Devcoin

[Unthinkingbit]

Thanks for all the stock bounty suggestions.

The stock exchange bounty will be 4 generation shares for the first devcoin stock exchange which meets the basic requirements:

1) Create new listing
2) Issue new stocks
3) Buy/sell stocks

The next two requirements are optional and are worth 2 generation shares each:

4) Pay dividends
5) Delist stock

An exchange which meets all the requirements would get a total of 8 shares.  The additional feature of

6) Stock splits / Reverse splits

is useful, but isn't quite necessary to have a useful exchange.  The additional feature of:

7) Options (probably very low priority as there is no Options volume on Vircurex, I assume interest is rather limited.)

is of limited interest until the underlying issue is trading at least 100,000 $/day.  So having Stock Splits or Options doesn't get more bounty.  Companies on that exchange could also trade in bitcoins or something else, the bounty is awarded for being able to trade a company in devcoins, the bounty is not lost if a company can also trade in another currency.  In general, the stocks will probably trade in devcoins and bitcoins.  The next devcoin exchange will get 6 shares, then 4, and finally 2.

Furthermore, there will be a bounty of 5 generation shares for the first open source company which trades in devcoins and makes at least a dollar of revenue.  The next company meeting the requirements will get 4, then 3, then 2 and finally 1.  Because people can set up a mining company relatively easily and make a dollar of revenue, which would drain the bounty for all other types of companies, there will be an additional bounty of 5 generation shares for the first open source non-mining company which trades in devcoins and makes at least a dollar of revenue.  The next company meeting the requirements will get 4, then 3, then 2 and finally 1.  Good accomplishment applies to the company bounties, so they will not be awarded for ponzi schemes, spam companies, etc..

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[markm]

Delisting could be problematic with Open Transactions. It cannot delete stuff that is part of its evidence trail.

What does delisting actually consist of? What has to be done to constitute a delisting?

What happens to people's existing holdings? If it involves suspending trading, how do they get cashed out / get their money back type thing?

-MarkM-

[cablepair]

I just want to make a suggestion, I think its important to have to prove your identity beyond just having to upload your keys, GLBSE strive to be anonymous, and because of that it is very easy for someone to scam, also the other side of it is , if you are a legit person who has a legit business , its difficult to prove who you really are, you should have to upload a scan of your ID, and accounts should be registered to real names , not to forum aliases..

thanks for listening!

[teek]

I just want to make a suggestion, I think its important to have to prove your identity beyond just having to upload your keys, GLBSE strive to be anonymous, and because of that it is very easy for someone to scam, also the other side of it is , if you are a legit person who has a legit business , its difficult to prove who you really are, you should have to upload a scan of your ID, and accounts should be registered to real names , not to forum aliases..

thanks for listening!

That's hard man.  You can be as legit as you want, but unfortunately, some asshats decided that they can make you a criminal for what should be a matter of free will..  I'd love to do more with Bitcoin stocks / glbse etc.. except I fear legal issues.  I don't think that's right. 

[markm]

I don't particularly like the idea of getting entangled in some anonymous person's reputation by letting them issue their possibly dubious offerings on my server.

It is easy for an Open Transactions client to have a number of servers it connects to, so why not have people who want to issue things issue them on servers of their own? No separate worry about can you trust the server operator plus can you trust the issuer, they will be the same person.

And no worrying will some asshat do an issue on my server that will give my server a bad rep for being involved with such an issue.

I don't see much/any upside to allowing people to issue stuff of their own on my server.

-MarkM-

[cablepair]

I agree with both of you. It's such a grey area, especially for those of us that live in the USA, I have battled with this myself - I want to be an honest businessman but at the same time participating in the GLBSE could quite possibly be totally illegal.

[Unthinkingbit]

Delisting could be problematic with Open Transactions. It cannot delete stuff that is part of its evidence trail.

What does delisting actually consist of? What has to be done to constitute a delisting?

What happens to people's existing holdings?

Since Open Transactions can not delete stuff, in that case an Open Transactions exchange should be able to suspend trading.  So no one would be able to trade and the last price string would be 'Delisted' or something like that.

If it involves suspending trading, how do they get cashed out / get their money back type thing?

If a company is delisted it usually means they're worthless and there wouldn't be any money to get back.  If it was an orderly shutdown and there was still some money in the corporate account and/or there are some assets that could be sold, a trustee would sell everything and then send that out to the shareholders as a final dividend payment.

I don't particularly like the idea of getting entangled in some anonymous person's reputation by letting them issue their possibly dubious offerings on my server.

You can screen companies on your exchange by whatever criteria you wish.  The bounty is simply for being able to list stocks, you're not required to list companies that don't meet your standards.  You can insist on real names, a web site, a real address (not just a PO box), financial statements, a real business plan; whatever you deem necessary to demonstrate that the company is legit.

That's hard man.  You can be as legit as you want, but unfortunately, some asshats decided that they can make you a criminal for what should be a matter of free will..  I'd love to do more with Bitcoin stocks / glbse etc.. except I fear legal issues.  I don't think that's right. 

I agree with both of you. It's such a grey area, especially for those of us that live in the USA, I have battled with this myself - I want to be an honest businessman but at the same time participating in the GLBSE could quite possibly be totally illegal.

If someone else wants to make an another exchange in a more liberal jurisdiction, they could.  Until then, people in many countries may not be able to list their company.

[markm]

Well listing is easy, as is trading.

I am not sure about paying dividends automatically though, for one thing just trying to find out which nyms own shares might be too much of a breach of privacy to be possible to any normal script, then if the dividend is to be payed in some currency other than the shares themselves trying to figure out whether the smae nym that owns a share also owns an account denominated in the type of currency the dividends are to be payed in might be even more of a breach of privacy.

To do it without invading privacy might be possible though by issuing a new "first dividend payed" type of share though maybe in a basket currency which one could buy using "no dividends payed yet" shares or something like that, the basket would contain the new issue of share plus whatever the dividend is to be.

I guess I need to explore what exactly a script is allowed to do. Somehow I don't think querying other people's nyms as to whether they own certain types of accounts seems a very legit kind of ability for script in general to have. But maybe for this share dividends purpose it is going to be necessary.

EDIT: Chatting with FellowTraveler in IRC, apparently he plans to make routines specifically for this in Open Transactions. So although the capability is not there yet, it is on the roadmap/plan. SO we can go ahead and start issuing shares knowing someday the code for doing the dividends will come along.


-MarkM-

[markm]

What is wrong with the .PRO ?

Are you maybe missing boost or curl or some such dependency?

-MarkM-

[btc_artist]

participating in the GLBSE could quite possibly be totally illegal.

Why?

[Unthinkingbit]

Is there a DEVCOIN windows EXE app?  I have the ones from 8/23 (twobit?), but it stops loading the chain at block 10842 (and only shows 3 connections).  And, I cannot get the latest .PRO to compile.  Thanks.

That devcoin.exe version from twobit does not work because it is from before the difficulty change.  If anyone makes a Windows exe from the Dec 9 version of devcoin or later:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/galacticmilieu/files/

they'll get 2/5 of a generation share.

[cablepair]

participating in the GLBSE could quite possibly be totally illegal.

Why?

I am no expert in this area but from my limited understanding on the US laws, it is illegal for Americans to participate in this type of thing. I mean c'mon there must be at the very least financial rules are regulations involving the SEC and US government that must be followed in order to even attempt to do something like this on any kind of legal level.

If anyone else is more knowledgeable on this subject I would love to hear what you have to say.

[markm]

I want to make stock exchanges players build in freeciv cities to be able to be actually functional, even to the extent that research and development of new technologies, including actual functionality for features of games, clients to play them with and so on, can be integrated into games.

Is it illegal to have corporations in EVE Online? Are EVE corporations unable to work with shares and stocks and bonds and so on?

Are game currencies going to have to be constantly spawned and abandoned as each currency starts to be perceived as having value?

Didn't some Chinese online game start to find its currency being perceived as a threat to the local fiat?

How long can fiat continue to be perceived as valuable if the only way it can hold its own against game currencies is by banning games or banning the representation of currencies in representations of nations, cultures, adventurers, whatever - simulations?

Just because fiat itself seems to turn out to be a ponzi scheme and has to abandoned periodically as being so, must all representations of exchange of value follow in its footsteps by similiarly being periodically abandoned, and for, it seems essentially the same reason: governments intruding and messing things up, destroying value?

This is so silly. If freeciv nation's national currencies are some kind of threat to real nations then maybe one should recall the famous moral of C.S. Lewis' "The Silver Chair": if a few children can imagine a better world than the one you come from, maybe the one you come from could do with being re-thought...

-MarkM-

[cablepair]

all the user reported problems with devtome have now been fixed , if you see any other problems let me know
thanks

[Unthinkingbit]

Mark has been awarded the bounty for developing another devtome wiki, with advertising:
http://devtome.medianewsonline.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

Mark wanted the total 6 share or 60 BTC bounty in bitcoins, so I sent him 60 BTC and provisionally I will in turn get 6 extra generation shares in round 7.  If anyone wants up to 6 extra shares, I will trade them at 10 BTC/share, until block 24,500.  The round 7 receiver file will be made at around block 25,000.

If anyone else makes a devcoin wiki, they will get 2/4 of the bounty, and the last 1/4.

Every secondary devtome wiki gets 1/5 of a share for basic maintenance, plus 1/5 of a share for backing up the primary wiki or being ready to back it up until the primary wiki has a backup file.

The primary wiki will get 10% of the ad revenue to cover its costs.

At the time of this writing, the create new account function in the primary wiki is not working reliably.  When it is, that will be posted in this thread.

[cablepair]

its still not working?

I installed the extension you asked me to... let me check it out

actually It does work

Unthinkingbit I just confirmed your test3 account you requested

not sure what the problem is , It worked for me, you have to access the user controls via special pages

damn I feel like a loser now that we have to have multiple backup wikis lol

[Unthinkingbit]

Unthinkingbit I just confirmed your test3 account you requested

I tried logging in to it, but I have not received a password by mail or personal message, so I could not log in.

If you are using automatic email, please test it with a gmail account.  I've only received only email from the wiki, on November 26.  Despite clicking the button several times for Test2 and Test4, starting yesterday, I have not received another email.

damn I feel like a loser now that we have to have multiple backup wikis lol

That was part of the bounty:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg614316#msg614316

The reason for the backup wiki is simply because sometimes the first of anything doesn't completely work or is abandoned, and because independent backups are necessary.

[cablepair]

I just tested the entire process, it works perfectly just like you wanted it to

for someone to get an account they have to click login/create an account

then they have to click request an account
and fill out the form

then they get a confirmation email

then when they confirm the email

an admin can confirm the account by going to special pages
Users and Rights > Confirm Account Requests

go ahead and check it out, It works perfectly from start to finish.

[Unthinkingbit]

..
go ahead and check it out, It works perfectly from start to finish.

Indeed, I just checked the spam folder and all nine emails are in there.  I forgot to move the spam folder into the main list for that email account so I didn't see that it was getting filled.  I don't know why the email on Nov 26 got through and the recent ones didn't.  I'm sorry for taking your time.

[cablepair]

np bud