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Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 369171 times)
Unthinkingbit
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November 09, 2012, 07:31:43 AM
 #861

There has been speculation about the amount of devcoin available in CIRCULATION, I theorized 20% as the majority are held for projects and bounties and other items. Does anyone have an accurate number so I can answer these questions others keep asking. I think this may impact dvc price on the exchanges as people seem to think there are a couple billion floating around, when in reality I feel its closer to 50million in circulation?

Every devcoin made is in someone's wallet. At the time of this writing, there are 65,053 blocks, times 50,000 devcoins/block gives 3,252,650,000 devcoins.

Every round, roughly a month long, 200,000,000 devcoins are generated. Ten percent of generation goes to miners. Of the remaining 90%, I estimate 30% went to active developers, 30% to bounties, and 30% to devtome writers. Assuming, very roughly, that miners sell half their coins, and developers sell one sixth of their coins, that means 10% / 2 + 90% / 6 = 20% coins are sold, 200,000,000 devcoins/round * 20% = 40,000,000 devcoins sold per round.

A large number go towards the open source developers don't they? I suspect many receiving them don't even know, or have forgotten, they are getting them.

Yes, some of the developers on the bitcoin share list, especially those who were there since the beginning, probably don't even know they have devcoins.

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jasinlee
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November 09, 2012, 08:04:08 AM
 #862

What is the time table on the difficulty rising on the devcoins, it seems like the current rate is going to continue to deflate their value unless production is slowed?

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
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November 09, 2012, 08:53:05 AM
 #863

What is the time table on the difficulty rising on the devcoins, it seems like the current rate is going to continue to deflate their value unless production is slowed?

This is not important for devcoin value... all that is important is for devcoin to find it's market, of course I think this could be sped along with say doing away with an antiquated block chain bloat system (which is one unfortunate carry over from bitcoin) in favor of a new system that is more resource friendly and more scalable....  if devcoin were to have that implemented in a way that preserved it's merge mine capabilities it would probably be the best *coin system for say microtransactions at it's 1000 to 1 generation ratio.

The price of devcoin has been trending positively because there has been some recent healthy growth in the economy of devcoin, it's certainly a *coin that speculators should keep an eye on but failing an utter collapse of bitcoin I would never expect 1 to 1 price ratios, the more hopeful ratio we will get back to is 1000 to 1 so there is a lot of room to speculate on  Wink

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November 09, 2012, 10:08:45 AM
 #864

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Yes, some of the developers on the bitcoin share list, especially those who were there since the beginning, probably don't even know they have devcoins.

Could you please identify those developers, who are not aware that they getting dvc ?? We need more liquidity in the market. Its urgent!

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I would never expect 1 to 1 price ratios, the more hopeful ratio we will get back to is 1000 to 1 so there is a lot of room to speculate on

Well you never know, since there is not such a "Bitcoindust" problem, cause of the larger amount of Devcoins the price ratio could become realy interesting.
In my personal opinion Devcoins are bether suited for microtransactions. Since micro by now would mean amounts larger then 0.
Devcoin is the only chain as far i know that solved this from the beginning.

See it this way:
Theoreticaly there are
7 000 000 000 People on this planet but just 21 000 000 Bitcoins means 0.003 BTC per Person
21 000 000 000 Devcoin / 7000 000 000 means 3 DVC per Person


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November 09, 2012, 10:56:27 AM
 #865

Well you never know, since there is not such a "Bitcoindust" problem, cause of the larger amount of Devcoins the price ratio could become realy interesting.
In my personal opinion Devcoins are bether suited for microtransactions. Since micro by now would mean amounts larger then 0.
Devcoin is the only chain as far i know that solved this from the beginning.

See it this way:
Theoreticaly there are
7 000 000 000 People on this planet but just 21 000 000 Bitcoins means 0.003 BTC per Person
21 000 000 000 Devcoin / 7000 000 000 means 3 DVC per Person

Not sure I can agree it was "solved" but the problem was... slowed or pushed out further at least.  It's good to see that there is another sane person who actually recognizes this problem though :-)  but given similar comments made out here in talk land I'd be prepared for a tongue lashing now if I were you lol....  it seems *coiners don't much like hearing about this issue or even thinking beyond solutions that involve decimal place shifting magic.

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November 09, 2012, 10:18:09 PM
 #866

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Not sure I can agree it was "solved" but the problem was...
You are right its not solved, but the probability this becomes a real problem is 1000 times smaller then on the btc or any other 21 000 000 chain..

Unthinkingbit
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November 09, 2012, 11:52:25 PM
 #867

What is the time table on the difficulty rising on the devcoins, it seems like the current rate is going to continue to deflate their value unless production is slowed?

There is no block halving in devcoin, it is constant generation:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Devcoin#Generation_Rate


Quote
Yes, some of the developers on the bitcoin share list, especially those who were there since the beginning, probably don't even know they have devcoins.

Could you please identify those developers, who are not aware that they getting dvc ?? We need more liquidity in the market. Its urgent!

The reason why devcoin liquidity is tiny is because the value is tiny. Sale volume is roughly 40,000,000 devcoins/month * 0.000002 bitcoin/devcoin = 80 bitcoins/month. If the devcoin value rises, the liquidity will rise.

Quote
..
Theoreticaly there are
7 000 000 000 People on this planet but just 21 000 000 Bitcoins means 0.003 BTC per Person
21 000 000 000 Devcoin / 7000 000 000 means 3 DVC per Person

Actually, there is constant generation, so there is no limit to the number of devcoins. The 21 billionth devcoin will be generated in about 21,000,000,000 devcoins / 200,000,000 devcoins/month = 105 months ~ 9 years.

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November 10, 2012, 12:30:05 AM
 #868

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If the devcoin value rises, the liquidity will rise.

Sure thing, but we should at least inform the developers who didnt pick up there devcoins yet that they have a devcoin account.

jasinlee
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November 10, 2012, 01:18:55 AM
 #869

Someone has been progressively buying up the devcoins on vircurex, and had a few discussions where people are saying they will begin hoarding dvc for the foreseeable future. Things are looking up up up! Smiley

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
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November 10, 2012, 01:51:24 AM
 #870

pastebin.com is down. I think devcoin should use other pastebins as mirrors as well, just to prevent this from happening again.

Icoin
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November 10, 2012, 02:06:46 AM
 #871

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... where people are saying they will begin hoarding dvc for the foreseeable future. Things are looking up up up! Smiley

Why hoard when you can invest Smiley

jasinlee
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November 10, 2012, 02:09:21 AM
 #872

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... where people are saying they will begin hoarding dvc for the foreseeable future. Things are looking up up up! Smiley

Why hoard when you can invest Smiley

Agreed, thats what I did, my small investment has already grown about 300%.

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
Unthinkingbit
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November 10, 2012, 03:17:49 AM
 #873

..
Sure thing, but we should at least inform the developers who didnt pick up there devcoins yet that they have a devcoin account.

Good point. I should of done that a long time ago, but didn't.

I just started sending messages to the developers on the donation list who never mentioned devcoin.

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November 10, 2012, 03:42:58 AM
 #874

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...sending messages to the developers
I request an developers account for the p2pool core team, since they do a great job! And DVC benefits a lot from it!

Unthinkingbit
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November 10, 2012, 03:54:09 AM
 #875

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...sending messages to the developers
I request an developers account for the p2pool core team, since they do a great job! And DVC benefits a lot from it!

It's a good project. If someone on that team wants to go on the donation list, they can message me or post on this thread.

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November 10, 2012, 01:47:12 PM
 #876

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It's a good project. If someone on that team wants to go on the donation list, they can message me or post on this thread.

Maybe it is a good idea to set the compiler of the bitcoin client for the various operation systems on the donations list aswell, probably this would bring devcoin closer to compiled devcoin binaries

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November 10, 2012, 01:49:59 PM
 #877

Quote
..
Theoreticaly there are
7 000 000 000 People on this planet but just 21 000 000 Bitcoins means 0.003 BTC per Person
21 000 000 000 Devcoin / 7000 000 000 means 3 DVC per Person

Actually, there is constant generation, so there is no limit to the number of devcoins. The 21 billionth devcoin will be generated in about 21,000,000,000 devcoins / 200,000,000 devcoins/month = 105 months ~ 9 years.

Ok then I change my response to solved  Wink  Can't recall where I saw it but this is not much different than that of bitcoin's deflationary model anyway and this method seems superior in the long run for the following reasons:
1) Since generation rate is fixed eventually the loss/hoarded rate will on average normalize with the generation rate **once an economic ecosystem is built up around devcoin
2) The counter-argument often given by bitcoiners is that decimal places can be shifted i.e. 0.00000001 --> 0.000000001 (extra 0 in there) as the smallest unit... this is effectively the same as uncapped coins except that in the devcoin model the coins are fairly distributed as new coins always and in the bitcoiners counter argument to this problem the "new" coins are distributed only to existing holders.

Does the miner/dev coin distribution ratio remain constant?  It might be nice to see this as somewhat dynamic so that when projects being funded are low more of the reward goes to miners, right now it seems that projects are funded ?perpetually? even if they are not active or complete (my understanding of this feature is low admittedly so this is little more than a fact finding question)

With all that said, I still see some value in halving the reward, just not to 0... let's say from 1000/1 bitcoin ratio to say a 10/1 bitcoin ratio (based on current 50 bitcoin reward) over time but it's a semi-moot point relating to my reason 1.

Unthinkingbit
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November 10, 2012, 06:40:20 PM
 #878

Does the miner/dev coin distribution ratio remain constant?

Yes.

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It might be nice to see this as somewhat dynamic so that when projects being funded are low more of the reward goes to miners, right now it seems that projects are funded ?perpetually? even if they are not active or complete (my understanding of this feature is low admittedly so this is little more than a fact finding question)

Funding proportion within the 90% going to developers changes because bounties are awarded, and because the number of weighted words written on devtome each month varies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/tomecount.csv

Projects are only funded as long as they are under active development. I look over the projects every few months and if I don't see any development I message them asking for a progress report. If I don't receive an adequate answer, they're dropped, for example:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1325546#msg1325546

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November 10, 2012, 07:07:06 PM
 #879

Where can I go to see what generation share is currently in process?

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
Unthinkingbit
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November 11, 2012, 03:38:09 AM
 #880

Where can I go to see what generation share is currently in process?

The easiest way is to download the devcoin-qt client:
https://github.com/knotwork/old-devcoin-qt

In that client you'll see payments from generation. If you can not install that on your system, then you can look for your devcoin address:
1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3

in the round 16 receiver file:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/receiver_16.csv

Counting from zero in the receiver file, your address is line 3. Round 16 starts on block 16 * 4,000 = 64,000. You'll see your generation share in block 64,003 in a block explorer:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Devcoin_Block_Explorer

In Icoin's block explorer:
http://glari.ch:2750/chain/Devcoin

The link to the 64,003 block is:
http://glari.ch:2750/block/bd6f7c396cd01e8a713a0075757c266198d340b253cd098a52afdee00257f95e

The payment to you for 22,500 devcoins can be seen in the generation row of that block. Since there are 47 receiver lines in round 16, you'll see your next payment in block 64,050:
http://glari.ch:2750/block/a2888d064129a0e80d4490ea5bef55d25afd4ae8b6230c860e7ccda8a110853c

and then in block 64,097, 64,144, etc.. Round 16 lasts until block 67,999.

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