Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[SimonBeCoinin]

somewhat of a legal question here, and I know you guys arent lawyers but its something that i think needs brought up. For the people still waiting to hear about the shares deal, what happens if they somehow do pull off a miracle and ship devices before the end of September, but prior to offering you shares or doing anything to move that forward?

If they ship them and you accept it prior to getting shares, is that technically the conculsion of the original contract you signed (which included nothing about share offerings)? Couldnt they then just not offer shares and claim the original contractual obligations were met? I understand that offering shares in a company is something that takes months worth of time, but their lack of transparency in this endevour makes me think they are just trying to bide their time. They could at least be releasing a road map, timeline, companies they are working with for audits, etc.

I'm not holding out for the shares, but i know there are people who are and this could be another way alpha sticks it to their customers.

well, that's unclear.

As you indicate, I'm not a lawyer, but I think it can be seen both ways.  two lawyers on opposite sides of the table could argue either side, I think.

they have made the promise to offer shares, so could someone push it?  I suppose.

How much would it cost to litigate that and is it worth it?  what will the shares be worth?  next to nothing is my guess, although I don't know and we won't until, and if, Alpha puts out the value of the company.  normally this would be SOP when issuing a prospectus, but I personally think Mubasher is a moron that is too clever by half and simply doesn't realize he's not as smart or clever as he thinks he is, so he will try to get by without offering solid information and leave himself enough wiggle room to screw people even if they do receive stock. 

I also think this is unlikely to even get that far.  I wouldn't assume it will be case and therefore base a decision on what may be if some best case scenario unfolds and this miraculously works out.  Base your decision on the facts you have now. 

What we do know is that this team looks shaky.  Inside people have been jumping off the ship instead of onto it.  If they thought the company was worth staying with, I think they'd have stayed with it.  They had much more to gain than any of us and bailed while distancing themselves as much as possible. 

Ask yourself if you would buy shares in this company, as that's the real question to ask.  I know I wouldn't on a dare.

IMO, they're outgunned in their market talent-wise, their launch is in the toilet, their miners are losers before they ship, their name is trashed in the marketplace, GAW and KNC have left them in the dust. the bleeding will continue with respect to refunds to people via credit cards or the court system and the legal bills will start to pile up with no new source of revenue to offset any of it.  So, I think they're dead already, but maybe just don't know it.

They're accountants, and I'd love to see the cash flow statement right now, accounting for some of this and projecting out 6 months or so.  it's gotten pretty quiet over there and I have no doubt they've run their scenarios and I doubt it's looking particularly good.  From a valuation perspective I think their value as a business is likely falling like a rock as we speak.

people are better off, IMO, in pulling out all the stops to get their money back now.  that fight looks easier to me than litigating stock options, even if you have to take it to the court system to get your refund.

so, if there are people holding out for shares, they might want to rethink that.   Just my opinion, of course.

[gushes]

somewhat of a legal question here, and I know you guys arent lawyers but its something that i think needs brought up. For the people still waiting to hear about the shares deal, what happens if they somehow do pull off a miracle and ship devices before the end of September, but prior to offering you shares or doing anything to move that forward?

If they ship them and you accept it prior to getting shares, is that technically the conculsion of the original contract you signed (which included nothing about share offerings)? Couldnt they then just not offer shares and claim the original contractual obligations were met? I understand that offering shares in a company is something that takes months worth of time, but their lack of transparency in this endevour makes me think they are just trying to bide their time. They could at least be releasing a road map, timeline, companies they are working with for audits, etc.

I'm not holding out for the shares, but i know there are people who are and this could be another way alpha sticks it to their customers.

They can't legally offer shares to everyone that is in batch 1.  So don't even take that into consideration. 

[retro72]

somewhat of a legal question here, and I know you guys arent lawyers but its something that i think needs brought up. For the people still waiting to hear about the shares deal, what happens if they somehow do pull off a miracle and ship devices before the end of September, but prior to offering you shares or doing anything to move that forward?

If they ship them and you accept it prior to getting shares, is that technically the conculsion of the original contract you signed (which included nothing about share offerings)? Couldnt they then just not offer shares and claim the original contractual obligations were met? I understand that offering shares in a company is something that takes months worth of time, but their lack of transparency in this endevour makes me think they are just trying to bide their time. They could at least be releasing a road map, timeline, companies they are working with for audits, etc.

I'm not holding out for the shares, but i know there are people who are and this could be another way alpha sticks it to their customers.

You won't be getting shares. The fact they even offered them is illegal. If you offer shares to more than 100 people in the UK or 35 in the US it is considered a public offering. This a VERY highly regulated and costly undertaking and many hoops have to be jumped through, including opening up your books and disclosing proprietary information or you risk prison and a hefty fine. Yes some crowdfunded ventures get away with it but Alpha have made enough enemies to guarantee someone turns them in and they are offering to many countries each with different regulatory bodies and rules, this will take YEARS and very deep pockets, neither of which Alpha have.

My guess is you'll get a wishy washy offer of profit sharing. This will give you no control over the company, no way to audit them to see if they are being honest, no representation on the board and no way to sell or transfer your "shares" if you want to get out.

Frankly, I think whatever they offer you will be worthless. I doubt they will sell any more batch 1 miners. They are severely underpowered and overpriced compared to the competition. Batch 2 was supposed to be 650mh/s which is already outdated so good luck with that. If Alpha do manage to get gear out the door in September it will be rushed and poorly put together so expect that to tank the last dregs of their reputation.

My guess is you batch one customers are funding an ASIC farm for Alpha. Whatever they don't sell they will keep, dissolve the company and start mining. You probably won't see a penny of whatever scheme they are offering you. Once you get your rickety underpowered miner Alpha will have concluded their business with you "according to their Terms and Conditions" and they will disappear.

[pw4x3r]

As stated, what they are attempting to do is insanity. It is not illegal to tell people your plan. They have announced their plan to offer shares. That is all. They have not offered shares.

Correct, they will not be able to do this as there is a plethora of reasons why they cannot.

Why they offered this? They are ignorant children under the age of 27 trying to run a business who have heard various solutions that various companies have had in the past to deal with various problems and they shouted this out to everyone real fast.
They have not done ANY research at all into this matter, clearly.
The other possibility is that they simply came up with a real scam and this is it.
The third option and the absolute least likely, is that they will actually go through all the work to make the company a legitimate publicly traded company. (RoFLMAO HAHAHA WTF LOL)

As far as your contract and order goes you can view it this way
They have not violated their contract yet by trying to add things to it (shares)
If you paid in full (and my god I am so sorry for you if you did) after they announced the share plan, then you are entitled to a full refund when you are not given shares in the company by the time batch 1 ships.
If you paid in full BEFORE they announced the plan for shares, then you are out of luck all together.

Again, not a lawyer here, just the most logical person I know.

[Meanotor]

It seems more of you guys are getting full whack back from Amex and i only got back 50% - 70 GBP.

I closed the door on myself to ask Amex for the remaining 50% or I can say, which is true, that I got from THEM ama i could to make it easier on Amex/alleviate the load?

[kebabman]

It seems more of you guys are getting full whack back from Amex and i only got back 50% - 70 GBP.

I closed the door on myself to ask Amex for the remaining 50% or I can say, which is true, that I got from THEM ama i could to make it easier on Amex/alleviate the load?

I would call Amex and explain the situation, tell them you took the 50% - £70 because that's all they would give you and it lowered the risk on you (and Amex) but you would like to file a chargeback for the remainder as their refund policy is illegal.

[bumface]

we are sorry we did not deliver the hopium in time, but we are working on a plan to offer shares in an ever stronger hopium.

rest assured and trust in us.

[zurg]

we are sorry we did not deliver the hopium in time, but we are working on a plan to offer shares in an ever stronger hopium.

rest assured and trust in us.

Now I know that your statement is not from Alpha... there is no "that's a fact" in it.

Meanwhile 1/13th of my 50KH Hashlet is paid for with just under 5 days of mining.

[zinner27]

"This is in response to the debt recovery letter sent to us dated 10 August
2014.

As per our terms and conditions our product is still in development and is
scheduled to be delivered by Q3 (End of September) as stated here in our
terms and conditions https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/.

We provide regular developmental updates and the customer is aware of this.
If the customer requires a refund we refund them as per our cancellation
policy which is also stated in our terms and conditions.
Where they are required to email us and we instantly go through the relevant
process of providing them with a refund.

We take a fee of the customer as they are requesting a refund before product
has been completed and it puts us at a loss if we are half way developing a
customers product, which is scheduled to be delivered by Q3 (end of
September).

The customer is not eligible for a full refund or chargeback as per our
terms and conditions as the product has not hit it's shipping time yet and
scheduled shipping is still some time off where we are still in the
developmental stage.

This is what the customer was aware of before accepting our terms and
conditions by placing an order.

The distant selling regulation does not apply to our product or company, as
the products we are selling are purely for the purpose of 'mining'
cryptocurrencies, which is a business activity. Mining cryptocurrencies is a
business activity as it is a process of making money (income) and HMRC also
taxes it , please view the following link:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm.

This is NOT a consumer product, but a product with the sole purpose of
generating an income via cryptocurrency mining as shown in the brief given
by HMRC which taxes all earnings on mining.

It is the customers duty to register itself as a business if they are to
mine cryptocurrencies, as they will be taxed on such earnings."

This is their standard answer to everybody, at least they answered on my debt collector mails...

And they lie about the refund, I have been asking for one got nada...

[pw4x3r]

"This is in response to the debt recovery letter sent to us dated 10 August
2014.

As per our terms and conditions our product is still in development and is
scheduled to be delivered by Q3 (End of September) as stated here in our
terms and conditions https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/.

We provide regular developmental updates and the customer is aware of this.
If the customer requires a refund we refund them as per our cancellation
policy which is also stated in our terms and conditions.
Where they are required to email us and we instantly go through the relevant
process of providing them with a refund.

We take a fee of the customer as they are requesting a refund before product
has been completed and it puts us at a loss if we are half way developing a
customers product, which is scheduled to be delivered by Q3 (end of
September).

The customer is not eligible for a full refund or chargeback as per our
terms and conditions as the product has not hit it's shipping time yet and
scheduled shipping is still some time off where we are still in the
developmental stage.

This is what the customer was aware of before accepting our terms and
conditions by placing an order.

The distant selling regulation does not apply to our product or company, as
the products we are selling are purely for the purpose of 'mining'
cryptocurrencies, which is a business activity. Mining cryptocurrencies is a
business activity as it is a process of making money (income) and HMRC also
taxes it , please view the following link:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm.

This is NOT a consumer product, but a product with the sole purpose of
generating an income via cryptocurrency mining as shown in the brief given
by HMRC which taxes all earnings on mining.

It is the customers duty to register itself as a business if they are to
mine cryptocurrencies, as they will be taxed on such earnings."

This is their standard answer to everybody, at least they answered on my debt collector mails...

And they lie about the refund, I have been asking for one got nada...

Yeah... decent try with the debt collectors but Alpha will never acknowledge a debt in your favor and those attempts are virtually useless as they have no credit that can go bad (other than their customers' which is already in the negative). You need to sue them.

[minerman147]

I personály think These idiot´s will never ever deliver anything!

[bumface]

[vesperwillow]

"This is in response to the debt recovery letter sent to us dated 10 August
2014.
....snip...

That entire response is mostly a lie based on illegal stuff. Until they can actually be taken into court and establish (in the legal system's eyes) that they have done wrong, they'll keep getting away with lying to companies about this.

[Test User]

I wish people with court cases pending luck.

I'm just wondering how easy it will be to enforce payment, if you guys win in court. If they fail to pay, you can reapply to court to get a bailiff's warrant to seize goods, but even then, if the bailiffs can't find any goods to seize, you aren't going to get your money.

One possibility to consider is making a petition for involuntary bankruptcy against the company. There is a court fee of £750 (a group of credits can split the costs amongst themselves) and you will need to prove a debt exists (if you've already got a court judgement which is unpaid after 28 days, then this is good proof). If a bankruptcy order is given, the court will appoint a liquidator to seize the company's assets and bank accounts. Even if you don't get your money, because none is left, being a director of a bankrupt company brings personal penalties. One of which is a ban from working or seeking work as an accountant....

[retro72]

I wish people with court cases pending luck.

I'm just wondering how easy it will be to enforce payment, if you guys win in court. If they fail to pay, you can reapply to court to get a bailiff's warrant to seize goods, but even then, if the bailiffs can't find any goods to seize, you aren't going to get your money.

One possibility to consider is making a petition for involuntary bankruptcy against the company. There is a court fee of £750 (a group of credits can split the costs amongst themselves) and you will need to prove a debt exists (if you've already got a court judgement which is unpaid after 28 days, then this is good proof). If a bankruptcy order is given, the court will appoint a liquidator to seize the company's assets and bank accounts. Even if you don't get your money, because none is left, being a director of a bankrupt company brings personal penalties. One of which is a ban from working or seeking work as an accountant....

You can apply for a "Third Party Debt Order" and have the court freeze their bank accounts. The money will be withdrawn from the account to cover the debt. Or you could apply for a "Charging Order" which will mean any assets they sell will go to pay off the debt. So when they sell an ASIC that money will go to you. Obviously they have to have money in the bank account, assets to sell and still be around for any of this to work.

[SimonBeCoinin]

I wish people with court cases pending luck.

I'm just wondering how easy it will be to enforce payment, if you guys win in court. If they fail to pay, you can reapply to court to get a bailiff's warrant to seize goods, but even then, if the bailiffs can't find any goods to seize, you aren't going to get your money.

One possibility to consider is making a petition for involuntary bankruptcy against the company. There is a court fee of £750 (a group of credits can split the costs amongst themselves) and you will need to prove a debt exists (if you've already got a court judgement which is unpaid after 28 days, then this is good proof). If a bankruptcy order is given, the court will appoint a liquidator to seize the company's assets and bank accounts. Even if you don't get your money, because none is left, being a director of a bankrupt company brings personal penalties. One of which is a ban from working or seeking work as an accountant....

You can apply for a "Third Party Debt Order" and have the court freeze their bank accounts. The money will be withdrawn from the account to cover the debt. Or you could apply for a "Charging Order" which will mean any assets they sell will go to pay off the debt. So when they sell an ASIC that money will go to you. Obviously they have to have money in the bank account, assets to sell and still be around for any of this to work.

yep or file on Mubasher personally to help him find his checkbook.

[Test User]

You can apply for a "Third Party Debt Order" and have the court freeze their bank accounts. The money will be withdrawn from the account to cover the debt. Or you could apply for a "Charging Order" which will mean any assets they sell will go to pay off the debt. So when they sell an ASIC that money will go to you. Obviously they have to have money in the bank account, assets to sell and still be around for any of this to work.

A charging order can only be applied to land or property (i.e. real estate), or in exceptional cases, certain types of shares. The bigger problem in this case is that any claim is against alpha T, and not the directors personally. In other words, a charging order can't be used against the director's personal homes, only the alpha's business premises (assuming it is owned by alpha, and not leased or rented).

[Nullu]

Well, the next promised shipping date is just around the corner. If they delay this one, then I think we all know the writing is on the wall. Complete vapourware. At least you'll be able to use their latest promised shipping date against them I suppose.

[cerberre]

Guys, I have some good news. I ordered a chargeback with American express on the preorder amount and I won. I am currently proceeding with a money claim to recoup the rest of the money I paid for the order. I really advise everyone to do it, we will have a lot more weight if a lot of people do claims.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

They missed their target shipping date of the 31st of July by far. We have clearly a case to get our money back.

In my case, they even cancelled my order against my will.

[SimonBeCoinin]

Guys, I have some good news. I ordered a chargeback with American express on the preorder amount and I won. I am currently proceeding with a money claim to recoup the rest of the money I paid for the order. I really advise everyone to do it, we will have a lot more weight if a lot of people do claims.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

They missed their target shipping date of the 31st of July by far. We have clearly a case to get our money back.

In my case, they even cancelled my order against my will.

Cool.  It's good to see some people taking action and getting their money back.