Obviously, difficulty isn't going to go into the negative, but the market has been saturated heavily enough to where network increases are likely to follow BTC prices more than innovations in chip development, since everyone is using 28-40nm technology now.

And that almost sounds reasonable, but its not. What you miss here, is that if PETA mining could be profitable with its off the shelve, 4.7 BTC/TH purchase costs and skyhigh electricity costs, then all the new hardware being offered today, and  if nothing else, those private KnC/Bitfury/BFL/AM mines will be many times more profitable So the market is not saturated, not by a long shot, and difficulty will keep going up as fast as these companies can produce hardware until even they are no longer clearly profitable at marginal production costs. We are at least an order of magnitude away from that.

Oh no, I agree that what PETA is offering cannot be sustained indefinitely. I am getting ready to list on Havelock with a much more sustainable offering. But I was just chiming in to state that the difficulty, long term, is going to play out differently than what we've dealt with for the past year.

[Puppet]

Oh no, I agree that what PETA is offering cannot be sustained indefinitely. I am getting ready to list on Havelock with a much more sustainable offering. But I was just chiming in to state that the difficulty, long term, is going to play out differently than what we've dealt with for the past year.

Obviously. Last year we saw nearly a 1000 fold increase in hashrate. That is not going to happen again, but if whatever you intend to offer has an ROI that is dependent on difficulty growth slowing down so it wont increase 10 fold in a year, I wont be buying.