-- The Riddle of the Twin Brothers - Who Were, Are and Will Rule the World!

[Vlad2Vlad]

 ...those numbers are tiny compared to the money in US (and European) pension funds (401K, IRA, etc.).  

 Without a doubt my numbers represent but a fraction of the total wealth available for conversion to btc but it does illustrate just how high the price could go and how it could affect wealth brackets.

If:
 115,000,000 Families * $3800 = $437,000,000,000
 $437,000,000,000 / 2,500,000 BTC = $174,800
And if the average person were to wait until conversion was mandatory:
 $3,800 / $174,800 = 0.0217391304347826 BTC
 $10,000 / $174,800 = 0.05720823798627 BTC
 $100,000 / $174,800 = 0.5720823798627002 BTC
 $1,000,000 / $174,800 = 5.720823798627002 BTC

Everyone who currently owns 0.1 btc and $0 would be about 4 times more wealthy (as measured in btc) than the average family with $3800 in the bank but 0 btc. By forcing everyone to convert from fiat to btc and use it as "legal tender for all debts public and private" the vast majority of people would be living in btc poverty as compared to an early adopter sitting on 0.1 btc. The psychological impact would be enormous. If one were to factor in all the money that could conceivably be converted to btc the results would be much more extreme.

By "inflating" the price of btc relative to fiat and then forcing everyone to convert to btc the vast majority of people would find themselves bitcoin paupers. Not a single USD would have to be stolen, appropriated, or  confiscated.  

 

Yes, exactly what I think is happening.  They really don't have a choice.  They've spent and borrowed to no end.  

There is no easy way out:  Someone has to pay and pay dearly.  This is, ironically, Hope and Change, Massive change, but not the Change people expected.  Haha!

78 million boomers are retiring and they killed 50 million of the future work force [just in the US], which could have paid the necessary taxes to support them.

It's either a scheme like this, bankruptcy or to literally euthanize 78 million retirees (in the US alone).  

I think the final solution will be a combination of all 3.  ObamaCare would make it easy to not approve many life saving procedures for the elderly.  They'll kill millions of people via sheer neglect and lies.

Kind of ironic given it was this boomer generation who voted for the killing of the helpless unborn on the premise that they were not considered "human" [because they had nothing to offer society and could not survive on their own, exactly like the sick and elderly] and therefore had no rights.

I can't wait for next year.  Everything will be full bore by next year:  Media, World Governments, Banks, Corporations, Hedge Funds, Wall Street and the Global masses:  All aiming and pushing for the same one thing:  Bitcoin [and by Extension, alt-coins].

Nothing like what's coming next year has ever existed!  $10,000 Bitcoin price could turn out to be a ridiculously low estimate.

[Vlad2Vlad]

The Bitcoin Tsunami Effect [Phenomenon]:



As Bitcoin is moving up, alt-coins are crashing, collectively [with few pump and dump exceptions] and in a big way.  This phenomenon had me confused last year but now I get it.

It's like a Tsunami Effect. I watched it last time right before Bitcoin blew up, 99% of alt-coins were getting killed, down over 90%; and people were freaking out about it.

Now it's happening again and it's because everyone is feeling that Bitcoin is ready to move so they dump their alt-coins to buy Bitcoin.  How is this different than any other time over the last 5 months?  This time, just like last November, it's a collective effort.  Everyone is feeling it which is probably the biggest indicator that this upward move in Bitcoin is the real deal, it will continue and we will get the huge summer JAM I've been predicting.

Then as Bitcoin blows up, all those oversold alt-coins will explode to the upside.

Very interesting phenomenon.

FYI:  I have been buying some oversold alts for this reason, to flip when the boom does happen.

[Hilux74]

Good to see you have also noticed that trend from last year. 

So many think their favourite altcoin will simply go up hand in hand with Bitcoin.  This did not happen at all last year.  Most alts dropped MASSIVELY against BTC and then had that huge dramatic, but also brief, rise (ie the wave in your Tsunami metaphor).  I also think the same pattern will repeat, we are already seeing many alts dropping to BTC this week. 

Last year most of the altcoin experienced that rise, however I think this year some will rise on the wave while many will just get washed away... 

[hdbuck]

question is, which one will rise and shine like a phoenix?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Good to see you have also noticed that trend from last year.  

So many think their favourite altcoin will simply go up hand in hand with Bitcoin.  This did not happen at all last year.  Most alts dropped MASSIVELY against BTC and then had that huge dramatic, but also brief, rise (ie the wave in your Tsunami metaphor).  I also think the same pattern will repeat, we are already seeing many alts dropping to BTC this week.  

Last year most of the altcoin experienced that rise, however I think this year some will rise on the wave while many will just get washed away...  

I was tempted to think the latter as well, simply cause last year we had a few dozen coins while now we're at nearly 500.  But that's not the case.

The reason is that this time there will easily be a 10-fold influx of new investors and more like 100 times the influx of new money , compared to last year's mickey jump [compared to what's coming this year and especially next year] as many hedge funds and professional investors have been buying and will buy more.

So all these hundreds of ShitCoins, most of them should see a huge spike and a few should see at least 100 fold growth in price while a select 1 or 2 should see a 1,000 fold increase.  That sounds impossible but with so many decent coins sitting at 1/10th of 1 penny (and cheaper) a coin would only need to hit $1 for a 100,000% ROI.

Like CASHcoin, that coin trades at 1200 Satoshi now with literally only 3.4 million coins out there.  Such a coin could see demand outstrip supply in a massive way and it could see, not $1, but $10+.  And there are now quite a few ridiculously prices coins, well under 1/10th of 1 penny with decent developers, limited number of coins outstanding and in good niche markets (like CasinoCoin).

So diversify, and don't sell for a paltry triple like most people did last year as i was screaming at them:  DONT SELL!!!  haha!  Sell only chunks of say 25% at a time and leave the final 25% there just in case you own the next Bitcoin or if that coin just keeps going and going and going...

Good luck!


Disclosure:  I have been recently buying oversold coins like CASH, Casino [of course iXcoin] and a number of other coins for a quick profit in the next crypto boom, on the basis that these coins are far below their relative fair market value [compared to other pumped coins with nothing new or tangible to offer].

[Vlad2Vlad]

question is, which one will rise and shine like a phoenix?

Impossible to say.  Last year, on a % basis, I would say Quark did the best.  Quark was and is a dog [with premined fleas].  A hugely premined dog.  But Max Keiser had a nice chunk of Quark so he mentioned it on his show and it blasted off.  Nobody could have seen that.

So that's why I say diversify and keep your eyes open, if any coin gets on some popular tv program then I would definitely start buying that.

Right now just focus on the really oversold coins with decent devs, not too many coins outstanding (with a couple exceptions like DEV and DOGE) and a good Coin Name, as many new investors will know little about the tech or even investing so they'll simply buy a coin whose name and logo they like. 

Some coins I've been accumulating on this ridiculous sell-off:  DevCoin, CasinoCoin, NetCoin, WorldCoin, GrandCoin, CASHcoin, Doge, and a few others.

Do your research and don't hesitate to buy if it looks and feels right.  And don't be that guy that thinks a triple is a lot of money. I'm certain some of these coins will do 20 fold and some will blow past 100 fold returns!

[publicjud]

question is, which one will rise and shine like a phoenix?

Impossible to say.  Last year, on a % basis, I would say Quark did the best.  Quark was and is a dog [with premined fleas].  A hugely premined dog.  But Max Keiser had a nice chunk of Quark so he mentioned it on his show and it blasted off.  Nobody could have seen that.

So that's why I say diversify and keep your eyes open, if any coin gets on some popular tv program then I would definitely start buying that.

Right now just focus on the really oversold coins with decent devs, not too many coins outstanding (with a couple exceptions like DEV and DOGE) and a good Coin Name, as many new investors will know little about the tech or even investing so they'll simply buy a coin whose name and logo they like. 

Some coins I've been accumulating on this ridiculous sell-off:  DevCoin, CasinoCoin, NetCoin, WorldCoin, GrandCoin, CASHcoin, Doge, and a few others.

Do your research and don't hesitate to buy if it looks and feels right.  And don't be that guy that thinks a triple is a lot of money. I'm certain some of these coins will do 20 fold and some will blow past 100 fold returns!

How come you don't invest in any PoS coins?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Hedge Fund states Bitcoin to surpass PayPal in dollar value transactions.

What does this mean?

It means we can properly evaluate Bitcoin's fair market value.

Skipping the present value cash-flow formula (since Bitcoin doesn't yet have such cash-flows) we can simply look and see that PayPal is currently valued at $20 Billion.

$20 billion divided by Bitcoin's ~13 million coins gives us a price of ~$1600.

But paypal is in a mature slow growth phase while bitcoin is in hypergrowth phase.

What this means, is that later this year, Bitcoin should at the very least, see a $2,000 price and may briefly touch closer to $4,000, before selling off back to around $1500.

Next year, well, next year, with the public ETFs, there's simply no way to know how high Bitcoin will go by it's going to be more than all the past booms combined and then some.

[Vlad2Vlad]

For short term trades, I don't look if a coin is PoS or PoW, I just look at the things I feel newbie investors will look at when they come in [by the millions].  Things like name, [cheap] price, logo design, maybe active devs and a good reputation and other simple things like that.

So if the coins I'm buying (for a flip) aren't PoS then it's just a coincidence.

Longer term, there's no way I'd ever buy and hold any coin which is not PoW AND a coin secured with massive hash power, like iXcoin.  The reason is that's the single best way to secure a coin for mass, Global adoption.

PoS security is POS...pun intended, and without an ultra secure network your coin is DOA, good only for short term trading.

[publicjud]

For short term trades, I don't look if a coin is PoS or PoW, I just look at the things I feel newbie investors will look at when they come in [by the millions].  Things like name, [cheap] price, logo design, maybe active devs and a good reputation and other simple things like that.

So if the coins I'm buying (for a flip) aren't PoS then it's just a coincidence.

Longer term, there's no way I'd ever buy and hold any coin which is not PoW AND a coin secured with massive hash power, like iXcoin.  The reason is that's the single best way to secure a coin for mass, Global adoption.

PoS security is POS...pun intended, and without an ultra secure network your coin is DOA, good only for short term trading.

So far PoS coins have certainly proven to be secure.  A PoW coins is basically an arms race, to consume the most amount of energy.  Do you have any idea how much energy is consumed in PoW?  The amount of leading zeros on a transaction hash (network difficulty) serves no tangible purpose.

[Vlad2Vlad]

For short term trades, I don't look if a coin is PoS or PoW, I just look at the things I feel newbie investors will look at when they come in [by the millions].  Things like name, [cheap] price, logo design, maybe active devs and a good reputation and other simple things like that.

So if the coins I'm buying (for a flip) aren't PoS then it's just a coincidence.

Longer term, there's no way I'd ever buy and hold any coin which is not PoW AND a coin secured with massive hash power, like iXcoin.  The reason is that's the single best way to secure a coin for mass, Global adoption.

PoS security is POS...pun intended, and without an ultra secure network your coin is DOA, good only for short term trading.

So far PoS coins have certainly proven to be secure.  A PoW coins is basically an arms race, to consume the most amount of energy.

There are good technical papers written on this and PoW is easily the most secure choice.

We're talking about global transactions here with anyone trying to crash your network.  That's where PoW gets the job done and everything else is simply another gimmick.

[publicjud]

For short term trades, I don't look if a coin is PoS or PoW, I just look at the things I feel newbie investors will look at when they come in [by the millions].  Things like name, [cheap] price, logo design, maybe active devs and a good reputation and other simple things like that.

So if the coins I'm buying (for a flip) aren't PoS then it's just a coincidence.

Longer term, there's no way I'd ever buy and hold any coin which is not PoW AND a coin secured with massive hash power, like iXcoin.  The reason is that's the single best way to secure a coin for mass, Global adoption.

PoS security is POS...pun intended, and without an ultra secure network your coin is DOA, good only for short term trading.

So far PoS coins have certainly proven to be secure.  A PoW coins is basically an arms race, to consume the most amount of energy.

There are good technical papers written on this and PoW is easily the most secure choice.

We're talking about global transactions here with anyone trying to crash your network.  That's where PoW gets the job done and everything else is simply another gimmick.

Call it what you may, but my money lies on a PoS coin taking over BTC and any PoW coin within 2 years.  It is not just the fact that a PoW waste millions in electricity a year, but certainly faster transaction times and other features coming out of PoS coins are far superior if they stand the test of time.

[Vlad2Vlad]

For short term trades, I don't look if a coin is PoS or PoW, I just look at the things I feel newbie investors will look at when they come in [by the millions].  Things like name, [cheap] price, logo design, maybe active devs and a good reputation and other simple things like that.

So if the coins I'm buying (for a flip) aren't PoS then it's just a coincidence.

Longer term, there's no way I'd ever buy and hold any coin which is not PoW AND a coin secured with massive hash power, like iXcoin.  The reason is that's the single best way to secure a coin for mass, Global adoption.

PoS security is POS...pun intended, and without an ultra secure network your coin is DOA, good only for short term trading.

So far PoS coins have certainly proven to be secure.  A PoW coins is basically an arms race, to consume the most amount of energy.

There are good technical papers written on this and PoW is easily the most secure choice.

We're talking about global transactions here with anyone trying to crash your network.  That's where PoW gets the job done and everything else is simply another gimmick.

Call it what you may, but my money lies on a PoS coin taking over BTC and any PoW coin within 2 years.  It is not just the fact that a PoW waste millions in electricity a year, but certainly faster transaction times and other features coming out of PoS coins are far superior if they stand the test of time.

Read Satoshi's papers:  Bitcoin [ixcoin, etc.] will have instant transaction times.  This faster block time is a gimmick which leads to an unstable coin.

I'm no techie at all and I saw through this faster coin nonsense last year.  And if the people want PoS, do you think it would take more than about 5 seconds for Bitcoin or iXcoin to add some of that inflation to their coin?

So how then will a PoS coin kill Bitcoin?  It's absurd.  No Scrypt coin or X11, or any of that other joke new algos will ever beat Bitcoin in affordable speed and security.

I'm shocked that it's been so long and all these "expert" devs still can't figure out that Sha256 is the future.  

It's a good thing, it keeps millions of competing miners away from the real coins which will be the future.  I actually think LTC and all its clones were done intentionally to mislead, confuse and keep the masses chasing hopeless turds while the real coins were being mined and hoarded by those who understand what's going on.

So unless you can find a coin which had a lot more than PoS as its [copy and paste] competitive advantage then I'm sorry to say, you have not found the next Bitcoin.

And don't worry, Bitcoin will not have 21 million coins forever.  That's another lie to bring in the sheep.  There's gonna be massive inflation of whichever coin wins, AFTER the sheep are brought in, past the point of no return.  


Bait - Switch - Dilute.

It's gonna be a rerun of that old classic from 1935.

[publicjud]

Read Satoshi's papers:  Bitcoin [ixcoin, etc.] will have instant transaction times.  This faster block time is a gimmick which leads to an unstable coin.

You say it makes an unstable coin, but yet there are several well developed PoS coins that have yet to have a security breach.  Keep in mind, PoS is still several years younger than BTC.  Overall, I am in a couple PoW coins, incase I am wrong, but I still lean toward PoS winning out.  It makes more sense any way you look at it.  Having a ton of leading zeros in front of a transaction hash serves no purpose at all.

[voluntarist500]

Read Satoshi's papers:  Bitcoin [ixcoin, etc.] will have instant transaction times.  This faster block time is a gimmick which leads to an unstable coin.

I'm no techie at all and I saw through this faster coin nonsense last year.  And if the people want PoS, do you think it would take more than about 5 seconds for Bitcoin or iXcoin to add some of that inflation to their coin?

So how then will a PoS coin kill Bitcoin?  It's absurd.  No Scrypt coin or X11, or any of that other joke new algos will ever beat Bitcoin in affordable speed and security.

I'm shocked that it's been so long and all these "expert" devs still can't figure out that Sha256 is the future.  

It's a good thing, it keeps millions of competing miners away from the real coins which will be the future.  I actually think LTC and all its clones were done intentionally to mislead, confuse and keep the masses chasing hopeless turds while the real coins were being mined and hoarded by those who understand what's going on.

So unless you can find a coin which had a lot more than PoS as its [copy and paste] competitive advantage then I'm sorry to say, you have not found the next Bitcoin.

And don't worry, Bitcoin will not have 21 million coins forever.  That's another lie to bring in the sheep.  There's gonna be massive inflation of whichever coin wins, AFTER the sheep are brought in, past the point of no return.  


Bait - Switch - Dilute.

It's gonna be a rerun of that old classic from 1935.

agree on that one. That's why i feel very happy to hold that bag of unobtanium (UNO) indefinately (besides some ixc and iocoin i also have of course to diversify investements). Uno could also be merge mined with btc - it only needs to be implemented but that is not unlikely to happen i think. Just a heads-up for the pow and sha256-lovers 

[schnötzel]

Hurry up!

Nothing new (at least for us), but still unbelievable how it´s become true.....

Some day´s ago i ve read this:

"Anybody who thinks Bitcoin makes it easier to do transactions that aren't tracked by the government is 100 percent wrong. The transactions all happen in public view. Anybody can look at the entire ledger and verify who owns what. So if you're a law enforcement agency or an intelligence agency, this is a much easier way to track the flow of money than cash. So I think actually law enforcement and intelligence agencies are going to wind up being pro-Bitcoin, and libertarians are going to wind up being anti-Bitcoin."
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/05/21/marc-andreessen-in-20-years-well-talk-about-bitcoin-like-we-talk-about-the-internet-today/)

and today:

Former US Mint Chief: Bitcoin a Serious Challenge to Government Money

http://www.coindesk.com/former-us-mint-chief-bitcoin-government-money/



As you (Vlad) said before: Governments and banks LOVE Bitcoin

Good luck everybody

[threedream]

No plans to buy Ruibo  Riddle  ?

[markm]

Read Satoshi's papers:  Bitcoin [ixcoin, etc.] will have instant transaction times.  This faster block time is a gimmick which leads to an unstable coin.

You say it makes an unstable coin, but yet there are several well developed PoS coins that have yet to have a security breach.  Keep in mind, PoS is still several years younger than BTC.  Overall, I am in a couple PoW coins, incase I am wrong, but I still lean toward PoS winning out.  It makes more sense any way you look at it.  Having a ton of leading zeros in front of a transaction hash serves no purpose at all.

Just because worthless crap hasn' yet been stolen doesn't at all mean that the worthless crap is secure, it just means it is not worth stealing.

As long as PoS coins remain pathetically worthless who cares, they aren't important, why even bother attacking them.

The point is they cannot be used safely for real serious money. Sure if you just want pennies fine use sugar cubes or lumps of mud or whatever, its not important. But for serious stuff you need serious stuff. PoS is not serious. Especially PPCoin which is basically just another Solidcoin type con job, that is, centralised, vulnerable to one guy who can trash it at will.

-MarkM-

[schnötzel]

Bitcoin POS?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581635.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.0;all

[publicjud]

Read Satoshi's papers:  Bitcoin [ixcoin, etc.] will have instant transaction times.  This faster block time is a gimmick which leads to an unstable coin.

You say it makes an unstable coin, but yet there are several well developed PoS coins that have yet to have a security breach.  Keep in mind, PoS is still several years younger than BTC.  Overall, I am in a couple PoW coins, incase I am wrong, but I still lean toward PoS winning out.  It makes more sense any way you look at it.  Having a ton of leading zeros in front of a transaction hash serves no purpose at all.

Just because worthless crap hasn' yet been stolen doesn't at all mean that the worthless crap is secure, it just means it is not worth stealing.

As long as PoS coins remain pathetically worthless who cares, they aren't important, why even bother attacking them.

The point is they cannot be used safely for real serious money. Sure if you just want pennies fine use sugar cubes or lumps of mud or whatever, its not important. But for serious stuff you need serious stuff. PoS is not serious. Especially PPCoin which is basically just another Solidcoin type con job, that is, centralised, vulnerable to one guy who can trash it at will.

-MarkM-

To say that PoS coins are pathetically worthless, discredits your reputation.  Their are multiple PoS coins with very sizable market caps compared to their age.  And I have no idea how one guy could trash a CryptoCoin at will?  Even if there is only one dev per say, if that dev goes rogue, the community can easily go with another dev's code.  Please explain.

So far you haven't not shown that PoS is any less secure.  You pointed out PPCoin, but your issue seams to be with their 'foundation' set up, not the PoS technology.