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Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 368693 times)
Unthinkingbit
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August 16, 2012, 09:33:30 AM
 #661

For the second devcoin stock exchange bounty:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg649844;topicseen#msg649844

Cryptostock's exchange:
https://cryptostocks.com/

gets the base of four, plus two for dividends, plus one out of two for delisting bonds, but not stocks, for a total of 7 shares. 7 shares times 3/4 for being second, gives an award of 5.25, which is rounded up to 6.

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August 16, 2012, 11:05:54 AM
 #662

It seems I didn't tar/zip the old devcoin-qt to put on my sourceforge downloads site.

It is however still on github:

https://github.com/knotwork/old-devcoin-qt.git

It seems to work fine for me, so if anyone wants a GUI version of devcoin - with the proviso that mining is disabled in the GUI version due to thread problems that would make it crash if mining was enabled - grab it from that github repo...

I compiled and ran it, it worked on my Linux/Ubuntu machine, so Mark gets the twelve share bounty:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg666440#msg666440


cablepair, was this the version you needed to access your wallet?

Or do you still need a different version?

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August 16, 2012, 02:21:27 PM
 #663

ill try it today, if not ill just send it to you, and you can have it.
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August 16, 2012, 02:25:04 PM
 #664

ill try it today, if not ill just send it to you, and you can have it.

haha, I'm sure I won't have half the skills that you have.  I supposed we could put a bounty out for it and some day it will be worth everyone's time to figure it out.

Thanks for staying on top of the forums!

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August 18, 2012, 03:42:49 PM
 #665

Devcoin Bounty Security @ CS
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/14

Verification:        Premium
Ticker:                DVB
Name:                Devcoin Bounty
Listed on:           18. August 2012
Owner:               richard.porubcan at gmail.com
Shares issued:    10 000 000
Shares held publicly:   264,445
Total dividends paid:   0
Web page:   http://glari.ch:3000/info?project_id=dvb

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1110708#msg1110708

muqali
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August 18, 2012, 06:57:43 PM
 #666

I receive devcoins as part of merged mining on bitparking. Does anyone use them for anything more than converting to BTC either via trade or an exchange? I read the original intent was to help open source developers. I donate annually to the FSF as well as Trisquel(a libre linux distro).

I see two options with devcoins. I could hoard them. By hoarding them, I gain nothing, but I also lose nothing as they're merged mined. I could send them to an exchange and convert them into BTC. The 90% that goes to developers, where does it go? The merged mining sends me 10% and the other 90% goes to? Should I maybe hoard up one five hundred thousand devcoins and then donate them to a developer/FOSS project of my choice?

What does everyone else here do with their devcoins, and who here is a developer that receives the 90%? Are there any GNU projects that receive devcoins? Do any of the BSD's receive any? The value of DVC being so low in terms of BTC exchange rates makes me wonder if anyone at all is benefiting, but I'd like to know for sure.

donations BTC: 1CaCwo4xneTqTLEdomW76Cg5NteZyvXi1c
donations LTC: LTcasvjtLuN92ks1Pc1qtkvE9PswsXEbev
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August 18, 2012, 07:17:02 PM
 #667

Quote
I receive devcoins as part of merged mining on bitparking. Does anyone use them for anything more than converting to BTC either via trade or an exchange? I read the original intent was to help open source developers.  

Yes you are right, its awesome to invest them in projects.
This funds the development of real life GNU goods and tools.

To put this  purpose vital, a bounty security was issued https://cryptostocks.com/securities/14

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August 18, 2012, 09:39:55 PM
 #668

Quote
I receive devcoins as part of merged mining on bitparking. Does anyone use them for anything more than converting to BTC either via trade or an exchange? I read the original intent was to help open source developers.  

Yes you are right, its awesome to invest them in projects.
This funds the development of real life GNU goods and tools.

To put this  purpose vital, a bounty security was issued https://cryptostocks.com/securities/14

To me the process seems very obfuscated. So me as a non developer, merged mining, I get 10%. If I were a developer, do I get a special minerd to allow me to earn my 90% versus the normal 10%? Or do the additional coins sit in a pool until they are given to developers? On that cryptostocks site it seems most of the projects are to further mine either devcoins or bitcoins. Can anyone cite an actual software project that isn't further mining?

I'm not going to stop mining devcoins as it is basically free via merged mining, I'll just keep trading them for BTC when I have more than I trust the exchange to be holding. I just don't see any real world software benefiting from it. By real world software I mean something that would be in a default install of Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, or Fedora. GRUB, nano, some part of GTK, being examples.

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August 18, 2012, 09:57:34 PM
 #669

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Can anyone cite an actual software project that isn't further mining?
Devcoin is evolving every day Smiley

Quote
..if I were a developer, do I get a special minerd...
No, you get listet in a csv file Smiley

Quote
On that cryptostocks site it seems most of the projects are to further mine either devcoins or bitcoins
No you find some HYIP on CS aswell

DVB Project on CS
The intention of the project is described in the security
In short: Devcoin Bounty is the driving force of development

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August 19, 2012, 01:15:37 AM
 #670

To me the process seems very obfuscated. So me as a non developer, merged mining, I get 10%. If I were a developer, do I get a special minerd to allow me to earn my 90% versus the normal 10%? Or do the additional coins sit in a pool until they are given to developers?
The pool doesn't get the additional coins. The generation coins the miner gets are the 10%. The remaining 90% are distributed as part of the mined block to addresses belonging to 'open source developers'. These addresses are obtained from a csv file that is regularly downloaded by the client and controlled by the devcoin developers. It's a bit centralized compared to other coins - the developers control who gets what when coins are mined.
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August 19, 2012, 02:32:44 AM
 #671

Technically it is not "necessarily" the developers who make the decisions, as anyone who is already on the recipients list can apply to become an administrator type. On the one hand we theoretically need more administrators to make it more diverse, less centralised; but on the other hand how many stomaches does a committee need before it ends up as the proverbial beast with umpteen stomachs and no brain? Larger numbers of admins might make for more problems not less, who knows?

ANyone who is working ten or more hours a week on open source stuff, whether it be hardware, firmware, software, music, literature, or whatever, can apply to get on the list of recipients. A lot of developers I have suggested apply have not bothered to do so; some even disparage the idea.

FellowTraveler, author of Open Transactions, is on the list. So am I. So is at least one other person working on Open Transactions. I wonder why the bitcoin devs are not on it? Hmmm...

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Unthinkingbit
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August 19, 2012, 03:54:22 AM
 #672

I receive devcoins as part of merged mining on bitparking. Does anyone use them for anything more than converting to BTC either via trade or an exchange? I read the original intent was to help open source developers. I donate annually to the FSF as well as Trisquel(a libre linux distro).

I see two options with devcoins. I could hoard them. By hoarding them, I gain nothing, but I also lose nothing as they're merged mined. I could send them to an exchange and convert them into BTC. The 90% that goes to developers, where does it go? The merged mining sends me 10% and the other 90% goes to? Should I maybe hoard up one five hundred thousand devcoins and then donate them to a developer/FOSS project of my choice?

I wrote an answer, pasted below, as a donation section in the devcoin article:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Devcoin#Donation

Devcoin gives people a way to keep their money with open source developers, with the option of taking the money back if it is needed. In other words, with a typical donation, you give the money to a person or organization, and if later you find that the charity is ineffective, or you need your money back because you're in dire straits, the money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it. By holding devcoins, your money is being used by open source organizations, and the longer you keep it there, the more benefit it gives to the developers. If you decide that devcoin is ineffective, or you need your money back because you're in dire straits, you can sell your devcoins.

If you want to give to a developer of your choice, giving them devcoins is a good way to go because by giving them devcoins, you're directly helping that developer, and indirectly helping all the other developers on the share lists. Although, in this case, since it's a direct donation, there is no way to get the devcoins back from the recipient if decide in future that you want your coins back. The reversible donation concept only applies when you're holding devcoins yourself.

Also, people sometimes lose money. If you lose fiat currency, you've made a permanent donation to the banks, if you lose devcoins, you've made a permanent donation to developers.

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August 19, 2012, 03:59:49 AM
 #673

Quote
Can anyone cite an actual software project that isn't further mining?
Devcoin is evolving every day Smiley

Quote
..if I were a developer, do I get a special minerd...
No, you get listet in a csv file Smiley

Quote
On that cryptostocks site it seems most of the projects are to further mine either devcoins or bitcoins
No you find some HYIP on CS aswell

DVB Project on CS
The intention of the project is described in the security
In short: Devcoin Bounty is the driving force of development

Your forum post about DVB makes no sense.

Unthinkingbit
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August 19, 2012, 04:06:27 AM
 #674

What does everyone else here do with their devcoins, and who here is a developer that receives the 90%? Are there any GNU projects that receive devcoins? Do any of the BSD's receive any? The value of DVC being so low in terms of BTC exchange rates makes me wonder if anyone at all is benefiting, but I'd like to know for sure.

I wrote an answer, pasted below, as a history section in the devcoin article:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Devcoin#History


Bounties were offered for the creation of a charity pool which would give 1% of the mining to bitcoin developers:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20455.0

In total 37 BTC in bounties were paid to two people who started charity pools. Shamen made a pool but then abandoned it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=25022

AnnihilaT made the Mainframe Mining Cooperative, and it was successful for a while. I believe at its peak it donated a bit less than 10 BTC/month to the people on the bitcoin share list. At the time the bitcoin share list:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/bitcoinshare.html

had around 20 people on it, so that worked out to less than 0.5 BTC/month per developer. It operated at high power for about three months, which works out to roughly a 30 BTC total, 1.5 BTC/developer. However, it was shut down by the threat of a DDOS attack:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24650.msg585867#msg585867

so now the people on the bitcoin share list are not getting any bitcoins at all. They are only getting devcoins.

The reason devcoin was made was that even when the Mainframe Mining Cooperative was doing well, because it only donated around 1% of the mining, the developers ended up getting only a tiny amount. Charity is typically 1% of an economy and for all the talk of donations, charity is simply not enough to give open source developers a reasonable income. Devcoin gives 90% to developers, it is the only thing which is giving open source developers a substantial income at all right now, and once it gets known that income will be a reasonable amount.

In the beginning, devcoin gave all the donation coins to programmers, nothing was given to profitable projects. It was hoped that people would buy devcoins as a way to give money to developers, and that would keep the devcoin value high. That hope failed. Shortly after merged mining started, which was necessary to give devcoin security and therefore value, in January 2012 the devcoin market capitalization averaged around 0.00000025 BTC/DVC * 1,200,000,000 DVC = 300 BTC in January 2012.

Since pure charity didn't work, devcoin was changed to a beneficial organization, similar in concept to a benefit corporation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation

Devcoin would primarily fund open source projects whose revenue would be converted to devcoins, and secondarily fund open source developers with no expectation of future revenue. This has been successful, and at the time of this writing in August 18 2012, the devcoin market capitalization is about 0.00000140 BTC/DVC * 2,720,400,000 DVC = 3,809 BTC, of which 90% * 3,809 BTC = 3,428 BTC went to developers. The first open source revenue project is devtome:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

whose potential advertising revenue is small but growing.

The developers who receive devcoins each month are those on the bitcoin share list:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/bitcoinshare.html

and the devcoin share list:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devcoinshare.html

At the time of this writing, devcoins are going to developers of

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August 22, 2012, 08:54:15 AM
 #675

IMPORTANT BUGFIX: See [Full Disclosure] CVE-2012-2459 (block merkle calculation exploit) for info about a bugfix which I have just now applied to devcoind and devcoin-qt

The devcoind is on github as https://github.com/knotwork/old-devcoind

The devcoin-qt is on github as https://github.com/knotwork/old-devcoin-qt

Both are also available in the DeVCoin subdirectory of my Sourceforge file-download site

https://sourceforge.net/projects/galacticmilieu/files/

They are there as devcoind-22-Aug-2012.tgz and devcoin-qt-22-Aug-2012.tgz

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Unthinkingbit
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August 23, 2012, 07:15:32 AM
 #676

To make it easier for miners to get devcoins, there is now a devcoin pool bounty. The bounty is for any pool which allows the conversion of any part of the mining earnings to devcoins, in some way. It could be a new pool, or a collaboration with an existing pool, all that matters is that miners can get paid in devcoins. The pool could optionally convert earnings to other currencies, or shares. The pool operator must explain how the exchange rate is calculated.

Paying out converted devcoin transactions worth a total of at least 1 BTC gets half the bounty rounded up. The transaction rate must be within 10% of the rate of a major exchange, like Open Transactions or vircurex. If the pool is paying out converted transactions a month later, it will get the remainder of the bounty.

The bounty is 12 generation shares for the first pool, shared equally among the developers, 9 for the second, 6 for the third and 3 for the last.

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August 23, 2012, 08:01:16 AM
 #677

To make it easier for miners to get devcoins, there is now a devcoin pool bounty. The bounty is for any pool which allows the conversion of any part of the mining earnings to devcoins, in some way.
By conversion I assume you mean not just paying out of devcoins earned as part of the process of mining? But conversion of other coins earned as part of the process of mining into bitcoins?

The bounty is 12 for the first pool, shared equally among the developers, 9 for the second, 6 for the third and 3 for the last.
What unit is the bounty denominated in? ie. 12 what.
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August 23, 2012, 08:11:35 AM
 #678

By conversion I assume you mean not just paying out of devcoins earned as part of the process of mining? But conversion of other coins earned as part of the process of mining into bitcoins?

Yup. The conversion can be done through an exchange, or it can be done by the pool operator paying out of his personal coins and taking the mined coins in exchange, or by offering mining shares, or whatever. Doesn't matter how it's done, the only requirement is that the pool operator must explain how the exchange rate is calculated. For example, the rate could be the average of the bid and ask on vircurex minus 2%, or miners could get a mining share which could be traded, etc..

Quote
The bounty is 12 for the first pool, shared equally among the developers, 9 for the second, 6 for the third and 3 for the last.

What unit is the bounty denominated in? ie. 12 what.

Thanks for the catch, the bounty is in generation shares and the Devcoin Pool Bounty post has been edited accordingly. Also, the requirement to explain how the exchange rate is calculated has been added:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1125683#msg1125683


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August 23, 2012, 08:33:45 AM
 #679

Yup. The conversion can be done through an exchange, or it can be done by the pool operator paying out of his personal coins and taking the mined coins in exchange, or by offering mining shares, or whatever. Doesn't matter how it's done, the only requirement is that the pool operator must explain how the exchange rate is calculated. For example, the rate could be the average of the bid and ask on vircurex minus 2%, or miners could get a mining share which could be traded, etc..
What's to stop the pool from offering a conversion of 0.00000001 devcoin per 100 bitcoin, or something terrible like that just to gain the bounty? Is there a time limit or required hash rate limit before the bounty is given to stop someone starting a pool with almost no users, getting the bounty, then shutting it down?
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August 23, 2012, 08:49:27 AM
 #680

Good points. In the past people momentarily putting something online only to shut it down later once they have received the bounty has been a problem.

Conversion rates is also an interesting consideration, I have been accumulating historic values and putting them online at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html but I can easily understand how/why someone would prefer to use for example the much much lower devcoin exchange rates found at vircurex if their users demanded bitcoins instead of devcoins.

Arbitrage is supposedly expected to eliminate such large differences in exchange rates, but so far my exchange has no active arbitragers conducting arbitrage against vircurex otherwise presumably all those dirt cheap devcoins on vircurex would have been snapped up by now and moved to my exchange.

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