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Author Topic: [ANN][Datacoin] Datacoin blockchain start announcement (Minor code upd + logo)  (Read 159370 times)
mstfck
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December 14, 2013, 12:21:19 AM
 #661


Got you point. Thank you for great analysis! I saw this idea several times past  last days, so I think that it really will help Datacoin. But please understand us: there is still much work around (at least pools and improved wallet, plus 'big file' functionality). As soon as we finish with it, it will be possible to implement something like you say. Datacoin will grow, it is attending developers, so many of community's wishes will be implemented. As I see, this 'issue' is #1 (except pools and wallets)
Thanks for the responce but that isn't very specific regarding the details, thats more of a press release type statement that companies give out when they have nothing better to say and can't afford to ignore one of the few people actually paying attention.
edited: but anyway - remember: it's possible to add illegal content even in Bitcoin blockchain.
Yes it is, but then again bitcoin wasn't founded on the idea of hosting data in the blockchain nor did it name itself after this idea. Hence I would hope that oh IDK something called Datacoin would have a better idea about how to handle data hosting than to simply say "well shit man, I guess the blockchain is as good as it gets". You know what isn't anonymous about datacoin, the fact that everyone who uses it is equally guilty through literal guilt by association you could be tried and arrested for supporting datacoin due to the way that it has structured itself which is why no pool is going to touch this potentially amazing coin due to a complete disconnect between the developer and the software he is playing with.
All in all, if you want to store data and download things anonymously go use perfect dark it is like datacoin but free and without a filesize cap.

No one is responsible for the data on the blockchain. No one actually stores a file, we store base64 encoded bits. So if the police really want to arrest every dtc user then they have to go through every file transaction on datacoin and guess filetype etc. And no one would upload something illegal video file or something like that, that would cost alot! So DTC blockchain is not a problem.

I was inactive on this forum and apparently someone got my credentials and used my account in scams.
I have changed the password and I am sorry for any scam that occured.
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December 14, 2013, 12:36:49 AM
 #662

No one is responsible for the data on the blockchain. No one actually stores a file, we store base64 encoded bits.
The issue remains that if you are knowingly aiding in the distribution and storage of illegal files and are doing so by choice then you are probably committing a crime*.
*(given correct jurisdiction)
So if the police really want to arrest every dtc user then they have to go through every file transaction on datacoin and guess filetype etc. And no one would upload something illegal video file or something like that, that would cost alot! So DTC blockchain is not a problem.
You act as if that would be hard? You can calculate if a file has data in it simply by estimating the coin return based off of difficulty then counting the number of transactions to see if they are within the min transaction fee limit or over, if over then you check the file. Wouldn't be hard to figure out much from raw data it is done all the time.
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December 14, 2013, 12:54:24 AM
 #663


This should be in a new thread
mstfck
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December 14, 2013, 01:07:24 AM
 #664

Why would someone waste alot of BTC for fun?
It costs alot to host these files.
And why will someone get arrested for someone others files?

I was inactive on this forum and apparently someone got my credentials and used my account in scams.
I have changed the password and I am sorry for any scam that occured.
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December 14, 2013, 01:19:21 AM
 #665

Why would someone waste alot of BTC for fun?
It costs alot to host these files.
And why will someone get arrested for someone others files?
Regardless of how you procure files the legality of them is dependent on the content not the content holder or means of procurement.
Which is why holding illegal files is like holding illegal drugs, it doesn't matter if you are holding them for a friend, they are still illegal and still in your possession.
Also why did you say waste a lot of BTC?
Furthermore that's the problem, it costs so much that the normal person won't have a reason to use this and if it was cheap then the blockchain would be bloated do you get the problem here? Or am I being too vague for you?
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December 14, 2013, 01:23:22 AM
 #666

And that's maybe the reason? Because it is low risk, maybe some feature about size will get implemented in the future to be sure.

I was inactive on this forum and apparently someone got my credentials and used my account in scams.
I have changed the password and I am sorry for any scam that occured.
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December 14, 2013, 01:40:13 AM
 #667

And that's maybe the reason? Because it is low risk, maybe some feature about size will get implemented in the future to be sure.
Ok so let me be clear about this, first off the current state of the coin is absolutely useless to anyone who wants to anonymously store data for use in any reasonable fashion. As I said there are already much better WORKING alternatives that don't require stupid workarounds and procedures due to the fact that the developer actually gave a damn about the end user. Storage should be decentralized which is not the same thing as giving everyone ALL the files because nobody will be able to use this in the future if the filesize is so high. The idea of paying for data is cool but the implementation is a waste, essentially you have this as a problem. You are using a deflatory currency to run a data hosting service, which is supposed to increase in usage over time. Now in the future when mining it will be very hard to get datacoins except for if you mined them early on and thus if the system for paying for hosting is exorbitantly expensive and relatively limited then why even try, I mean what if datacoins go up to being $5 a coin? Are you gonna pay $250 to store a megabyte? No because that's stupid. Furthermore as time goes on the only people who will be able to store data will be large miners who can get their money back for free by mining the next block that they put in thus making the datastorage almost free for large pools/miners, in fact you could essentially get together as a group and just agree to always keep the mining fees for data purposes thus negating the data fee which further points out how flawed the system is. Why would I pay money to give everyone a few tiny files when I could just buy a vpn and a seedbox or use perfect dark or share or god forbid emule.
I really wish the developer would actually talk that way I could gauge just how aware of these problems he is.
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December 14, 2013, 02:03:25 AM
 #668

And that's maybe the reason? Because it is low risk, maybe some feature about size will get implemented in the future to be sure.
Ok so let me be clear about this, first off the current state of the coin is absolutely useless to anyone who wants to anonymously store data for use in any reasonable fashion. As I said there are already much better WORKING alternatives that don't require stupid workarounds and procedures due to the fact that the developer actually gave a damn about the end user. Storage should be decentralized which is not the same thing as giving everyone ALL the files because nobody will be able to use this in the future if the filesize is so high. The idea of paying for data is cool but the implementation is a waste, essentially you have this as a problem. You are using a deflatory currency to run a data hosting service, which is supposed to increase in usage over time. Now in the future when mining it will be very hard to get datacoins except for if you mined them early on and thus if the system for paying for hosting is exorbitantly expensive and relatively limited then why even try, I mean what if datacoins go up to being $5 a coin? Are you gonna pay $250 to store a megabyte? No because that's stupid. Furthermore as time goes on the only people who will be able to store data will be large miners who can get their money back for free by mining the next block that they put in thus making the datastorage almost free for large pools/miners, in fact you could essentially get together as a group and just agree to always keep the mining fees for data purposes thus negating the data fee which further points out how flawed the system is. Why would I pay money to give everyone a few tiny files when I could just buy a vpn and a seedbox or use perfect dark or share or god forbid emule.
I really wish the developer would actually talk that way I could gauge just how aware of these problems he is.

From what i understand the fee is not fixed and can change without a hard fork.

Now i get your point but i believe that datacoin is not only a place to anonymously store data but also distribute it super fast to many many people. Most times even if you store something somewhere those who dont want it can by force make it not accessible but when something will be on datacoin blockchain will automatically be on thousand computers without actually needing to find it and download it.

So thats how i get it. Its more about spreading the data faster...
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December 14, 2013, 02:26:18 AM
 #669

From what i understand the fee is not fixed and can change without a hard fork.

Now i get your point but i believe that datacoin is not only a place to anonymously store data but also distribute it super fast to many many people. Most times even if you store something somewhere those who dont want it can by force make it not accessible but when something will be on datacoin blockchain will automatically be on thousand computers without actually needing to find it and download it.

So thats how i get it. Its more about spreading the data faster...
Again look at perfect dark and share, it works like this.
There is Bob and he is running Share<--official website
Share constantly has me downloading and uploading pieces of encrypted files to people who I connect with and pass files onto and they do the same.
If I want to download a file I can go to one of several sites where people post the keys for files or use the in client search to query by keyword, tag or filename. I query my peers and they respond with the data they know by querying their peers and so on. Once someone finds a person with the file or people with parts of the file, the files are discretely routed towards me via direct connections and through my peers. And as data is dispersed through the network almost all files can be found eventually. In fact you are required to download a certain amount of data before you can even start choosing what you want to download. The more random data you host the higher priority you are, the same goes with uploading.
Lets say Bob wants to save a file on the Share network.
Bob wants to upload a file, so he opens Share and tells it to upload it.
The program goes and encrypts the file and splits it into chunks and then starts giving it out to whatever peers I am connected to in order to start spreading it. Now if anyone queries with a file regarding the one Bob put up peers will end up either having pieces of the files or using bob as a node to spread it to whoever is asking for it.
This is the OLD way of doing decentralized anonymous sharing. The Next Gen was Perfect Dark
There is Lisa and she is running Perfect Dark<- official site, use google trans as the dev was japanese
Perfect Dark starts by making Lisa pick a username, encrypting her IP and then add a lot of nodes then she can pick how much unity storage IE how much space she wants to dedicate to hosting random files.
The more storage the higher priority just like with Share. Perfect Dark does a better job because while it is running it downloads and uploads even more data and you can even set it to delete unity data after a period of time for it to be filled with different data. You are required to essentially maintain a connection with the perfect dark network and act as a node sending and receiving and rerouting data and you are compensated with the ability to search and query other users again for filenames, tags, or by upload ID. Uploading is the same as with Share, however in Perfect Dark if you can see a file then you can download it as it means that someone has part of it where as in Share it just means that someone knows of it, and more often than not in Perfect Dark you can get a complete download as you are broadcasting your need for parts that gets pasted onto other people so you can be helped much faster and get your file downloaded in a much more timely fashion. Share can take months on rare files, Perfect Dark only takes a few days on rare files if you can get the query. There is even a continually updating message scroll that anyone can put anything on as long as it is text and everyone running perfect dark will see it eventually. Perfect Dark furthermore has the ability to host entire websites and forums and such though I have never taken advantage of this. Perfect Dark is superior mainly due to its much better networking and p2p functionality compared to Share.
All in all these are both vastly superior to datacoin, are free, will never require 500GB of storage unless you want to have that much and are smarter and easier to use as a whole and don't run a stupid scheme with fees in order to compensate for a lack of understanding. So please, fix Datacoin. Stop being an altcoin and be something interesting.
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December 14, 2013, 05:55:17 AM
 #670

Why would someone waste alot of BTC for fun?
It costs alot to host these files.
And why will someone get arrested for someone others files?

I am not as concerned about people being arrested, but people are idiots. So I guarantee that someone will eventually upload something incredibly stupid and illegal.
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December 14, 2013, 09:16:05 AM
 #671


Thanks for the responce but that isn't very specific regarding the details, thats more of a press release type statement that companies give out when they have nothing better to say and can't afford to ignore one of the few people actually paying attention.


I cannot give you any details just now. Prior to give technical details the architecture should be made as concept, maybe some draft code changes, etc. But our team is not a company with 10 developers who work at many different tasks, Datacoin is still small, and all these things are need to be done.

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December 14, 2013, 04:10:17 PM
 #672

Can I get datacoin solo mining with an AMD Sempron LE-1250 2.20 GHz? Is there pool mining? Is the windows pre-compiled qt really that much worse for mining than the high powered source? Thanks! Datacoin sounds very interesting...
Just now there is no sense to mine with sempron. You can buy few DTC while they're cheap (1$ per dtc, and totally only 1.2 million DTC). Or you can setup a private pool with 'external miner' instructions
What about quad-core i3?
It's better, but the best will be to have several i3's mining and pointing to one wallet Wink
How would I set up the pool? I have the sempron and quad-core i3. How long for a block do you think?
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December 14, 2013, 04:12:26 PM
 #673

Can I get datacoin solo mining with an AMD Sempron LE-1250 2.20 GHz? Is there pool mining? Is the windows pre-compiled qt really that much worse for mining than the high powered source? Thanks! Datacoin sounds very interesting...
Just now there is no sense to mine with sempron. You can buy few DTC while they're cheap (1$ per dtc, and totally only 1.2 million DTC). Or you can setup a private pool with 'external miner' instructions
What about quad-core i3?
It's better, but the best will be to have several i3's mining and pointing to one wallet Wink
How would I set up the pool? I have the sempron and quad-core i3. How long for a block do you think?

You need to look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364205.msg3906618#msg3906618
and you can look the end of the thread for some stats

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December 14, 2013, 04:25:15 PM
 #674

Can I get datacoin solo mining with an AMD Sempron LE-1250 2.20 GHz? Is there pool mining? Is the windows pre-compiled qt really that much worse for mining than the high powered source? Thanks! Datacoin sounds very interesting...
Just now there is no sense to mine with sempron. You can buy few DTC while they're cheap (1$ per dtc, and totally only 1.2 million DTC). Or you can setup a private pool with 'external miner' instructions
What about quad-core i3?
It's better, but the best will be to have several i3's mining and pointing to one wallet Wink
How would I set up the pool? I have the sempron and quad-core i3. How long for a block do you think?

You need to look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364205.msg3906618#msg3906618
and you can look the end of the thread for some stats
I don't know what to put in the datacoin.conf
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December 14, 2013, 04:27:27 PM
 #675

I don't know what to put in the datacoin.conf

Please look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364205.msg3920079#msg3920079
also possible issues are described below this post.

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December 14, 2013, 10:36:22 PM
 #676

It seems to me that there's a very simple way of solving the potential upload of illegal files to the blockchain, and increase the value of the coin at the same time!

I'm not a dev, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that files are going to be stored in the coins themselves, so if that's the case, we just need to create some sort of report system that could be managed by the Datacoin Foundation, and anytime a illegal file is found, that can be reported and the coins are destroyed.

That would eliminate the nasty file and reduce the supply of coins at the same time. Users of the coin would have a strong reason to keep the blockchain clean.

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December 14, 2013, 10:46:48 PM
 #677

It seems to me that there's a very simple way of solving the potential upload of illegal files to the blockchain, and increase the value of the coin at the same time!

I'm not a dev, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that files are going to be stored in the coins themselves, so if that's the case, we just need to create some sort of report system that could be managed by the Datacoin Foundation, and anytime a illegal file is found, that can be reported and the coins are destroyed.

That would eliminate the nasty file and reduce the supply of coins at the same time. Users of the coin would have a strong reason to keep the blockchain clean.

coins can be destroyed, but transaction will not be deleted. Anyway, it breaks the whole concept of the coin - if one person (or group of persons) can control network in such a way, no one can guarantee that this power won't come to bad people.

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December 14, 2013, 11:01:06 PM
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@theprofileth:  You make some very valid points.  Datacoin aims to be a form of data infrastructure, so it must be compared to current services that are similar.  I expect Datacoin to be under continuous development, with a very large body of developers.  Many of these people will have to be drawn from the VPN and cloud storage sector, and they would be familiar with what they need to make a coin that would be useful for them.

Everbody wants something that is a combination of Napster and Bitcoin.  Datacoin is the first step, but it will be a long road before we get there.  Pruning and updating of old files are just the first issue that comes to mind.  Atomic downloads for payments to specific addresses is another.  A lot of great work has been done (including on the blockexplorer) but we need some sort of roadmap to see where we are going.

I don't think the blockchain is the best place to store files. The wallets themselves would be better, with the blockchain used for indexing and collating.  Grondilu made such a suggestion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1545.0).  By increasing the precision of the coin to many hundreds of digits, data could be stored in the least significant bits of the balances in the wallets.  A message or data file would be represented by a (small) DTC amount and there would be a natural cost associated with it.  

There is a lot of goodwill associated with this coin but if it is not useful to the actual users it will quickly be forked.  We must listen very carefully to critics because these could be the people who would help Datacoin the most.  I rank Datacoin as equal in importance to Bitcoin and Namecoin, and they are both highly reactive to the communities they serve.

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December 15, 2013, 12:34:33 AM
 #679

It seems to me that there's a very simple way of solving the potential upload of illegal files to the blockchain, and increase the value of the coin at the same time!

I'm not a dev, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that files are going to be stored in the coins themselves, so if that's the case, we just need to create some sort of report system that could be managed by the Datacoin Foundation, and anytime a illegal file is found, that can be reported and the coins are destroyed.

That would eliminate the nasty file and reduce the supply of coins at the same time. Users of the coin would have a strong reason to keep the blockchain clean.

coins can be destroyed, but transaction will not be deleted. Anyway, it breaks the whole concept of the coin - if one person (or group of persons) can control network in such a way, no one can guarantee that this power won't come to bad people.

Ok. That makes a lot of good sense. So the next questions is... — Is there a way to implement a self-censoring feature that is decentralised?

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December 15, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
 #680

It seems to me that there's a very simple way of solving the potential upload of illegal files to the blockchain, and increase the value of the coin at the same time!

I'm not a dev, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that files are going to be stored in the coins themselves, so if that's the case, we just need to create some sort of report system that could be managed by the Datacoin Foundation, and anytime a illegal file is found, that can be reported and the coins are destroyed.

That would eliminate the nasty file and reduce the supply of coins at the same time. Users of the coin would have a strong reason to keep the blockchain clean.

coins can be destroyed, but transaction will not be deleted. Anyway, it breaks the whole concept of the coin - if one person (or group of persons) can control network in such a way, no one can guarantee that this power won't come to bad people.

Ok. That makes a lot of good sense. So the next questions is... — Is there a way to implement a self-censoring feature that is decentralised?

there is a way to build a filter into walets and online wallets that will not allow to access illegal content (data reported by other users), but anyway these files will exist in the blockchain.

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