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Author Topic: [ANN][Datacoin] Datacoin blockchain start announcement (Minor code upd + logo)  (Read 159120 times)
cryptrol
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January 08, 2014, 11:08:16 PM
 #941

This solution would never bloat the blockchain, and nobody would host illegal files in their computers. An ELEGANT solution, if I may! Smiley
This just makes no sense.
Data is data, data can be anything, data can be illegal, data can even BECOME illegal after years.
Datacoin is a blockchain, you can't change the blockchain after a block is inserted without changing the whole chain, period.
You can't enforce the data type to store in the blockchain, there could be a consensus like in the envelope protocol but that is just a
consensus, not a mandatory rule.
I would ask the people that is so worried about illegal content to go ask a lawyer instead of posting their worries here, or at least before posting.

Pleas read the reddit thread some posts above this for some nice arguments about posting illegal content to a blockchain (any blockchain).

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January 08, 2014, 11:15:29 PM
 #942

People should understand that as long as there is a blockchain there can be stored illegal stuff there forever. And the point of a blockchain is this "forever". This is the same for Datacoin, Namecoin, Bitcoin etc...

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January 09, 2014, 01:07:11 AM
 #943

Good news everybody! I am putting this here cause it will get buried because of the shitty coins anouncements! I am very glad to see it!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=405992.msg4399003;topicseen#msg4399003


And oocook5u whenever you can please try to read this whole thread and answer to questions. I know you already have answered to some but yeah. For example what about the fees people are asking?
cryptrol
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January 09, 2014, 08:29:22 AM
 #944

Good news everybody! I am putting this here cause it will get buried because of the shitty coins anouncements! I am very glad to see it!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=405992.msg4399003;topicseen#msg4399003


And oocook5u whenever you can please try to read this whole thread and answer to questions. I know you already have answered to some but yeah. For example what about the fees people are asking?

Thanks for the head up GreekBitcoin, I also mentioned the fees on the other post.
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January 09, 2014, 11:23:39 AM
 #945

I would ask the people that is so worried about illegal content to go ask a lawyer instead of posting their worries here, or at least before posting.

You sound like you do not appreciate the fact that people are posting their worries here. If you ask me, THAT makes no sense!

This is an open forum created to discuss crypto-currencies and it seems like that's exactly what we are doing here. This thread is design to receive commentary from all sorts of people, some are going to be good, and some are going to bring attention to all sorts of problems. The very success of DTC depends on people doing that.

How can one fix a problem, if one does not know the problem exists?

If DTC has no real issue with hosting illegal content, why so many people seem to avoid discussing this topic? If DTC has no problem with illegal files, why you suggest I should not post my worries here, and instead get in touch with a laywer? THAT makes no sense whatsoever!

Am I the only one talking about that issue? You only need to read the thread to see how many people mentioned the illegal files issue. The truth is that as long as people like you keep treating these worries as a minor inconvenience, you will keep pushing people away from DTC.

If my suggestion sound non-sensical to you, then something else must be done to bring those people like me to your side. If one can convince me that the illegal issue is not really an issue, I will promptly invest and promote the coin. Until now, none of the arguments were strong enough to accomplish that.

Perhaps, what this community really needs is a group of lawyers to come here, and add their own two cents on the topic. Do you know any that would do that?

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January 09, 2014, 11:30:05 AM
 #946

People should understand that as long as there is a blockchain there can be stored illegal stuff there forever. And the point of a blockchain is this "forever". This is the same for Datacoin, Namecoin, Bitcoin etc...



That makes a lot of sense GreekBitcoin, but keep in mind that DTC is the only coin that focus on the blockchain storage potential.

Nobody looks at Bitcoin, Namecoin and think of it as a place to storage files, so nobody gets worried with illegal content.

DTC needs to deal with this fact because storage is the essential part of how people perceive the coin.

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January 09, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
 #947

I would ask the people that is so worried about illegal content to go ask a lawyer instead of posting their worries here, or at least before posting.

You sound like you do not appreciate the fact that people are posting their worries here. If you ask me, THAT makes no sense!

This is an open forum created to discuss crypto-currencies and it seems like that's exactly what we are doing here. This thread is design to receive commentary from all sorts of people, some are going to be good, and some are going to bring attention to all sorts of problems. The very success of DTC depends on people doing that.

How can one fix a problem, if one does not know the problem exists?

If DTC has no real issue with hosting illegal content, why so many people seem to avoid discussing this topic? If DTC has no problem with illegal files, why you suggest I should not post my worries here, and instead get in touch with a laywer? THAT makes no sense whatsoever!

Am I the only one talking about that issue? You only need to read the thread to see how many people mentioned the illegal files issue. The truth is that as long as people like you keep treating these worries as a minor inconvenience, you will keep pushing people away from DTC.

If my suggestion sound non-sensical to you, then something else must be done to bring those people like me to your side. If one can convince me that the illegal issue is not really an issue, I will promptly invest and promote the coin. Until now, none of the arguments were strong enough to accomplish that.

Perhaps, what this community really needs is a group of lawyers to come here, and add their own two cents on the topic. Do you know any that would do that?

See this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Datacoin/comments/1tvwhu/if_i_run_a_datacoin_node_and_somebody_uploads/cecdi4e

Now the point is that you cant have a decentralized storage system and someone to also police it. it cant happen. Simple as that. And if Datacoin will ever be illegal because of illegal stuff on the blockchain the same can happen for bitcoin. Definition of what is illegal and what is not is very broad. If a country says that bitcoin is illegal will you still use it or not? There are prime numbers that are illegal. Why? If you want answers read the whole thread here and also on reddit. And indeed talking to a lawyer is the best thing you can do indeed. But i am not sure he will easily be able to answer too. It depends on many things and how aggressive a goverment wants to be...

Edit because of your post: But if you ask about legality it doesnt matter if noone is looking at bitcoin or not. You are asking if it is illegal or not. Or i could answer you that you will never probably get arrested for storing the blockchain where others put something illegal...if you know what i mean..

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January 09, 2014, 11:36:03 AM
 #948

DTC needs to deal with this fact because storage is the essential part of how people perceive the coin.

I'm sure that you know how do people perceive TOR network. 'You can find CP, weapons, drugs and other illegal things here!' But very many people use TOR every day not for CP or weapons, just to get some blocked information. Quote from comment mentioned by GreekBitcoin:
Quote
People do WAY more risky stuff every day for no gain such as running tor exit nodes.

DTC: DMcKNp47fNtgM7sritK9GfJEQ1DzME5nwk
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cryptrol
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January 09, 2014, 11:40:12 AM
 #949

You sound like you do not appreciate the fact that people are posting their worries here. If you ask me, THAT makes no sense!

I didn't meant to sound harsh, but this topic has appeared a thousand times in this thread and is something that simply can't be avoided, like it can't be avoided to find illegal content in the internet.

If my suggestion sound non-sensical to you, then something else must be done to bring those people like me to your side. If one can convince me that the illegal issue is not really an issue, I will promptly invest and promote the coin. Until now, none of the arguments were strong enough to accomplish that.

Every technology has the potential to do good or bad. This is no exception and the good things outweighs the bad things.


Perhaps, what this community really needs is a group of lawyers to come here, and add their own two cents on the topic. Do you know any that would do that?

I absolutely agree.

And BTW please read the reddit post linked by GreekBitcoin.
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January 09, 2014, 11:43:31 AM
 #950

...i could answer you that you will never probably get arrested for storing the blockchain where others put something illegal...if you know what i mean..

THAT is the EXACT kind of argumentation that non-tech investors want to see before thinking on investing large in DTC.

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January 09, 2014, 11:45:17 AM
 #951

But i wanted to ask something i am not i remember correctly. Maybe it is already posted somewhere in this thread.

I have the blockchain in my computer. Is it possible for me to delete part of it without a problem? Lets say i dont want the first test file already stored in the blockchain. Can i delete it somehow but continue having the rest of the blockchain without problem?
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January 09, 2014, 11:59:11 AM
 #952

But i wanted to ask something i am not i remember correctly. Maybe it is already posted somewhere in this thread.

I have the blockchain in my computer. Is it possible for me to delete part of it without a problem? Lets say i dont want the first test file already stored in the blockchain. Can i delete it somehow but continue having the rest of the blockchain without problem?
how can you 'delete' this file? Please read carefully first part of linked comment
http://www.reddit.com/r/Datacoin/comments/1tvwhu/if_i_run_a_datacoin_node_and_somebody_uploads/cecdi4e

steganography -
Quote
data is sandwiched inbetween a bunch of other blockchain data
. So I can give an example, let's say: your 'illegal picture' has first 3 bytes bytes (in ASCII form) aef . After encoding they turn into wn3. After incuding into blockchain, if you open it with hexeditor, you can see sdfg25sdwfge0021nsd23. How can you delete this data? How can you see it as illegal?

And I agree with cryptrol\rayvellest about lawyers, but I really have no idea when to find lawyers for such question.

DTC: DMcKNp47fNtgM7sritK9GfJEQ1DzME5nwk
BTC: 1FgUGra685ZwkrX5VnRvfaYp4bHJhC7x4H
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January 09, 2014, 12:10:19 PM
 #953

But lets say you know that wn3 from sdfg25sdwfge0021nsd23 is what you want deleted. Can you delete those 3 bytes without problem? Obviously i dont understand how blockchain work yet and thats why i am asking...
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January 09, 2014, 12:21:04 PM
 #954

But lets say you know that wn3 from sdfg25sdwfge0021nsd23 is what you want deleted. Can you delete those 3 bytes without problem? Obviously i dont understand how blockchain work yet and thats why i am asking...
AFAIK it is impossible in general - you need to find all these bytes, or at least some of them to corrupt file. I suggest that it will be rejected by all other network, and you'll need to re-sync your blockchain.

DTC: DMcKNp47fNtgM7sritK9GfJEQ1DzME5nwk
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rayvellest
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January 09, 2014, 12:22:31 PM
 #955

The community needs to adapt the argument to serve the non-tech investors and non-tech crypto enthusiasts more appropriately:

Please take a look at the following arguments:

1. Ah! The very concept of what is legal or illegal can change with time, we shouldn't bother with that anyway!
2. But if DTC stops the permanent uploading to the blockchain, then where will Assange upload the next lot of secret documents?
3. It doesn't matter if some people upload files to the blockchain, if you don't have access to it, why are you worrying?
4. The files are going to be stored via steganography, so the file only exists for one who holds the key to it.
5. Anyone who uploads illegal files and keep the access keys to it would be incredibly stupid.

All of these are NOT good enough. Why?

They demand some sort of faith in the system or believe in a specific paradigm. (1,2,3 and 5) ...or they demand some sort of specific technical knowledge. (4)

Arguments that require some sort of faith in the system, or believe in a paradigm, are entirely useless. Some people will adopt those arguments, but the majority will not, and if the success of DTC is intrinsically related to bringing the masses to the coin, one MUST conclude these are weak arguments that will not help in the long term.

Arguments that require some sort of technical knowledge are GOOD, but ONLY if people are able to understand them. For instance, the very use of the word steganography is going to make loads of people run away from the coin. The argument itself is good, but it needs to be simplified to reach the masses.

I've been working in the advertising industry for 10+ years, and these are techniques that marketers have been successfully using long before that.

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January 09, 2014, 12:28:38 PM
 #956

The community needs to adapt the argument to serve the non-tech investors and non-tech crypto enthusiasts more appropriately:

Please take a look at the following arguments:

1. Ah! The very concept of what is legal or illegal can change with time, we shouldn't bother with that anyway!
2. But if DTC stops the permanent uploading to the blockchain, then where will Assange upload the next lot of secret documents?
3. It doesn't matter if some people upload files to the blockchain, if you don't have access to it, why are you worrying?
4. The files are going to be stored via steganography, so the file only exists for one who holds the key to it.
5. Anyone who uploads illegal files and keep the access keys to it would be incredibly stupid.

All of these are NOT good enough. Why?

They demand some sort of faith in the system or believe in a specific paradigm. (1,2,3 and 5) ...or they demand some sort of specific technical knowledge. (4)

Arguments that require some sort of faith in the system, or believe in a paradigm, are entirely useless. Some people will adopt those arguments, but the majority will not, and if the success of DTC is intrinsically related to bringing the masses to the coin, one MUST conclude these are weak arguments that will not help in the long term.

Arguments that require some sort of technical knowledge are GOOD, but ONLY if people are able to understand them. For instance, the very use of the word steganography is going to make loads of people run away from the coin. The argument itself is good, but it needs to be simplified to reach the masses.

I've been working in the advertising industry for 10+ years, and these are techniques that marketers have been successfully using long before that.

I understand you very well. I hope that someone from DTC community can find these 'simple words' - just now I cannot.
But as it was said above, practically every useful discovery can be used in bad way.

btw one more "argument" : the same uploading can be done with Bitcoin

DTC: DMcKNp47fNtgM7sritK9GfJEQ1DzME5nwk
BTC: 1FgUGra685ZwkrX5VnRvfaYp4bHJhC7x4H
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January 09, 2014, 12:32:32 PM
 #957

The community needs to adapt the argument to serve the non-tech investors and non-tech crypto enthusiasts more appropriately:

Please take a look at the following arguments:

1. Ah! The very concept of what is legal or illegal can change with time, we shouldn't bother with that anyway!
2. But if DTC stops the permanent uploading to the blockchain, then where will Assange upload the next lot of secret documents?
3. It doesn't matter if some people upload files to the blockchain, if you don't have access to it, why are you worrying?
4. The files are going to be stored via steganography, so the file only exists for one who holds the key to it.
5. Anyone who uploads illegal files and keep the access keys to it would be incredibly stupid.

All of these are NOT good enough. Why?

They demand some sort of faith in the system or believe in a specific paradigm. (1,2,3 and 5) ...or they demand some sort of specific technical knowledge. (4)

Arguments that require some sort of faith in the system, or believe in a paradigm, are entirely useless. Some people will adopt those arguments, but the majority will not, and if the success of DTC is intrinsically related to bringing the masses to the coin, one MUST conclude these are weak arguments that will not help in the long term.

Arguments that require some sort of technical knowledge are GOOD, but ONLY if people are able to understand them. For instance, the very use of the word steganography is going to make loads of people run away from the coin. The argument itself is good, but it needs to be simplified to reach the masses.

I've been working in the advertising industry for 10+ years, and these are techniques that marketers have been successfully using long before that.

I like this thing but for sure needs some time. But yeah i am trying to understand as much as i can about Datacoin so that i can do this...
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January 09, 2014, 01:04:31 PM
 #958

The community needs to adapt the argument to serve the non-tech investors and non-tech crypto enthusiasts more appropriately:

Please take a look at the following arguments:

1. Ah! The very concept of what is legal or illegal can change with time, we shouldn't bother with that anyway!
2. But if DTC stops the permanent uploading to the blockchain, then where will Assange upload the next lot of secret documents?
3. It doesn't matter if some people upload files to the blockchain, if you don't have access to it, why are you worrying?
4. The files are going to be stored via steganography, so the file only exists for one who holds the key to it.
5. Anyone who uploads illegal files and keep the access keys to it would be incredibly stupid.

All of these are NOT good enough. Why?

They demand some sort of faith in the system or believe in a specific paradigm. (1,2,3 and 5) ...or they demand some sort of specific technical knowledge. (4)

Arguments that require some sort of faith in the system, or believe in a paradigm, are entirely useless. Some people will adopt those arguments, but the majority will not, and if the success of DTC is intrinsically related to bringing the masses to the coin, one MUST conclude these are weak arguments that will not help in the long term.

Arguments that require some sort of technical knowledge are GOOD, but ONLY if people are able to understand them. For instance, the very use of the word steganography is going to make loads of people run away from the coin. The argument itself is good, but it needs to be simplified to reach the masses.

I've been working in the advertising industry for 10+ years, and these are techniques that marketers have been successfully using long before that.

I understand you very well. I hope that someone from DTC community can find these 'simple words' - just now I cannot.
But as it was said above, practically every useful discovery can be used in bad way.

btw one more "argument" : the same uploading can be done with Bitcoin

I've just read on another thread started by oocook5u that DTC will innovate again by hosting web-applications. I'm not sure if I understood that clearly enough on a technical level, but that new way of using the storage characteristic seems even more exciting than just permanent storage.

Perhaps, DTC would be better served by dropping the "permanent storage" argument from its official communications, such as datacoin.info, twitter.com/datacoininfo, the announcement thread, and any other first point of contact with new users.

I think something on the lines of "data transactions" would sound a lot better as the PRIMARY argument for the coin. Actually, that is THE ESSENCE of DTC, and from a pure marketing point of view, even match with the acronym DTC. Smiley

So, if that change is made, anytime someone get to know DTC, they will know that is a coin that focus on the development of "data transactions".

Then, to complement that, a second page should be created on datacoin.info, entitled "types of data transactions", where DTC could list all POTENTIAL data transactions that MAY or MAY NOT be developed. On this page then, you could include things such as: permanent storage, self-hosted web applications, or anything else.

With that positioning, non-tech investors are going to see DTC as a coin with HUGE potential, many possibilities and alternatives. The coin will grown in value, the community will continue to grow, and then more crypto-enthusiasts are going to keep coming back to this and other threads to keep on suggesting more types of "data transactions".

That will help to build a strong participative community based on the POTENTIAL of the coin, and do not need to rely on one specific use of it.

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January 09, 2014, 04:45:06 PM
 #959

The community needs to adapt the argument to serve the non-tech investors and non-tech crypto enthusiasts more appropriately:

Please take a look at the following arguments:

1. Ah! The very concept of what is legal or illegal can change with time, we shouldn't bother with that anyway!
2. But if DTC stops the permanent uploading to the blockchain, then where will Assange upload the next lot of secret documents?
3. It doesn't matter if some people upload files to the blockchain, if you don't have access to it, why are you worrying?
4. The files are going to be stored via steganography, so the file only exists for one who holds the key to it.
5. Anyone who uploads illegal files and keep the access keys to it would be incredibly stupid.

All of these are NOT good enough. Why?

They demand some sort of faith in the system or believe in a specific paradigm. (1,2,3 and 5) ...or they demand some sort of specific technical knowledge. (4)

Arguments that require some sort of faith in the system, or believe in a paradigm, are entirely useless. Some people will adopt those arguments, but the majority will not, and if the success of DTC is intrinsically related to bringing the masses to the coin, one MUST conclude these are weak arguments that will not help in the long term.

Arguments that require some sort of technical knowledge are GOOD, but ONLY if people are able to understand them. For instance, the very use of the word steganography is going to make loads of people run away from the coin. The argument itself is good, but it needs to be simplified to reach the masses.

I've been working in the advertising industry for 10+ years, and these are techniques that marketers have been successfully using long before that.

I understand you very well. I hope that someone from DTC community can find these 'simple words' - just now I cannot.
But as it was said above, practically every useful discovery can be used in bad way.

btw one more "argument" : the same uploading can be done with Bitcoin

I've just read on another thread started by oocook5u that DTC will innovate again by hosting web-applications. I'm not sure if I understood that clearly enough on a technical level, but that new way of using the storage characteristic seems even more exciting than just permanent storage.

Perhaps, DTC would be better served by dropping the "permanent storage" argument from its official communications, such as datacoin.info, twitter.com/datacoininfo, the announcement thread, and any other first point of contact with new users.

I think something on the lines of "data transactions" would sound a lot better as the PRIMARY argument for the coin. Actually, that is THE ESSENCE of DTC, and from a pure marketing point of view, even match with the acronym DTC. Smiley

So, if that change is made, anytime someone get to know DTC, they will know that is a coin that focus on the development of "data transactions".

Then, to complement that, a second page should be created on datacoin.info, entitled "types of data transactions", where DTC could list all POTENTIAL data transactions that MAY or MAY NOT be developed. On this page then, you could include things such as: permanent storage, self-hosted web applications, or anything else.

With that positioning, non-tech investors are going to see DTC as a coin with HUGE potential, many possibilities and alternatives. The coin will grown in value, the community will continue to grow, and then more crypto-enthusiasts are going to keep coming back to this and other threads to keep on suggesting more types of "data transactions".

That will help to build a strong participative community based on the POTENTIAL of the coin, and do not need to rely on one specific use of it.

thanks for this thought! I need to spread these words in our team, and these changes in sense of marketing sound good to me. I'll work with website in that direction today/tommorrow.

DTC: DMcKNp47fNtgM7sritK9GfJEQ1DzME5nwk
BTC: 1FgUGra685ZwkrX5VnRvfaYp4bHJhC7x4H
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January 09, 2014, 06:49:56 PM
 #960

http://www.reddit.com/r/Datacoin/comments/1ut0xu/compiled_successfully_but_tries_to_redownload/

Someone is having problems with ubuntu. If anyone can help...
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