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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755812 times)
allwelder
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February 13, 2014, 06:16:09 AM
 #32981

PROPOSAL FOR AUTOMATED GATEWAY BACKED BY NXT COMMUNITY


I wanted to get the community's feedback on having a community backed gateway for the popular cryptos, eg. BTC, DOGE, LTC, etc. Long term, I want to have fully automated DAC's, but rather than wait for the NXT VM to be completed, I want to have a way for everyone to be able to trade cryptos in a decentralized way with a minimal amount of trust required.

What I am envisioning is the community will create automated gateway code that will be open sourced and it would be run on a hardened community server. If we cant find a volunteer to code the automated gateway, then I would be willing to hire for NXT someone to write the code. I have the design pretty much worked out, even using the existing AE restrictions.

deposit BTC -> gateway -> get BTC Asset
<BTC Asset is traded via AE>
withdraw BTC Asset -> gateway -> get BTC in wallet

The above is a simplified flow and you can replace BTC with DOGE or whatever we end up supporting. While the gateway would still be a single point of failure, it would be backed by the NXT community. Trusted members would manage the hardened server(s) and I think it makes sense to have a bit of NDIC (NXT deposit insurance by community) so in case of a loss caused by failure of gateway server. I am thinking that a 100000 NXT allocation against exploding data center will give additional peace of mind for people using the gateway. No protection if your computer gets hacked, the insurance is against the gateway server failures.

Assuming the community approves and I can get a volunteer to do the coding and a volunteer to get a hardened server (or maybe add this to an existing NXT node?) we can get this in place very quickly. As long as the gateway code runs, the  deposits and withdrawals will be processed automatically. Once inside the AE, everybody can trade it knowing it can be automatically withdrawn to the real thing at any time.

This means that within NXT there will be a decentralized exchange for all the cryptos, possibly within weeks!

If the client devs will also add a custom crypto exchange to the clients, NXT will effectively have this built in for all users. I am pretty sure DOGE can't do this!

James

Edit: Since community is paying for this, there will be no costs charged other than bare minimum protocol requires.
good idea
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allwelder
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February 13, 2014, 06:20:19 AM
 #32982

there is an new member named cfb in our forum http://www.nxts.info/home.php?mod=space&uid=60&do=profile  Wink
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February 13, 2014, 06:23:58 AM
 #32983

there is an new member named cfb in our forum http://www.nxts.info/home.php?mod=space&uid=60&do=profile  Wink

Another Elvis twin.
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February 13, 2014, 06:24:23 AM
 #32984

So we're confirmed with Vault of Satoshi and CoinMKT will review it. Could I please get a solid list of resources to make it a no-brainer implementation for the exchange.  

Ugh, this is great news... I just wish we could get you this list ASAP instead of having to pull teeth.

Since brooklynbtc/msin might be taking over https://nxtchg.com soon, maybe'll they'll be willing to share a list.

CfB, any input here for Justabit?
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February 13, 2014, 06:24:30 AM
 #32985

So we're confirmed with Vault of Satoshi and CoinMKT will review it. Could I please get a solid list of resources to make it a no-brainer implementation for the exchange.  

This could help a lot - http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API
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February 13, 2014, 06:25:10 AM
 #32986

Where is the source code?
Will be made available in a few weeks.

With all respect "in a few weeks" is unacceptable. You shouldn't have made it available if you weren't ready to release the source code. You should also be explicitely stating that its closed source.

I'll do it for you.

The Offspring Nxt client is CLOSED SOURCE. Use at your own risk!

Considering that most people store their money on Dgex or Bter it's not a big deal.

I'm not going to get into the whole dgex debacle, but we can assume that most people with funds on there probably don't want them on there.

Nonetheless, only about 10% of Nxt sits on exchanges. Closed source is a no go.

Seriously why even make this comment? Lets just have everything closed source then. The point is requiring basic standards no matter who is in question. The dgex standards have been... questionable in several ways.

Agree with buybitcoinscanada.
There's no reason for me to mistrust Graviton/GCinc, BUT: closed source client(!) with blockchain included(!) by the owner of an exchange and the biggest NXT forum....
hmmmm, could be dangerous and is not really the way to go!



I understand what are you guys talking about. And agree with you. Open source is a must. Although I see nothing really bad in using close source client for several weeks if it's released by Dgex, Bter, Vircurex etc. At least for someone who keeps his money on these exchanges. If you personally don't trust Dgex then don't use their client until it's open source. If you trust them and store you money on Dgex, then there's no reason for not using their client.

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February 13, 2014, 06:57:28 AM
 #32987

PROPOSAL FOR AUTOMATED GATEWAY BACKED BY NXT COMMUNITY


If the client devs will also add a custom crypto exchange to the clients, NXT will effectively have this built in for all users. I am pretty sure DOGE can't do this!

James

Edit: Since community is paying for this, there will be no costs charged other than bare minimum protocol requires.

If this is safe and works, I'd be willing to back this with some funds (5000 Nxt)
I can't judge that myself, but if some devs say it is, I'm game.

- me too (2000 NXT).
Great idea, James!

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, the Next platform.  Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
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February 13, 2014, 07:01:01 AM
 #32988



If someone wants to write up an overview of what exactly we need for the crypto auditing, I can send it to a few Crypto experts I've been in contact with.  Just PM me.

Please, CfB, help with that.

Edit: what kind of 'experts'?

I've been in contact with several people, including Matt Green (zerocoin).  I was originally referred to Matt by Susan Waters (http://cs.jhu.edu/~susan/) who was his professor, and Susan also recommended Lisa Yin in the same email.  I've had contact with Lisa and she sounds open to an audit.  Lisa has a PHD from MIT in Crypto.  I have contact with a few other academics as well.

Right, Lisa. I remember (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4989534#msg4989534). Well, what do you think, CfB?

Just do it. We need someone to check that Curve25519 and Crypto have no bugs.

What about signing? Is crypto = using the curve function? Please specify.
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February 13, 2014, 07:03:35 AM
 #32989

What about signing? Is crypto = using the curve function? Please specify.

Yes, Crypto class uses Curve25519 class to do key agreement and message signing.
allwelder
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February 13, 2014, 07:07:26 AM
 #32990

nxt.org news:
the domain name nxt.org have been auctioned with 1,3537 USD recently on Sedo platform .
http://news.domain.cn/html/yumingzixun/2014/0207/31292.html

bougt by Nxt community?
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February 13, 2014, 07:15:38 AM
 #32991

PROPOSAL FOR AUTOMATED GATEWAY BACKED BY NXT COMMUNITY


If the client devs will also add a custom crypto exchange to the clients, NXT will effectively have this built in for all users. I am pretty sure DOGE can't do this!

James

Edit: Since community is paying for this, there will be no costs charged other than bare minimum protocol requires.

If this is safe and works, I'd be willing to back this with some funds (5000 Nxt)
I can't judge that myself, but if some devs say it is, I'm game.

Community will review the source code to make sure it is safe. I am thinking that we verify cross chain transactions with both the local bitcoind and also blockchain.info to get two sources of transaction confirmation. To minimize any concentration of deposits issue, we can create many deposit wallets that withdrawals are taken from. On each server, only the server admin will know the wallet address for that server, so we compartmentalize the financial risk.

If we wanted to take the insurance concept a bit further, we could have the server operators put up a bond against any deposits disappearing.

The entire trust issue is something that MUST be solved, otherwise AE will not be useful for trading anything with real value.

Directed donations to NXTcommunityfund are alway welcome. Just post here and rickyjames will tally it all up.

James

let's give it a try
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February 13, 2014, 07:22:54 AM
 #32992

Quote
How does running potentialy malicious software used to directly access your money inside a VM protect the money that you're using the software to access? That's not good logic. Sure it segregates the rest of your system, but it does not protect the money..


Don't put most of your money in VM client account.

Quote
There is a huge difference. The source code can be audited. Then I can compile the open source code and run that. Then I can distribute those binaries to friends and family to use.

No one (at least not 99.999%) compile the source and run it. They just download and run the executable.   There is no way to be sure if they are same.

At some point, there has to be trust involved. You trust your operating system (did you compile it yourself?) You trust your browser (did you compile it yourself?) There is no such thing as zero trust. I personslly won't run bter software on my main system as I don't trust them (yet). To each it's own.






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February 13, 2014, 07:23:12 AM
 #32993

NXTio now in Russian!!

http://www.nxtio.org/?lang=ru

Thank you very much to Xoralex for his translation!
NXT Donations: 18027583818211494654
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February 13, 2014, 07:27:57 AM
 #32994

Is offspring still using the old nxt API or something (the one that will be removed) - since it shows blacklisted peers and other such things, which I don't think is included in the new, official API. Am I wrong?
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February 13, 2014, 07:31:48 AM
 #32995

Need some textNxt, someone please send me a few: 11655792499041825006

NXT: 13997163105778396158
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February 13, 2014, 07:34:42 AM
 #32996

Need some textNxt, someone please send me a few: 11655792499041825006

10k sent.

Btc : 12LMdyWoyjJ1BZxfWmaZMWjTXn7S9y5EdK
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February 13, 2014, 07:41:03 AM
 #32997



If someone wants to write up an overview of what exactly we need for the crypto auditing, I can send it to a few Crypto experts I've been in contact with.  Just PM me.

Please, CfB, help with that.

Edit: what kind of 'experts'?

I've been in contact with several people, including Matt Green (zerocoin).  I was originally referred to Matt by Susan Waters (http://cs.jhu.edu/~susan/) who was his professor, and Susan also recommended Lisa Yin in the same email.  I've had contact with Lisa and she sounds open to an audit.  Lisa has a PHD from MIT in Crypto.  I have contact with a few other academics as well.

Right, Lisa. I remember (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4989534#msg4989534). Well, what do you think, CfB?

Just do it. We need someone to check that Curve25519 and Crypto have no bugs.


You should email him (or her directly)  the source for 0.73

Her email is listed at http://people.csail.mit.edu/yiqun/

She already wrote in that email:

Quote
I am wondering what you are looking for in the code review. If it is mainly the correctness of the implementation, then I would take a pass. I feel that what would be most helpful for Nxt is to review how the above crypto algorithms are utilized within the Nxt currency system to achieve the intended security goals. "

If I understand it correctly, that means she is not willing to check any code. Checking the principal algorithm is not enough. Usually the problems come with the implementation of the algorithm.

Nothing Else Matters
NEM: NALICE-LGU3IV-Y4DPJK-HYLSSV-YFFWYS-5QPLYE-ZDJJ
NXT: 11095639652683007953
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February 13, 2014, 07:44:40 AM
 #32998

What about signing? Is crypto = using the curve function? Please specify.

Yes, Crypto class uses Curve25519 class to do key agreement and message signing.


@community
Did anyone try to contact Tanja Lange for the crypto/curve25519 review already?
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February 13, 2014, 07:47:41 AM
 #32999



If someone wants to write up an overview of what exactly we need for the crypto auditing, I can send it to a few Crypto experts I've been in contact with.  Just PM me.

Please, CfB, help with that.

Edit: what kind of 'experts'?

I've been in contact with several people, including Matt Green (zerocoin).  I was originally referred to Matt by Susan Waters (http://cs.jhu.edu/~susan/) who was his professor, and Susan also recommended Lisa Yin in the same email.  I've had contact with Lisa and she sounds open to an audit.  Lisa has a PHD from MIT in Crypto.  I have contact with a few other academics as well.

Right, Lisa. I remember (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4989534#msg4989534). Well, what do you think, CfB?

Just do it. We need someone to check that Curve25519 and Crypto have no bugs.


You should email him (or her directly)  the source for 0.73

Her email is listed at http://people.csail.mit.edu/yiqun/

She already wrote in that email:

Quote
I am wondering what you are looking for in the code review. If it is mainly the correctness of the implementation, then I would take a pass. I feel that what would be most helpful for Nxt is to review how the above crypto algorithms are utilized within the Nxt currency system to achieve the intended security goals. "

If I understand it correctly, that means she is not willing to check any code. Checking the principal algorithm is not enough. Usually the problems come with the implementation of the algorithm.


I agree. She should be sent the full source code of 0.73

NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
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February 13, 2014, 07:50:27 AM
 #33000

I agree. She should be sent the full source code of 0.73

What for? She already said that wouldn't check the implementation.
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