[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[Puppet]

Lol. Reality check dude. You're forecast predicts a rapid and dramatic div drop - something which has NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

In fact, divs have consistently risen.

Try modelling reality next time, not just whack arbitrary numbers.

Edit: I misread. But this is even funnier. How do you expect dividends to rise when difficulty is exploding and hashrate is fixed for the next ~3 months?

[jjdub7]

Lol. Reality check dude. You're forecast predicts a rapid and dramatic div drop - something which has NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

In fact, divs have consistently risen.

Try modelling reality next time, not just whack arbitrary numbers.

Nobody gives a fuck where the dividends are trending once it falls below IPO price.  You're ignoring both the fundamentals and the behavior of markets - Wharton, I assume?

[EdoBcn]

That being said, the Scrypt offering seemed moderately better thought-out, down only 25% from its most recent IPO price.

Scryptx is doing fine. At least for few months more and only if cryptx doesn't screw things up with additional ipo's and bad communication. (yes, no communication at all seems better than bad one)

[Freeside]

@theMiracle, just want to check, that was mockery right? (Hope your grandma can cope sans chair)

 I’m not even sure if any of those posts were in response to my first, or even that anyone read it,  but I’m going to carry on regardless.

I get that PETA isn’t looking too bright right now, especially with the ever increasing hash rate. But rather than kicking cryptX, who seems to have a pretty good track record so far and has gone out of their way to keep the mine afloat, why not have a discussion on what to do about the situation rather than sounding the dive alarm and posting titanic gif’s ? (funny as it is)

Rather than start a selling panic where we all lose out by selling below IPO, why not find a way to fix the mine so we all win?

PETA has  ~1.2 petahash right? The network is now ~130 petahash  so we are at about 0.9% or 313BTC or 185,100 USD per WEEK! Now maybe I’m just dirt poor, but that sounds like a lot of mulla to me. I’m no mining expert (clearly), but that HAS to be more than enough to buy new mining gear and dig ourselves out of this hole right? 
If it’s not possible (and please tell me if it’s not) then why is ANYONE still mining? We have to keep up with the network, probably at the cost of divs, else we’re all down and out.

Does this make sense to anyone here? Am I nuts, why would stopping divs to pay back the mine not be a good idea?  Is there anyone posting here who is NOT trying troll the price down lower?

[Puppet]

Rather than start a selling panic where we all lose out by selling below IPO, why not find a way to fix the mine so we all win?

There is nothing to fix. The hardware has been bought, it generates a mining income, but that will drop faster than snow melts in the desert and never come close to earning its cost. The only way to "fix" that is by preventing everyone else from buying mining hardware. How do you plan on doing that?

PETA has  ~1.2 petahash right? The network is now ~130 petahash  so we are at about 0.9% or 313BTC or 185,100 USD per WEEK!

Yeah, and in two weeks it will be 30% less, and it will keep falling very very fast, so fast that in a few months it will earn less than they cost in hosting.. Moreover, 313 BTC isnt a whole lot of money compared to how much was invested.

Now maybe I’m just dirt poor, but that sounds like a lot of mulla to me. I’m no mining expert (clearly), but that HAS to be more than enough to buy new mining gear and dig ourselves out of this hole right?  

You mean withhold dividends and use that to dig an even bigger hole? Keep doing that, and soon enough there will be nothing left. Besides, do tha math, and see how little hashrate your dividend could possibly buy.

If it’s not possible (and please tell me if it’s not) then why is ANYONE still mining?

Because large operations have an electricity cost that is at least 5x lower than Cryptx. Because KnC, Cointerra, cex.io and several others dont buy their hardware at market rates, but produce them for a cost that is by my guess, around 1/10th of the market price, and get even that subsidized by retail customers paying far too high rates,  like Cryptx . And because many are as clueless as you and will buy miners no matter what.

If you want to know what I think is the least worst outcome at this point: sell all the hardware asap, some people still dont get it and will pay considerably more for it than it will ever mine. Pay out the revenue from the sales as dividend and call it a day. That is what would benefit shareholders the most, but of course, is of no benefit to the issuer, who will no longer pocket his 70+ BTC per week hosting fee. And  since the issuer holds no shares whatsoever himself, I wouldnt hold my breath. Im sure he would love to withhold dividends and dig a deeper hole though. That would increase his hosting fee, he may well pocket some kickbacks on the purchase of new hardware, and lose nothing in the process. win-win for him, lose-lose for you.

[Puppet]

. After all the scams and bad investments I have tried to expose over the years, I dont actually recall being thanked once even after the fact.  I do recall often being accused of actually having caused the collapse. Im sure that will be next here too .

Got that right too.

[theMiracle]

...

If it’s not possible (and please tell me if it’s not) then why is ANYONE still mining?

Because large operations have an electricity cost that is at least 5x lower than Cryptx. Because KnC, Cointerra, cex.io and several others dont buy their hardware at market rates, but produce them for a cost that is by my guess, around 1/10th of the market price, and get even that subsidized by retail customers paying far too high rates,  like Cryptx . And because many are as clueless as you and will buy miners no matter what.
...

All of the above, plus the ASIC lag--miners have pre-ordered the hardware looooong before starting to mine.  When the hardware arrives, the only remaining option is to immediately toss it into the trash (total loss), or mine with it until (worth(coins mined)) becomes < (cost(electricity to mine those coins)).
Don't know why all the above isn't obvious.

inb4: "lol I sellz teh minerz!!1!"--not when everyone else is trying to do the same thing.  Greater fools have dried up substantially.  Still a few left, judging by this thread, but nowhere near enough to absorb this fail.

[nwfella]

I'm going to start slowly dumping my few shares.  Lack of communication on part of CryptX, no custom-board(s), debt that will pretty much take forever to pay off at this rate.  No new hash to be coming online for sometime.  Real bummer.  I'm sure cryptx could care less so long as the hosting/admin fee's are coming in (way over priced btw if really 100% solar).  Anyway, hope things turn around for this asset and will hold what I can but not encouraged atm.

[pedrog]

(way over priced btw if really 100% solar).

Because in Belgium the sun shines 24h a day...

[Freeside]

Okay, puppet thankyou for giving me very reasonable answers, although the insults really aren’t necessary.

I ran the numbers, assuming 12% increase per week, if divs stopped this week then the loan would be paid back in 3 weeks and five weeks after that we would have 400BTC to buy new gear with right?  I grant you it would be pretty hard to double PETA’s hash rate in that time to keep up with the network…with only 400BTC, unless CryptX can get their hands on cheap rigs from somewhere, finance another loan, or the next price bubble hits us. 

So, a few questions for you, is the cost/GH at cex.io or anywhere else cheaper than here at PETA?  Because from what you have said, mining/hosted mining/cloud mining/ being a part of the bitcoin network are not financially viable unless you are producing chips?  And it’s not PETA you have an issue with, but ALL mining. Are you saying that only the manufactures of chips are now able to afford to keep up with the bitcoin network?

If so, is it possible to buy shares in said manufactures? 

So if you have no shares in peta, and think all mining is doomed to fail, are you very busy pointing this out to all of the other bitcointalk mining threads? Why does PETA warrant your time?

[Puppet]

Okay, puppet thankyou for giving me very reasonable answers, although the insults really aren’t necessary.

I ran the numbers, assuming 12% increase per week, if divs stopped this week then the loan would be paid back in 3 weeks

Ahm.. lol?
You are not actually calculating with a 12% per week dividend increase, are you? Network hashrate is currently growing at that speed, meaning dividends will drop by that speed (in fact, faster since hosting costs remain constant).  If that growth were to continue (which even I am not predicting) the loan would never be paid back in full ever, even if dividend payments where stopped today.

So, a few questions for you, is the cost/GH at cex.io or anywhere else cheaper than here at PETA?  Because from what you have said, mining/hosted mining/cloud mining/ being a part of the bitcoin network are not financially viable unless you are producing chips?  

Bingo. Or selling hardware or hashrate. Cryptx himself, Im sure is doing just fine.

And it’s not PETA you have an issue with, but ALL mining.

The problem is inherent to the weird market mechanisms, and certainly not unique to Peta. But peta pricing is completely absurd, it makes even cex.io look cheap. Well, maybe BFL "mining by the gh" is even worse, but I cant imagine they sold any contracts for the past 6 months.

Are you saying that only the manufactures of chips are now able to afford to keep up with the bitcoin network?

They dont have to keep up, they create the growth, and get paid handsomely for it.

If so, is it possible to buy shares in said manufactures?  

Yes, you can buy asicminer shares. If you had done that during their IPO, you would have seen several 100% profit, and if you sold near the peak, a few 1000%. Whether its wise to buy now, I'll let you do your own research ( no doubt its far better than peta, but then so is almost anything else).

So if you have no shares in peta, and think all mining is doomed to fail, are you very busy pointing this out to all of the other bitcointalk mining threads? Why does PETA warrant your time?

I already explained that a few times.

[Freeside]

I may be newb, but I’m not an idiot. 12% network hashrate increase was what I meant by 12% increase/week.

 If all divs are stopped 262BTC next week (-75BTC hosting and no network increase by then).
177BTC the week after (25% network increase)
177BTC the week after that (network increase will happen that day (11th July))
= Loan paid off by 11th July and then there would be BTC collected for re-investment again.  I’ll have to trust you on the producers 1/10th price to self, but cryptx has managed good prices / produced their own boards in the past, but it does look like an uphill struggle. It’s also looking very worrying for a de-centalised network to be cornered by a handfull of chip producers do you not think?

I understand cryptx is maintaining radio silence and I understand why, but it would be very useful to hear their plans for the next few weeks.

[cryptoconomist]

people that voted 50/50 reinvestment are to blame for the failure of Peta

I voted for a 10% div. until network stabilized and we can grow faster than the network

having a strong value in share price is more important than % of weekly divi

The network can't continue to grow like that for ever

[NotLambchop]

...
why not just call it a night, stop feverishly trying to prove a point to an audience of freshers that you already proved. & come back when you're prophecy rings true, if you are so sure. I promise you'll be able to come back and bask in a warm glow of vindication and it feels good man
...

There's no glow of vindication, ever.  The marks just move on to the next "investment opportunity," learning nothing, putting the blame on everyone but the ones who deserve it.

Case in point:

people that voted 50/50 reinvestment are to blame for the failure of Peta
...

[Korbman]

people that voted 50/50 reinvestment are to blame for the failure of Peta

While technically true, this is still a misdirected statement.

Investors who cast their votes can only base their decisions off of available information, including speculation. If 100 people are left to their own calculations, diligence, and intuition and cast a vote for one of three choices (35/65, 50/50, 65/35), they will vote for what they think makes sense and not necessarily in the best interest of the organization. Is that their fault? No. They may not have all the facts and they may not know the first thing about PETA's operations behind the scenes,...nor will they until the fund operators step up to actively (and properly) manage investor relations.

It's the job of the PETA operators to explain, in detail, the cause and effect of each option during a vote. They need to provide their view on each option and why one makes more sense than another. If you're opening your company to changes based a public vote, the more you can communicate with your investors, the better.

For every security that has passed through here, how is it there are only a handful of us that take communication seriously?

[nwfella]

people that voted 50/50 reinvestment are to blame for the failure of Peta

While technically true, this is still a misdirected statement.

Investors who cast their votes can only base their decisions off of available information, including speculation. If 100 people are left to their own calculations, diligence, and intuition and cast a vote for one of three choices (35/65, 50/50, 65/35), they will vote for what they think makes sense and not necessarily in the best interest of the organization. Is that their fault? No. They may not have all the facts and they may not know the first thing about PETA's operations behind the scenes,...nor will they until the fund operators step up to actively (and properly) manage investor relations.

It's the job of the PETA operators to explain, in detail, the cause and effect of each option during a vote. They need to provide their view on each option and why one makes more sense than another. If you're opening your company to changes based a public vote, the more you can communicate with your investors, the better.

For every security that has passed through here, how is it there are only a handful of us that take communication seriously?

All very true.  I myself voted for the 50/50 option and of course regret it now but the fact is very little information seems to be coming from cryptx himself and with all this wild speculation taking place and the lack of depth for buy orders it's not surprising things are heading the direction they are sadly.

Anyway, going to be keeping a close eye on this thread on the off chance cryptx comes through with some sort of announcement but not holding my breath any longer.

[NotLambchop]

...I promise you'll be able to come back and bask in a warm glow of vindication and it feels good man
...

Would it be rude to start basking nao?



Edit: 0.03601092, heady times...

Edit2:  0.03500100

Don't care, I'm basking!  How could this be wrong when it feels so right...

[nwfella]

Literally watching my cryptx stock value evaporate before my very eyes

[NotLambchop]

0.03300021   

And the volume's picking up.



Edit: ฿0.03283000

[ChevaL]

0.03300021   

And the volume's picking up.



Edit: ฿0.03283000

When are we buying back in Sir ?