Bitmain launches the Z9 Equihash miner

[adaseb]

I am really upset, how they are treating batch 1 customers. I would rather get a second miner with batch 2 than two soon to be expired coupons. I submitted a ticket to them asking for this and will write on twitter. I think everybody, who is upset about this should do that. Maybe they will change their policy for batch 1 owners, if they get enough pressure.

This is nothing.

Back in the day Bitcoin ASIC manufactures would do much worse like take a pre-order and make a whole bunch of ASICs and coincidentally the price of BTC shot up... then of all a sudden shipping delays started.

They would mine for months... and then ship them.

A few manufactures comes to mind... Bitmain wasn't one of them.

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[Longsnowsm]

Diff is already climbing not just on equihash, but scrypt and sha256 coins... So "someone" has miners capable of making money in this flat market while profitability is crashing.  That can only mean new hardware at this point, and it isn't anything consumers can get their hands on.  I think they are already mining the next gen and we will hear about it probably next month. 

Then like was just stated it will probably be a pre-order.  By the time the miners actually ship to consumers the diff has already climbed 30% and you are hoping to make ROI on first batch gear.  This is all pretty depressing at the moment.

[bones261]

I am really upset, how they are treating batch 1 customers. I would rather get a second miner with batch 2 than two soon to be expired coupons. I submitted a ticket to them asking for this and will write on twitter. I think everybody, who is upset about this should do that. Maybe they will change their policy for batch 1 owners, if they get enough pressure.

This is nothing.

Back in the day Bitcoin ASIC manufactures would do much worse like take a pre-order and make a whole bunch of ASICs and coincidentally the price of BTC shot up... then of all a sudden shipping delays started.

They would mine for months... and then ship them.

A few manufactures comes to mind... Bitmain wasn't one of them.

Was this what was going on with Butterfly Labs?

Also, there was GAW who strung people out with their cloud mining service, to culminate in the XPY scam.

[adaseb]

I am really upset, how they are treating batch 1 customers. I would rather get a second miner with batch 2 than two soon to be expired coupons. I submitted a ticket to them asking for this and will write on twitter. I think everybody, who is upset about this should do that. Maybe they will change their policy for batch 1 owners, if they get enough pressure.

This is nothing.

Back in the day Bitcoin ASIC manufactures would do much worse like take a pre-order and make a whole bunch of ASICs and coincidentally the price of BTC shot up... then of all a sudden shipping delays started.

They would mine for months... and then ship them.

A few manufactures comes to mind... Bitmain wasn't one of them.

Was this what was going on with Butterfly Labs?

Also, there was GAW who strung people out with their cloud mining service, to culminate in the XPY scam.

Butterfly Labs was one of them. Another bad one was KnCMiner with their Neptunes and Titans.

Here is a good article that sums up what happened pretty much

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/6833047/bitcoin-conspiracy-theorists-vindicated-as-ftc-shuts-down-butterfly-labs


Basically like 20,000 orders weren't filled by over a year waiting time. And even if you got the gear... it was a door stop.

And they played games like sending ASICs to certain individuals on the forum and paying them off.

[KaydenC]

http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/26.html

Innosilicon A9, 50k sols, $9999, 620W. It's twice as efficient as Z9, though less price/performance if you consider the $250 x2 coupons we were given.

Batch 2 ship Aug 15, which will beat bitmain's 2nd batch too. Given that $400 coupons can be found for $200, the Z9 is ~$650 for batch 2 and innosilicon needs to sell at $3250 or less in batch 2 to beat Z9's price/perf.

Well it's only 2.5x the efficiency, not as bad as Siacoin's A3 to S11 situation. But it's a generation jump and will be significant when equihash mining matures.

[martyroz]

http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/26.html

Innosilicon A9, 50k sols, $9999, 620W. It's twice as efficient as Z9, though less price/performance if you consider the $250 x2 coupons we were given.

Batch 2 ship Aug 15, which will beat bitmain's 2nd batch too. Given that $400 coupons can be found for $200, the Z9 is ~$650 for batch 2 and innosilicon needs to sell at $3250 or less in batch 2 to beat Z9's price/perf.

Well it's only 2.5x the efficiency, not as bad as Siacoin's A3 to S11 situation. But it's a generation jump and will be significant when equihash mining matures.

$10,000 outlay for $155 - $165 per day
shipping in TWO DAYS? daym

[Manu84]

damn

my _only_ concern was that innosilicon, or halong show up with equihash asics..
 

620W is pretty good.

well, lets see how this will work out..

[leowonderful]

A more approximate W/Sol estimate would be 0.0124W/Sol for the new A9 versus 0.0266W/Sol for the old Z9 Mini if anyone's wondering, and there's a 50-day difference at the absolute worst shipping date of June 25th (minus shipping days, so around 47-48 for most) from the first batch of the A9 to the next batch of Z9 Minis being shipped out, and that is quite a bit of time to mine with the A9. I expect Bitmain might release their full-size Z9s between this timeframe or they might just keep their prices the same/ lower prices on the Z9. In the long run the efficiency gain of the A9 will definitely come into play, but the 100-unit MOQ's still a big impediment to us regular miners.

[Longsnowsm]

It would seem to me that the coins on this algo now have the ammunition needed to get their communities behind the idea of a fork.  Sadly I don't think that is a solution, but a temp work around until someone can come up with a better solution.  Bitmain about to start shipping the Z9 full size and now Inno dropping this big boy into the mix now makes this all pretty questionable.

[tromp]

In the long run the efficiency gain of the A9 will definitely come into play

There is no long run, with most coins moving away from (200,9) Equihash, including Zcash by end of year...

EDIT: I should prepend that statement with a big IMO (In my opinion). I'm expecting Zcash to change PoW and stop supporting the old parameters, but nothing is decided at this point.

[Sandal_Hat]

http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/26.html

Innosilicon A9, 50k sols, $9999, 620W. It's twice as efficient as Z9, though less price/performance if you consider the $250 x2 coupons we were given.

Batch 2 ship Aug 15, which will beat bitmain's 2nd batch too. Given that $400 coupons can be found for $200, the Z9 is ~$650 for batch 2 and innosilicon needs to sell at $3250 or less in batch 2 to beat Z9's price/perf.

Well it's only 2.5x the efficiency, not as bad as Siacoin's A3 to S11 situation. But it's a generation jump and will be significant when equihash mining matures.

Woah but sales price at $9,999 makes no sense. I guess it is on a lower number node? This reminds me of the ant D3 miner. The ant Z9 is a ant D3 and the inno A9 is a dash A5. The A5 Dash was sold for 10k and buyers got it few months later instead of on time. The ant D3 was shipped fast but so many were sold that no one broke even....

I hope u guys think hard here.

[adaseb]

http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/26.html

Innosilicon A9, 50k sols, $9999, 620W. It's twice as efficient as Z9, though less price/performance if you consider the $250 x2 coupons we were given.

Batch 2 ship Aug 15, which will beat bitmain's 2nd batch too. Given that $400 coupons can be found for $200, the Z9 is ~$650 for batch 2 and innosilicon needs to sell at $3250 or less in batch 2 to beat Z9's price/perf.

Well it's only 2.5x the efficiency, not as bad as Siacoin's A3 to S11 situation. But it's a generation jump and will be significant when equihash mining matures.

Woah but sales price at $9,999 makes no sense. I guess it is on a lower number node? This reminds me of the ant D3 miner. The ant Z9 is a ant D3 and the inno A9 is a dash A5. The A5 Dash was sold for 10k and buyers got it few months later instead of on time. The ant D3 was shipped fast but so many were sold that no one broke even....

I hope u guys think hard here.

I have a feeling that if you are some large whale with a farm and you send an inquiry they will probably give you like a discount if you pay right away.

If paying by BTC they probably give you another discount.

Hence at face value it's hard to tell what price these miners are actually going for

[Sandal_Hat]

http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/26.html

Innosilicon A9, 50k sols, $9999, 620W. It's twice as efficient as Z9, though less price/performance if you consider the $250 x2 coupons we were given.

Batch 2 ship Aug 15, which will beat bitmain's 2nd batch too. Given that $400 coupons can be found for $200, the Z9 is ~$650 for batch 2 and innosilicon needs to sell at $3250 or less in batch 2 to beat Z9's price/perf.

Well it's only 2.5x the efficiency, not as bad as Siacoin's A3 to S11 situation. But it's a generation jump and will be significant when equihash mining matures.

Woah but sales price at $9,999 makes no sense. I guess it is on a lower number node? This reminds me of the ant D3 miner. The ant Z9 is a ant D3 and the inno A9 is a dash A5. The A5 Dash was sold for 10k and buyers got it few months later instead of on time. The ant D3 was shipped fast but so many were sold that no one broke even....

I hope u guys think hard here.

I have a feeling that if you are some large whale with a farm and you send an inquiry they will probably give you like a discount if you pay right away.

If paying by BTC they probably give you another discount.

Hence at face value it's hard to tell what price these miners are actually going for

Another thing to note is that inno did not ship those A5 dash units on time then. They shipped it alot later, when difficulty has risen alot. I am a little suspicious since they can ship quickly while bitmain spent a few weeks taking orders. U should go check the dash thread. In general, from wat i read, inno support is pretty bad.

[Longsnowsm]

Woah but sales price at $9,999 makes no sense. I guess it is on a lower number node? This reminds me of the ant D3 miner. The ant Z9 is a ant D3 and the inno A9 is a dash A5. The A5 Dash was sold for 10k and buyers got it few months later instead of on time. The ant D3 was shipped fast but so many were sold that no one broke even....

I hope u guys think hard here.

That is exactly what looks like it about to happen here.  The D3 nightmare all over again.  Only people that might make it out with their skin is the first batch, and that is a big maybe if you ask me....

[OurManInHavana]

When batch-one went up for sale I believe WTM said $40/day. It's now 5 weeks later and closer to $30/day. By the time most of batch-one gets tossed in the mail in 3 weeks it could be closer to $25/day? That would put ROI between 3-4 months. Even if batch-two arrived in Sept at around $15/day that would still be about 3x what GPUs pay-out at 300w - so batch-two could ROI in 2018.

But that's a complete guess on the daily returns, and is assuming ZEN+ZEC are both still around by the end year to prop up the current Equihash algo. Cross your fingers!

[greyday]

When batch-one went up for sale I believe WTM said $40/day. It's now 5 weeks later and closer to $30/day. By the time most of batch-one gets tossed in the mail in 3 weeks it could be closer to $25/day? That would put ROI between 3-4 months. Even if batch-two arrived in Sept at around $15/day that would still be about 3x what GPUs pay-out at 300w - so batch-two could ROI in 2018.

But that's a complete guess on the daily returns, and is assuming ZEN+ZEC are both still around by the end year to prop up the current Equihash algo. Cross your fingers!

So far I believe Komodo is the only one who has said they're definitely not forking.

[TheronB]

When batch-one went up for sale I believe WTM said $40/day. It's now 5 weeks later and closer to $30/day. By the time most of batch-one gets tossed in the mail in 3 weeks it could be closer to $25/day? That would put ROI between 3-4 months. Even if batch-two arrived in Sept at around $15/day that would still be about 3x what GPUs pay-out at 300w - so batch-two could ROI in 2018.

But that's a complete guess on the daily returns, and is assuming ZEN+ZEC are both still around by the end year to prop up the current Equihash algo. Cross your fingers!

Being able to OC quite high will definitely help, too.

Plus the market is low now, so real profits will be almost double when the bull returns assuming you hold or convert to BTC.

[poolway]

It will be the same, like X3 and A3. Proffit only for bitmain, and you get bare metal..

[shaninium]

Woah but sales price at $9,999 makes no sense. I guess it is on a lower number node? This reminds me of the ant D3 miner. The ant Z9 is a ant D3 and the inno A9 is a dash A5. The A5 Dash was sold for 10k and buyers got it few months later instead of on time. The ant D3 was shipped fast but so many were sold that no one broke even....

I hope u guys think hard here.

That is exactly what looks like it about to happen here.  The D3 nightmare all over again.  Only people that might make it out with their skin is the first batch, and that is a big maybe if you ask me....

At least these use less power, that might not make it as bad, and hopefully at least some d3 buyers have learnt their lesson.

[poolway]

At least these use less power, that might not make it as bad, and hopefully at least some d3 buyers have learnt their lesson.

A3 buyers were the most deceived.