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Author Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!  (Read 526267 times)
retro72
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August 07, 2014, 07:04:29 PM
Last edit: August 07, 2014, 11:21:05 PM by retro72
 #2961

Registered mail isn't being delivered?  Hmm...that's a problem for service of process.  I wasn't going to hire a process server because I figure no one worked in their offices but if I don't have an address to send mail, that will prove to be an impediment to obtaining justice against these asshats.  Any ideas on where to reach them?  Their attorneys aren't adequate to receive service.  In the US, every corporation and LLC must have a registered agent that is available to accept service of legal papers.  I don't see that for the UK -- am I wrong?
You don't need a registered agent in the UK.

There's and interesting article here: http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/serving-court-papers-documents.html
Quote
The “Irrebutable Presumption” of Service
It can be difficult for parties to litigation to understand that, in legal terms, service is not the same as delivery or receipt. A claim form is deemed to have been served on a defendant even if it has been returned to the court marked undelivered – provided that it was sent to the last known or usual address of the defendant. The claim form is even deemed to have been served if the claimant knows that the defendant has left that address – unless they know the defendant’s new address.
This rule is so strict that there is nothing the defendant can do to rebut it even if they have conclusive proof that they never received the document. There is even case law that says that service was still good where a document was sent to a property which had previously been destroyed.


It seems to suggest just sending the letter to the right address is enough, even if the defendant does not receive it.

Addresses I have:

Current:
66 Dickenson Road
Manchester
England
M14 5HF

Former (Accountancy firm):
64 Dickenson Road
Manchester
England
M14 5HF

Former (Residential):
3 Motcombe Farm Road
Heald Green
Stockport
Cheshire
England
SK8 3RW
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August 07, 2014, 07:11:42 PM
 #2962

Registered mail isn't being delivered?  Hmm...that's a problem for service of process.  I wasn't going to hire a process server because I figure no one worked in their offices but if I don't have an address to send mail, that will prove to be an impediment to obtaining justice against these asshats.  Any ideas on where to reach them?  Their attorneys aren't adequate to receive service.  In the US, every corporation and LLC must have a registered agent that is available to accept service of legal papers.  I don't see that for the UK -- am I wrong?
You don't need a registered agent in the UK.

There's and interesting article here: http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/serving-court-papers-documents.html
Quote
The “Irrebutable Presumption” of Service
It can be difficult for parties to litigation to understand that, in legal terms, service is not the same as delivery or receipt. A claim form is deemed to have been served on a defendant even if it has been returned to the court marked undelivered – provided that it was sent to the last known or usual address of the defendant. The claim form is even deemed to have been served if the claimant knows that the defendant has left that address – unless they know the defendant’s new address.
This rule is so strict that there is nothing the defendant can do to rebut it even if they have conclusive proof that they never received the document. There is even case law that says that service was still good where a document was sent to a property which had previously been destroyed.


It seems to suggest just sending the letter to the right address is enough, even if the defendant does not receive it.

Addresses I have:

Current:
66 Dickenson Road
Manchester
England
M14 5HF

Former (Accountancy firm):
66 Dickenson Road
Manchester
England
M14 5HF

Former (Residential):
3 Motcombe Farm Road
Heald Green
Stockport
Cheshire
England
SK8 3RW

My issue my local court won't accept that as valid service. I'm going by US rules, not UK but I will send it to the addresses you listed (except their accountancy firm).  I can't serve their legal team because they aren't agents for the purposes of service of process. I need to serve any employee or director of Alpha T.

Anyways, I'm still drafting the lawsuit, I'm just trying to push this through as soon as possible to get a judgment I can use in the UK to seize assets.

Thanks for the info again!
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August 07, 2014, 08:32:13 PM
 #2963

OK, Just got my Reply from mastercard. Since it´s been more than 120 day´s, they can´t do anything about it. They suggested to open a Claim with Paypal.
In the UK at least it's 120 days from the day you became aware of the problem. Not 120 days from payment. As Alpha failed to deliver on 31st of July as they stated many times, that is the date the chargeback clock should start running.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/how-do-i-use-chargeback

Quote
Time limit  There is a time limit on chargeback claims - typically 120 days - which starts from the day you become aware of a problem. There is also an overall cut off point of 540 days for Visa chargeback. Therefore, your deadline for requesting a chargeback is 120 days from discovering you have a problem, or 540 days from the transaction date, whichever comes first.

OK, thanks for the advice. I will give it a try. But I´m not sure, if the same Rules apply to me as i am a german citicen and ma CC Bank is in Luxenbourgh. But I will call them tomorrow again.

Another question: What, if i had Alpha told to Cancel my Order and give me a full refund( What they did´nt, as i am still listet as a customer on theyr Forum ) and on the other hand I offered my Contract on ebay for sale?
Any Ideas what could/will happen?
THX
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August 07, 2014, 08:42:35 PM
 #2964

Quote
In cases that involve the delayed delivery of goods or performance of services
that the cardholder asserts the merchant never provided, MasterCard will
calculate the period of 120 days from the latest anticipated date that the
merchant was to provide the goods or services.

Source: http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/TB_CB_Manual.pdf Page 34

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August 07, 2014, 09:28:01 PM
 #2965

Action Fraud reply

Quote
Thank you for taking the time to provide a report to Action Fraud in July. I’m writing to inform you of the current position of your case. Action Fraud reports are sent to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB) which is also part of the City of London Police, the national lead force for fraud. The NFIB collates intelligence from these reports, and puts all information received to the most effective use possible, either through enforcement, disruption or prevention activity. Your report has been assessed by the NFIB and the information you provided has enabled the police to take action to disrupt the activities of suspected criminals. This activity can be in the form of requests to suspend or take down:

• Fraudulent websites or email accounts,

• Telephone numbers,

• Bank accounts or foreign currency exchange accounts.

It can take time for disruption requests to be fully processed, so please be assured that this activity is in progress and that no further action is required on your part. You should not hear from us again in relation to this case, unless further analysis by the NFIB links your report to another crime in the future, in which case we will contact you to provide details of that referral.

Thank you again for taking the time to report and helping us to make the UK a more hostile place for fraudsters to operate in.

Yours sincerely,

Pete O'Doherty

Director of Action Fraud and the NFIB
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August 07, 2014, 09:44:57 PM
 #2966

office
Aug 07

xx our terms state that payment will be required within 8-10 weeks of shipment date. This means payment is required by this time, that is why we are requesting payment now from customers too, if a customer has paid before this time then their order is confirmed. Nowhere in those terms does it say the customer is not eligible to pay earlier.
It is merely stating when payment is required by us in order to complete assembly and shipment.  

office
Aug 07

Hello xx
Our terms clearly state a refund policy that is only in relation to the deposit amount and the refund policy clearly states that there are refunds upto 5 months, there is no refund policy after 5 months as that is beyond the refund timeline. Please view our terms again.
Also the dsr does not apply to our products as our products are not a consumer product. Our products are only for the sole purpose of mining cryptocurrencies which is a business activity and is taxable in the uk.  



Aug 07

Also, Alpha, I quote your terms on Jan 1

 The remaining payment to complete final assembly and shipment, will be required within 8-10 weeks of shipment date. If payment is not made in a set timely manner, we presume you no longer want the item, and will incur a majority penalty fee on your deposit refund and may be forfeited.

 "Within 8-10 weeks of shipment date."

 This is your terms specifically stating when payment is due in relation to shipping. You requested payment. You did not ship.

 Do you not have a copy of your terms from January that I agreed to?



Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014

That's a great way to try and look at it. You ignored the entire other half of this message. I still want my refund.
 
Aug 07

That's a great way to try and look at it. You ignored the entire other half of this message. I still want my refund.


Aug 07 12:44 PM

In our terms we clearly state that payment will be taken 8-10 weeks before we expect to deliver, this is a statement. We are in the 8-10 week period now as our terms state delivery can be upto q3 and customers are still allowed to pay which means the terms are not broken.
 You can still pay now if you did not pay earlier.
 We did not state specifically that we have to ship after 8-10 weeks, it was just a statement that we will be taking payments at this time, and we currently are.
 Nowhere in our terms does it state we cannot take payments earlier than 8 to 10 weeks before shipment, it was simply a statement to tell customers when payments will be taken so they can prepare.


Aug 06

 Alpha Technology,
 Nowhere in the terms and conditions that I agreed to does it say, anywhere, under any circumstances, that after 5 months have passed there will be no opportunity for a refund before product delivery. It is fine that you are still on track for a Q3 delivery. That is great. It does not affect my request for a refund. As you have absolutely nothing written in your terms regarding cancellation between 6 months after order and before product delivery, I am within full legal rights to request a refund and unless you provide it, you are the ones who will be violating not only your own terms and conditions, but the laws in your own country and the laws in my country (USA).

 Additionally, you have in fact, violated your terms and conditions. Payment 8-10 weeks before delivery of the product. You sent a final invoice for payment of the product. Only days later you had your credit card processor cancel your ability to receive payments, thus rendering my final payment plan useless. Additionally, 8-10 weeks have passed since you have requested this botched payment, and the product is still nowhere ready for delivery.

 This is clear violation of your terms by you.

 Refund of this transaction is demanded and I have already opened a court case with your local UK tribunal courts. This will effectively be your last opportunity to resolve this out of the courts and not have to pay for my court fees as well when I prove to them in many ways how you have in fact, violated your own terms and broken the law by refusing me my lawful refund.

 Remember my offer in e-mail to you still stands. You may transfer the return to me via bank transfer, Paypal, or Bitcoin.

Thanks and have a great day.
xx
 
 
Hello xx
 No terms and conditions of our product have been broken, our terms stated we have till end of q3 to deliver, july was an early expectation which we did not achieve but was in no way part of the terms and conditions.
 You will be refunded as per the terms and conditions you accepted when originally placing your order.
 If you have not paid the full balance for the product you are not eligible for a refund as per our terms as you are requesting the refund after a 5 month period of paying your deposit.
 If you have paid the full amount we will refund you the 30% deposit in full. This will be done via bank transfer as bitpay withdraws our funds instantly to our bank account. You will need to email us quoting this email to payments@alpha-t.net

 
 



Very poor argumentation of Alpha. oO

Thats their T&C from 5th of Jan:

"Shipping  Booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014. Live updates shall be provided on exact shipping date. Shipping is worldwide."
"Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date."
"The remaining payment to complete final assembly and shipment, will be required within 8-10 weeks of shipment date."

Update from 21st of June:

"We will also be releasing a full guide on how to use the miners both with the WebGUI and without it before shipment (which will begin somewhere from the 15th-31st of July)."

Its been clearly stated when the shipping will be conducted. On 22nd of May Alpha asked for final payment, 8-10 week period ended on 31st of July according to their T&C from 5th of Jan. Even Alpha has calculated with 8-10 weeks, its obvious.

And again: Nobody in the UK or elsewhere (expect Alpha) has mentioned, dat mining is business activity. Its only business activity, if you rent your device or sell CPU-time or provide similar services with your mining device.
But its NOT a business acitivity if you do some mining for private purposes. You neither sell goods nor provide services (which both would be business activity) when you do mining privately. At worst you pay only Capital Gains Tax, but this can also be done by an individual.

>We did not state specifically that we have to ship after 8-10 weeks, it was just a statement that we will be taking payments at this time, and we currently are.

"8-10 weeks" is NOT time. Its a time span, but not time. But you mentioned "time" because the formula "22nd of May+10 weeks = 31st of July" IS time. You have confirmed the 31st of July as shipping date, congratulations.

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August 07, 2014, 10:53:32 PM
 #2967

http://oi57.tinypic.com/10fchp4.jpg
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August 07, 2014, 11:40:07 PM
 #2968

My issue my local court won't accept that as valid service. I'm going by US rules, not UK but I will send it to the addresses you listed (except their accountancy firm).  I can't serve their legal team because they aren't agents for the purposes of service of process. I need to serve any employee or director of Alpha T.

Anyways, I'm still drafting the lawsuit, I'm just trying to push this through as soon as possible to get a judgment I can use in the UK to seize assets.

Thanks for the info again!
I see your problem. You could  use a courier or a process server.  I found a couple on google:

http://www.daviscoleman.com/
http://www.processserving.co.uk/index.html
http://www.process-serving.co.uk/
http://ash-process-servers.co.uk/

I should also correct my mistake the accountancy firm is:

64 Dickenson Road
Manchester
England
M14 5HF

Next door to Alpha T. This is the family accountancy firm run by the father Muhammad Akram and the brother Mohammad Jafar Akram, both formally directors in the company.
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August 08, 2014, 01:25:51 AM
 #2969

My issue my local court won't accept that as valid service. I'm going by US rules, not UK but I will send it to the addresses you listed (except their accountancy firm).  I can't serve their legal team because they aren't agents for the purposes of service of process. I need to serve any employee or director of Alpha T.

Anyways, I'm still drafting the lawsuit, I'm just trying to push this through as soon as possible to get a judgment I can use in the UK to seize assets.

Thanks for the info again!
I see your problem. You could  use a courier or a process server.  I found a couple on google:

http://www.daviscoleman.com/
http://www.processserving.co.uk/index.html
http://www.process-serving.co.uk/
http://ash-process-servers.co.uk/

I should also correct my mistake the accountancy firm is:

64 Dickenson Road
Manchester
England
M14 5HF

Next door to Alpha T. This is the family accountancy firm run by the father Muhammad Akram and the brother Mohammad Jafar Akram, both formally directors in the company.

Thanks again!  I owe you some rounds of beer if you're ever in Chicago.  Is the residential address that you listed for Mubasher or another Alpha employee?
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August 08, 2014, 03:59:01 AM
 #2970

lmfao...did anybody receive the "development update".  You know at this point I just have to laugh.  Here's a quick summary in case you've missed it:

"As I mentioned in previous updates we are comitted to 100% transparency.  As such, here are some pictures of the case we've standardized upon for our vapor boards.  Vapor chips still on schedule for 2nd of Nebruary release!"

[pics of a REALLY REALLY nice looking empty case with a couple of rockin FANS!]

I wonder just how much longer they plan on trying to maintain this illusion of actually doing something.

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ETC: 0x4360038b0f4b198b18458a1f0e468b3ebe483ee6
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August 08, 2014, 04:18:04 AM
 #2971

Hmm, couple of immediate observations.

1/ TEN PCI-E power connections?! Shocked

2/ didn't they in the previous update once again change their mind and say the PSU would in fact come with the miner be internal to allow rack mounting (as they tout in the update)? That case in the pictures requires external PSUs purely from the placement of the of the PCI-E power connectors.

3/ Holy airflow restriction batman! With the front and back with those tiny holes that thing is going to overheat in a second!

4/ They say they are redesigning the PCBs again to move from 36 ASICs to 12 per board, going to be a lot of boards in that case, and I guess that means all the pretty CAD lego drawings of PCBs they provided in the previous update are now completely worthless (like everything else that comes from this company).
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August 08, 2014, 04:21:32 AM
Last edit: August 08, 2014, 04:32:15 AM by zinner27
 #2972

"After further consideration we may break the Scrypt boards into multiple smaller boards because of the size of the current boards and thermal reasons; this is being evaluated right now. In all likelihood each Scrypt board will have 12 chips instead of 36 chips as planned earlier."

Ehmm... So at 250 MH/s  with 1,4 Mh/ chip they will need 15 boards....will they fit?
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August 08, 2014, 04:34:09 AM
 #2973

It sounds to me like the chip has been entirely re-designed and sent to fab. That's the only thing I can think of for them to drop off 2/3rds of their original quantity of chips per board, and maintain the same (or better) hashrate. Which would mean.. total crash and burn first time around.

Well, at least they have a case and some progress in that department, and it looks stamped so at least it appears they were working on that for more than a few days. Regarding the PSU, originally it was to be inside the units, then they were going to put it outside, then they removed it from the plan altogether and were going to have customers provide their own, and now they said they would include them, but it appears they'll be external.

This brings up a teachable moment for Alpha and others. Without folks who've been here from day 1, and others who have been aggregating this info, nobody would have a timeline today of the progress. You know, that basic feature of project management and transparency where you lay out your goals and plans and let folks know if you've made them or not? Instead of just providing nebulous updates of "soon, things happen."

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August 08, 2014, 07:00:16 AM
 #2974

I called Discover and said I wanted to dispute a charge, gave the date of the order and the merchant name, explained it was an order for a computer that was supposed to ship some months after I ordered it but never arrived and that I had tried to contact the merchant to request a refund but had been denied. That was it, I wasn't too specific about the date it was supposed to arrive. They did ask why I waited so long to dispute it, and I explained it was an order for an item that hadn't been released yet, but that the date of it's release had come and gone with no product arriving. They didn't need any additonial info.

This triggered a dispute in PayPal almost immediately with the description "Item never arrived", in the details it said "We're reviewing this chargeback and we'll contact you if we need more information. You don't need to do anything further at this time". Opened it on June 30th, didn't hear anything from Discover or PayPal, case closed in my favor July 16th.

I did exactley the same with Mastercard yesterday. Waiting for them to get back to me. Will be keeping you guys informed...

OK, Just got my Reply from mastercard. Since it´s been more than 120 day´s, they can´t do anything about it. They suggested to open a Claim with Paypal.

my amex card was way more then 120 days and they jumped right on the fraud/dispute stuff...mainly for non-delivery and also imho because I paid 30% down
on a paypal product and the association of my amex cc protection and then alpha said I had to pay the remaining 70% via no paypal or cc and via unsecured
method...that again imho p/o amex big time...still can't find out what they did/said to alpha to get my refund (may not have done anything and alpha missed
the 2nd deadline at 30 days rather then the first deadline at 45 days (on this bill they sent on 44th day)
..which they responded to with a bill looking like the 30% was a full payment...thus I lost
dispute #1 ..made another with the above info won that dispute)..so heck call someone else up try to make another dispute..see how it goes with a different
angle

I'd really push it and see how mastercard treats fraud..yell for some higher ups in the food chain there but the regular reps...if they somehow let you get a hold of fraud
dept just offer to make a dispute to give them info...even if they won't take your claim..you may get lucky if they see the merchant TOS with them has
been violated....etc

but again point out that others (me) an amex customer it was like more then 5 months and that amex found fraud on the part of the merchant in that alpha allowed
me to pay 30% down with cc option and promise of remaining payment the same way
but then will not refund you unless you send them unsecured funds for the missed date vaporware equipment and
you feel it is extortion..they get the last 70% via there way or the highway or you take a 30% loss
..again ..amex got on this because it was in i think amex view a front end vaporware scam that they looked by association to be
a part of the fraud....freaked them out a little in case other folks used this method of looking legit with paypal and amex then bolting for the hills

if YOU HAVE to as a last resort go thru paypal..1) say you want to report fraud..detail it all out to the rep alpha's tale of woe and games they play
make them forward it to the fraud dept..if they agree...(they did with BFL but told me after 12 months past from my order to call them again...this
was at 7months or some such...went no place in my case)

2) the fraud dept will PHONE YOU UP or not..if yes you have a place to vent and perhaps get them to refund anyway....after you do that you can
do this next step but you have to (maybe?) go thru fraud dept first not sure...but anyway

IF THAT DON"T WORK...your last chance is to ask to contact someone on the PAYPAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE it may be hard to get an email and such
but place an emphasis that this is one going fraud with paypal and cc companies looking complicit in the front up $$$ protected then boom not protected
on last 70% etc.. you could get lucky or not...

SOME people back in nov/dec 2013 when BFL offered NO refunds or anytihing....got this done by going before the 9 individuals on this paypal executive
after it hit bitcontalk imho the comittee got overwhelmed..did not matter anyway with the mad rush
at that point BFL changed banks etc to block paypal from getting any more $$$ or so I was told by paypal back at the time I tried this nov/dec 2013..
ie I would have gotten $$ thru this paypal exec committee but no more funds BFL could access or so I was told (probably by accident she maybe
should not have told me) but paypal could get no more $$ out of BFL at that point in time (man was i pissed soooooo close missed it by a couple days)
there is an old bitcointalk on it someplace here I think..and the crushing disappointment when the tap went dry


(i did eventually get a refund by luck...probation hearings on BFL employees and the class action suit on a monarch upgrade ..but that was just dumb luck)

anyway find out if you have equiv executive committee type stuff with master card .they got to have a fraud dept ...work that angle I can't see
master card or paypal putting up with vaporware sales of 30% down and no secured method to pay the last 70% or you lose it all....I mean come on
alpha does not even post its phone number anymore! If not well you can vent and at least know you did the good fight (i gave up after dec 2013 on
bfl got a refund another way...but felt better I tried even when I was sure (and still am) that hell would freeze over before a BFL refund..needless to say
I now think of hell as a quite pretty winter wonderland as a result

good luck these are at least angles I've tried (did not work) but hey...wtf do you have to lose>?

Anyway all I have hope it helps .....

Searing


Try out www.synchro.net An 'Old School' BBS (Bulletin Board System) works on Win /10/8/7 and Linux!
Three-minute install. The last upgrade was Jan 1st, 2019. I think you will be impressed with this project!
Nullu
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August 08, 2014, 09:10:55 AM
 #2975

Well, I did point out they hadn't shown any hardware. They still haven't, but at least it looks more legit. I stress the word looks.

If you've got several million of customers' money, putting together an empty case with your logo on it is not expensive. Nor is glueing some PCI-E power boards to the back.

Where is the hardware? The chips? The boards?

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
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August 08, 2014, 09:16:05 AM
 #2976

I called Discover and said I wanted to dispute a charge, gave the date of the order and the merchant name, explained it was an order for a computer that was supposed to ship some months after I ordered it but never arrived and that I had tried to contact the merchant to request a refund but had been denied. That was it, I wasn't too specific about the date it was supposed to arrive. They did ask why I waited so long to dispute it, and I explained it was an order for an item that hadn't been released yet, but that the date of it's release had come and gone with no product arriving. They didn't need any additonial info.

This triggered a dispute in PayPal almost immediately with the description "Item never arrived", in the details it said "We're reviewing this chargeback and we'll contact you if we need more information. You don't need to do anything further at this time". Opened it on June 30th, didn't hear anything from Discover or PayPal, case closed in my favor July 16th.

I did exactley the same with Mastercard yesterday. Waiting for them to get back to me. Will be keeping you guys informed...

OK, Just got my Reply from mastercard. Since it´s been more than 120 day´s, they can´t do anything about it. They suggested to open a Claim with Paypal.

my amex card was way more then 120 days and they jumped right on the fraud/dispute stuff...mainly for non-delivery and also imho because I paid 30% down
on a paypal product and the association of my amex cc protection and then alpha said I had to pay the remaining 70% via no paypal or cc and via unsecured
method...that again imho p/o amex big time...still can't find out what they did/said to alpha to get my refund (may not have done anything and alpha missed
the 2nd deadline at 30 days rather then the first deadline at 45 days (on this bill they sent on 44th day)
..which they responded to with a bill looking like the 30% was a full payment...thus I lost
dispute #1 ..made another with the above info won that dispute)..so heck call someone else up try to make another dispute..see how it goes with a different
angle

I'd really push it and see how mastercard treats fraud..yell for some higher ups in the food chain there but the regular reps...if they somehow let you get a hold of fraud
dept just offer to make a dispute to give them info...even if they won't take your claim..you may get lucky if they see the merchant TOS with them has
been violated....etc

but again point out that others (me) an amex customer it was like more then 5 months and that amex found fraud on the part of the merchant in that alpha allowed
me to pay 30% down with cc option and promise of remaining payment the same way
but then will not refund you unless you send them unsecured funds for the missed date vaporware equipment and
you feel it is extortion..they get the last 70% via there way or the highway or you take a 30% loss
..again ..amex got on this because it was in i think amex view a front end vaporware scam that they looked by association to be
a part of the fraud....freaked them out a little in case other folks used this method of looking legit with paypal and amex then bolting for the hills

if YOU HAVE to as a last resort go thru paypal..1) say you want to report fraud..detail it all out to the rep alpha's tale of woe and games they play
make them forward it to the fraud dept..if they agree...(they did with BFL but told me after 12 months past from my order to call them again...this
was at 7months or some such...went no place in my case)

2) the fraud dept will PHONE YOU UP or not..if yes you have a place to vent and perhaps get them to refund anyway....after you do that you can
do this next step but you have to (maybe?) go thru fraud dept first not sure...but anyway

IF THAT DON"T WORK...your last chance is to ask to contact someone on the PAYPAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE it may be hard to get an email and such
but place an emphasis that this is one going fraud with paypal and cc companies looking complicit in the front up $$$ protected then boom not protected
on last 70% etc.. you could get lucky or not...

SOME people back in nov/dec 2013 when BFL offered NO refunds or anytihing....got this done by going before the 9 individuals on this paypal executive
after it hit bitcontalk imho the comittee got overwhelmed..did not matter anyway with the mad rush
at that point BFL changed banks etc to block paypal from getting any more $$$ or so I was told by paypal back at the time I tried this nov/dec 2013..
ie I would have gotten $$ thru this paypal exec committee but no more funds BFL could access or so I was told (probably by accident she maybe
should not have told me) but paypal could get no more $$ out of BFL at that point in time (man was i pissed soooooo close missed it by a couple days)
there is an old bitcointalk on it someplace here I think..and the crushing disappointment when the tap went dry


(i did eventually get a refund by luck...probation hearings on BFL employees and the class action suit on a monarch upgrade ..but that was just dumb luck)

anyway find out if you have equiv executive committee type stuff with master card .they got to have a fraud dept ...work that angle I can't see
master card or paypal putting up with vaporware sales of 30% down and no secured method to pay the last 70% or you lose it all....I mean come on
alpha does not even post its phone number anymore! If not well you can vent and at least know you did the good fight (i gave up after dec 2013 on
bfl got a refund another way...but felt better I tried even when I was sure (and still am) that hell would freeze over before a BFL refund..needless to say
I now think of hell as a quite pretty winter wonderland as a result

good luck these are at least angles I've tried (did not work) but hey...wtf do you have to lose>?

Anyway all I have hope it helps .....

Searing



Many thanks guys!

I wrote en email to them this morning, reffering to this :  ( thank´s eneloop )

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/TB_CB_Manual.pdf Page 34

and explained the Situation as dircribed above by you.

Let´s wait what happens... Wink

Anyway: Don´t risk more than you can afford to lose!


So I´m willing to give it another try, but i´m not willing to give the Alpha Idiots to much control over my life, just for some Money.
Money Comes and goes my dad used to say. Live and learn... Grin Grin Grin

 

 
  
 
Scrappy Do
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August 08, 2014, 09:33:53 AM
Last edit: August 08, 2014, 10:27:34 AM by Scrappy Do
 #2977

 Ok guys I need some help. I just got my papers back, and Alpha is defending the claim I had on them. They sent me the paperwork for small claims track. Is anyone at this stage? They used the same shitty ass copy and paste response as a defence in this claim. Also their response is different than the original tos. I need some help guys...

Here's a link, they are backwards the way they were sent, so start from the bottom. http://imgur.com/a/2IbnV
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August 08, 2014, 09:36:15 AM
 #2978

 We need a fully drawn out claim against them. Has anyone compiled this yet? With citations? I would gladly donate well for such a document.
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August 08, 2014, 09:39:07 AM
Last edit: August 08, 2014, 10:26:41 AM by Scrappy Do
 #2979

 Working on pictures of all the documents sent to me. I really need some help with this as I know damn well they will reject mediation, and if they do it would be impossible/unfeasible for me to fly to the uk for such a claim.

Edit here's a link, they are backwards the way they were sent, so start from the bottom. http://imgur.com/a/2IbnV
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August 08, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
Last edit: August 08, 2014, 10:10:38 AM by Xell
 #2980

Ok guys I need some help. I just got my papers back, and Alpha is defending the claim I had on them. They sent me the paperwork for small claims track. Is anyone at this stage? They used the same shitty ass copy and paste response as a defence in this claim. Also their response is different than the original tos. I need some help guys...

Scrappy Do: you basically have no choice but to attend the hearing. There is nothing you can do other than to be present on the day. You can't win in court without actually going to court....

The small claims track is such that it is necessarily informal, meaning that ultimately you have to convince the judge that your story is more credible than theirs (Alpha Tech's). You do not have to prove something beyond reasonable doubt, as in a criminal prosecution, so the general gist is that you want a refund & that you feel you are entitled to one by DSR, and that you are not intending to operate the hardware as a business venture. The key point is that you have to demonstrate that the DSR's apply to you, because that is basically what this hinges on. You have to be able to show the judge that you were not buying this piece of equipment from a money-making (business) perspective.

That, I think, could be tricky - although the onus will be on AT to demonstrate that the purpose of the machine is to make money, so presumably they will have to give the usual bitcoin lecture to the judge and convince him of the money-making argument.

It comes down to when you bought this hardware, what was your intention to use it for? A commercial venture? Is there any other explanation? If it was mining indeed, then I think you will struggle to claim that you were not acting in a business capacity at the time you paid for the item. The fact you claim to be a consumer needs to be backed up in some way, and that you would use the device solely to generate income will almost certainly be the defences argument. You need to convince the judge that isn't the case. Because there is no proper registration procedure to act in a business capacity as a sole trader in the UK, you may find it hard to refute the fact that this was bought for any purpose other than mining and income generation. You could alternatively claim you didn't understand the agreement you were entering into, perhaps.

Compare this with buying a piece of specialist equipment used for physical gold mining (unless it was a spade, which is probably similar to a GPU in that it could be claimed to be used as a consumer product). Could you claim to be a consumer? Only if you could somehow argue that it was not a commercial venture, and planned to get gold from your garden to wear personally (and not sell) - which doesn't apply to bitcoins.

In case you accept that you are acting in a business capacity (in your own name, Joe Bloggs, ie as a sole trader), then your argument will be completely different - it will be that the terms of the original contract have been breached and so you are entitled to a refund. Alternatively you can challenge the exclusion clauses in the original contract (which, coincidently, have at least in-part existed from day one - so AT may cite this as evidence the implication was B2B and you should have read the terms more carefully), this is different and you need to challenge the terms under the Unfair Contract Terms Act, saying the terms were unreasonable. Your argument would centre (probably) on the following two points:
1. The contract was standard form and not individually negotiated between you and AT.
2. You didn't have the bargaining power to negotiate better terms.

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