NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[dzarmush]

Where is the source code?

Will be made available in a few weeks.

With all respect "in a few weeks" is unacceptable. You shouldn't have made it available if you weren't ready to release the source code. You should also be explicitely stating that its closed source.

I'll do it for you.

The Offspring Nxt client is CLOSED SOURCE. Use at your own risk!

Considering that most people store their money on Dgex or Bter it's not a big deal.

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[opticalcarrier]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/the-mathematically-secure-way-to-accept-zero-confirmation-transactions/

Can someone more technically adept than I am (that would be any of you guys) comment on this, please? The claim about zero confirmations seems to imply that short times between blocks is far less important than network hashing power regarding prevention of double spending. Is his analysis correct? And are there implications for NXT?

From what I read it is basically using statistics to estimate the chance of a double spend happening. As more and more nodes see it, it becomes less likely for any chain to override this. I did not see any mathematical proofs about the accuracy of this method, especially how it would fare under a selfish mining attack. For example, a selfish mining group could have many blocks prepared ahead of time and even though it would be statistically unlikely, it could happen.

Since the article is talking about a statistical method, odds are good that it works, just not 100% guaranteed. Probably fine for small transactions, but if you are dealing with big amounts, just be patient.

As for how it affects NXT, I dont see much here to worry about. firstgen cryptos are still limited in the number of transactions, nothing close to 1000TPS would be in the cards for bitcoin anytime soon

James

yeah, there were any proofs at all; it seems that there is some kind of "rule of thumb" they have discovered.  They seem to confuse the selfish miner 25%/33% issue with doublespending; Im pretty sure they are complete separate issues.  Someone please correct me if im wrong.  Selfish mining, or a pool finding a block but not advertising it to the blockchain while it works on the next block (all other miners have no idea they should be working on the next block, so the selfish miner has the advantage; obviously the risk is that someone else publishes your block while you are headstarting) in advance, doesnt really apple to NXT's POS method.

Apparently they just have some rule of thumb for probability of doublespending.  If this is the case it WILL be exploited.

[Eadeqa]

If someone wants to write up an overview of what exactly we need for the crypto auditing, I can send it to a few Crypto experts I've been in contact with.  Just PM me.

Please, CfB, help with that.

Edit: what kind of 'experts'?

I've been in contact with several people, including Matt Green (zerocoin).  I was originally referred to Matt by Susan Waters (http://cs.jhu.edu/~susan/) who was his professor, and Susan also recommended Lisa Yin in the same email.  I've had contact with Lisa and she sounds open to an audit.  Lisa has a PHD from MIT in Crypto.  I have contact with a few other academics as well.

Right, Lisa. I remember (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4989534#msg4989534). Well, what do you think, CfB?

Any update on this?

[jl777]

<gateway stuff>

Nice work on getting us all started on this.  Keep in mind that for some assets such as BTC you could just imply a certain number of decimal points for more resolution.  Its times like this I wish I had gone the CS route in stead of the easier IT route in university - Im no coder.  Oh well, wish I could help out more.

But yes, the trust thing will be difficult.  Possibly some aspect of account control will assist here, whenever it comes out, since it looks like we will see account control instead of regular multisig.

One of the critical parts of the gateway is the trusted server  and that's your area isn't it?

How much would it cost to run a hardened gateway server?
Also, is there a way to set it up so that the keys used for the deposit wallet are only accessible to the gateway program itself? Here I go with the crazy stuff, but I cant help it, I spend all day researching about zeroknowledge this, magical algorithm that. It just gets to the point if I assume that anything can be done, usually somebody says, I read about something like that here <magic URL>

So, let us ignore how we initialize this server as that is most tricky.

I am imagining that there is a way to get a runtime signature of the gateway software code. This will be independently scanned and validated before any wallet access by a separate process. Maybe its as simple as a signed .jar file. We need a secure way to access the wallet for all the different cryptos. We want to make sure only the approved gateway code is able to do this.

I need somebody who knows about multisig, crypto in general, magic, to help figure out how the runtime can be secured. Even if somebody gets access to the server, I want the most damage they could do to be to blow up the server. this is a pain, but with all the pending transactions store in AM in the NXT blockchain, after a delay, everything should be back to normal

I am pretty sure somebody supertrusted needs to set things up, eg. making sure the code is compiled from the approved source and creating all the different keys and putting the backup in a physically secure place to be accessed only in emergency.

Not sure at all the right process, just throwing out something as a starting point for someone who knows how to properly setup a secure server and a bit of crypto magic

[jl777]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/the-mathematically-secure-way-to-accept-zero-confirmation-transactions/

Can someone more technically adept than I am (that would be any of you guys) comment on this, please? The claim about zero confirmations seems to imply that short times between blocks is far less important than network hashing power regarding prevention of double spending. Is his analysis correct? And are there implications for NXT?

From what I read it is basically using statistics to estimate the chance of a double spend happening. As more and more nodes see it, it becomes less likely for any chain to override this. I did not see any mathematical proofs about the accuracy of this method, especially how it would fare under a selfish mining attack. For example, a selfish mining group could have many blocks prepared ahead of time and even though it would be statistically unlikely, it could happen.

Since the article is talking about a statistical method, odds are good that it works, just not 100% guaranteed. Probably fine for small transactions, but if you are dealing with big amounts, just be patient.

As for how it affects NXT, I dont see much here to worry about. firstgen cryptos are still limited in the number of transactions, nothing close to 1000TPS would be in the cards for bitcoin anytime soon

James

yeah, there were any proofs at all; it seems that there is some kind of "rule of thumb" they have discovered.  They seem to confuse the selfish miner 25%/33% issue with doublespending; Im pretty sure they are complete separate issues.  Someone please correct me if im wrong.  Selfish mining, or a pool finding a block but not advertising it to the blockchain while it works on the next block (all other miners have no idea they should be working on the next block, so the selfish miner has the advantage; obviously the risk is that someone else publishes your block while you are headstarting) in advance, doesnt really apple to NXT's POS method.

Apparently they just have some rule of thumb for probability of doublespending.  If this is the case it WILL be exploited.

It appears to be statistically based. I would imagine any selfish mining exploits would be able to create some extremely unlikely events since they are storing precalculated blocks. Maybe Evil bob is promoting this method?

[brooklynbtc]

Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated about the fee-system of Nxt, when I see these kind of blocks passing by:


Fee = 0,0016%


Fee = 33,33%

It's not really fair and the rich are getting even richer this way. I love Nxt, but there are small flaws which needs to be addressed. The critics will talk negative about Nxt because of these kind of issues. 

Maybe a percentage instead of a fixed fee? Curious to hear about the options.

lets revise this thinking.. no one is getting "richer" by sending a 1NXT payment.

lets call NXT "Affordable"

I've forged plenty of blocks for 1, 2, 3 NXT. and just last week I forged a block with a 100,000 transaction that the sender included a 100NXT fee in., so I was happy.

[brooklynbtc]

By the way: Nxtchg's site is for sale: https://nxtchg.com/sale.php

Someone might want to take it over.

Anyone want to front me the 10btc for it? I'll run it at 1% fee and split it with you until you have your investment doubled.

Deal?

[btc2nxt]

http://rt.com/news/iran-attack-us-allegations-243/

collapse of the dollar might come sooner then i thought,,,

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1392039918.php

see paragraph:
PETRO-DOLLAR DEMISE & PETRO-GOLD RISE

us has the most powerful army in the world, and most innovative IT companies , so collapse will not soon.

[Asian Prepper]

Berlin (2)
Hive, BitAngels and Mastercoin guys, + many many others. We ale looking for a speaker at the San Francisco conf Everyone is so excited about Nxt, it is easy with nice T-shirts we have thanks tu admiral.fu

Texas guys are here, so the speaker is for sure.

Still only 2 Barbie girls, so not much fun, only business talks...

About those Texas guys - please find Paul Snow and ask him to verify me as a speaker for nxt in Austin.

yes we spoke with Paul a few times for quite a lot of time... It's settled up... I even had to sign some papers with my blood

Good job...I think.  What exactly did you sign?  And...is he a vampire?

A fellow nxter notified me that i was nominated to be on the nxt marketing crew after he read your marketing summary over at nextcoin.org.

What's the latest scoop?  What do i need to do to help out?

We have a marketing/promotion thread but no one seems to like posting there so that is why i'm asking you here.

Tai Zen

[MarvellousMutant]

Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated about the fee-system of Nxt, when I see these kind of blocks passing by:

[images deleted]

It's not really fair and the rich are getting even richer this way. I love Nxt, but there are small flaws which needs to be addressed. The critics will talk negative about Nxt because of these kind of issues.  

Maybe a percentage instead of a fixed fee? Curious to hear about the options.

lets revise this thinking.. no one is getting "richer" by sending a 1NXT payment.

lets call NXT "Affordable"

I've forged plenty of blocks for 1, 2, 3 NXT. and just last week I forged a block with a 100,000 transaction that the sender included a 100NXT fee in., so I was happy.

The transaction fee should cover the cost in processing said transaction. As the size of the transaction does not depend on the amount beeing transferred, both transactions should have the same fee.
Otherwise you will open the door to spamming.

The fee should be as small as possible while still sustaining a secure network. As the costs for forging are so low, this mainly comes down to a fee that discourages spamming. Even without spamming and a theoretical fee of 0 nxt, the Nxt hodlers would secure the network by themself to secure their coins.

[CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime]

Where is the source code?

Will be made available in a few weeks.

With all respect "in a few weeks" is unacceptable. You shouldn't have made it available if you weren't ready to release the source code. You should also be explicitely stating that its closed source.

I'll do it for you.

The Offspring Nxt client is CLOSED SOURCE. Use at your own risk!

Considering that most people store their money on Dgex or Bter it's not a big deal.

I'm not going to get into the whole dgex debacle, but we can assume that most people with funds on there probably don't want them on there.

Nonetheless, only about 10% of Nxt sits on exchanges. Closed source is a no go.

Seriously why even make this comment? Lets just have everything closed source then. The point is requiring basic standards no matter who is in question. The dgex standards have been... questionable in several ways.

Different strokes for different folks. Don't get me wrong... love open source initiatives. However, as we look to the masses (our future market) open source means crap to them.

Lots of clients in development, support the one that rings your bell.

[brooklynbtc]

http://rt.com/news/iran-attack-us-allegations-243/

collapse of the dollar might come sooner then i thought,,,

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1392039918.php

see paragraph:
PETRO-DOLLAR DEMISE & PETRO-GOLD RISE

us has the most powerful army in the world, and most innovative IT companies , so collapse will not soon.

and shale gas, 90% top universities, GDP, etc

[Eadeqa]

You guys sure are quick!  Here's the full scoop.

DGEX is proud to present Offspring - The Cross-Platform 2nd Gen Crypto Client.

http://offspring.dgex.com

Screen shots?

[qqNxt]

You guys sure are quick!  Here's the full scoop.

DGEX is proud to present Offspring - The Cross-Platform 2nd Gen Crypto Client.

http://offspring.dgex.com

Screen shots?

[LiQio]

Where is the source code?

Will be made available in a few weeks.

With all respect "in a few weeks" is unacceptable. You shouldn't have made it available if you weren't ready to release the source code. You should also be explicitely stating that its closed source.

I'll do it for you.

The Offspring Nxt client is CLOSED SOURCE. Use at your own risk!

Considering that most people store their money on Dgex or Bter it's not a big deal.

I'm not going to get into the whole dgex debacle, but we can assume that most people with funds on there probably don't want them on there.

Nonetheless, only about 10% of Nxt sits on exchanges. Closed source is a no go.

Seriously why even make this comment? Lets just have everything closed source then. The point is requiring basic standards no matter who is in question. The dgex standards have been... questionable in several ways.

Agree with buybitcoinscanada.
There's no reason for me to mistrust Graviton/GCinc, BUT: closed source client(!) with blockchain included(!) by the owner of an exchange and the biggest NXT forum....
hmmmm, could be dangerous and is not really the way to go!

[msin]

If someone wants to write up an overview of what exactly we need for the crypto auditing, I can send it to a few Crypto experts I've been in contact with.  Just PM me.

Please, CfB, help with that.

Edit: what kind of 'experts'?

I've been in contact with several people, including Matt Green (zerocoin).  I was originally referred to Matt by Susan Waters (http://cs.jhu.edu/~susan/) who was his professor, and Susan also recommended Lisa Yin in the same email.  I've had contact with Lisa and she sounds open to an audit.  Lisa has a PHD from MIT in Crypto.  I have contact with a few other academics as well.

Right, Lisa. I remember (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4989534#msg4989534). Well, what do you think, CfB?

Any update on this?

Not on my end.

[msin]

By the way: Nxtchg's site is for sale: https://nxtchg.com/sale.php

Someone might want to take it over.

Anyone want to front me the 10btc for it? I'll run it at 1% fee and split it with you until you have your investment doubled.

Deal?

Sure. PM me and I'll get on it tomorrow, going to bed now.

[pandaisftw]

Where is the source code?

Will be made available in a few weeks.

With all respect "in a few weeks" is unacceptable. You shouldn't have made it available if you weren't ready to release the source code. You should also be explicitely stating that its closed source.

I'll do it for you.

The Offspring Nxt client is CLOSED SOURCE. Use at your own risk!

Considering that most people store their money on Dgex or Bter it's not a big deal.

I'm not going to get into the whole dgex debacle, but we can assume that most people with funds on there probably don't want them on there.

Nonetheless, only about 10% of Nxt sits on exchanges. Closed source is a no go.

Seriously why even make this comment? Lets just have everything closed source then. The point is requiring basic standards no matter who is in question. The dgex standards have been... questionable in several ways.

Different strokes for different folks. Don't get me wrong... love open source initiatives. However, as we look to the masses (our future market) open source means crap to them.

Lots of clients in development, support the one that rings your bell.

So stolen accounts for some and audited open source clients for others it is then...

How can people fail to grasp the most basic importance of this. It has nothing to do with "open source initiatives". Its that people MUST know its safe to use based not on a persons guarantee (trust), but on open code that can be audited by anyone, anywhere, any time. This is peoples money and livelihoods were talking about.

Not to mention this:

Agree with buybitcoinscanada.
There's no reason for me to mistrust Graviton/GCinc, BUT: closed source client(!) with blockchain included(!) by the owner of an exchange and the biggest NXT forum....
hmmmm, could be dangerous and is not really the way to go!

I think GCInc. is a reasonable business person, he wouldn't want to hurt his reputation in any way.

Personally, I'll wait for the open source because I quite like the web-client which runs on my mini-computer, so I have no need for fancy wallets.

[allwelder]

Famous forum web in China added Nxt on their mainpage,

http://8btc.com/forum-74-1.html

With our promotion,more and more website will add Nxt ;

[swartzfeger]

Famous forum web in China added Nxt on their mainpage,

http://8btc.com/forum-74-1.html

With our promotion,more and more website will add Nxt ;

From doing the Chinese flyer I can understand a few words (coin, future)... seeing this is very nice! You and miramare have been doing great work for Nxt.