[ANN][GRA] Graincoin - New PoW/PoS coin | Fast, secure | Version 1.5 Released!

[cryptomining]

maybe we go POS only

What ?!

Is this yet another scam coin by muddafudda ?

He rigged COL that way aswell...

Hippie Tech, please stop the fud, I saw you have done this in all the threads. Please help the community in a positive way.

Considering the circumstances, I have every right to raise alarm bells.

And now that I've seen this ..  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361887

I will close the giveaway thread. It may re-open if the PoW blocks can be regenerated later. The giveaways have been sent to all the eligible miners to #574.

Please explain how a PoS only coin is good for the community.

Was there anyone else involved with GRA's code ?

more fud, the thread you listed is from the original giveaway, no one has posted in 8 days in that thread, the message reflects the attack/fork.

the coin is not PoS only, no more fud plz.

[1714668349]

1714668349

[1714668349]

1714668349

[mkimid]

maybe we go POS only

What ?!

Is this yet another scam coin by muddafudda ?

He rigged COL that way aswell...

Hippie Tech, please stop the fud, I saw you have done this in all the threads. Please help the community in a positive way.

Considering the circumstances, I have every right to raise alarm bells.

And now that I've seen this ..  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361887

I will close the giveaway thread. It may re-open if the PoW blocks can be regenerated later. The giveaways have been sent to all the eligible miners to #574.

Please explain how a PoS only coin is good for the community.

Was there anyone else involved with GRA's code ?

more fud, the thread you listed is from the original giveaway, no one has posted in 8 days in that thread, the message reflects the attack/fork.

the coin is not PoS only, no more fud plz.

The fact, You are right absolutely, it is NOT PoS Only coin.
The reality, Did you checked the ratio between PoS and PoW ? even better than yesterday, but, little questionable

and,

Most important thing, This coin must have a kind of attractive things to the miner,
When this coin became more popular (much more miner)
It will have a chace to become a real market (become a real coin).
 
I believe, this coin is the one of best coins, I have no doubt,
but, I am thinking & thinking about "this coin is the one what the miner want to mine it"

[cryptomining]

maybe we go POS only

What ?!

Is this yet another scam coin by muddafudda ?

He rigged COL that way aswell...

Hippie Tech, please stop the fud, I saw you have done this in all the threads. Please help the community in a positive way.

Considering the circumstances, I have every right to raise alarm bells.

And now that I've seen this ..  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361887

I will close the giveaway thread. It may re-open if the PoW blocks can be regenerated later. The giveaways have been sent to all the eligible miners to #574.

Please explain how a PoS only coin is good for the community.

Was there anyone else involved with GRA's code ?

more fud, the thread you listed is from the original giveaway, no one has posted in 8 days in that thread, the message reflects the attack/fork.

the coin is not PoS only, no more fud plz.

The fact, You are right absolutely, it is NOT PoS Only coin.
The reality, Did you checked the ratio between PoS and PoW ?

and,

Most important thing, This coin must have a kind of attractive things to the miner,
When this coin became more popular (much more miner)
It will have a chace to become a real market (become a real coin).
 
I believe, this coin is the one of best coins, I have no doubt,
but, I am thinking & thinking about "this coin is the one what the miner want to mine it"

no, i didn't check the ratio of pow/pos, pos and pow are working fine.  

[bosian]

The diff seems behave strangely for a few blocks (pretty high), then return to normal. Now the diff seems right. I don't know why it jumped so high at one point. Will keep watching it.

Hi, Bosian

How are you ?
I have capature a screen to explain what is happening now.

1. I am living in NJ, USA : EST TIME ZONE
    so, Please, just compare the minutes and seconds only (not hours)

2. in BFGMiner Screen
    The network speed is going up, and hit Diff 4
    and, keep couple of hours,
    and than, it is going down to Diff 1
    and, this process is keep doing again
    This kind of pattern is happen always, my means, each block will have the difference Diff,
    and, It affect on reject (?, maybe, I am not sure, just guess)
    and, it affect on stale (my means, the keep chaing of time... anyway, sorry for too stupid idea)

3. The networkhashs from Grain-QT 1.2 (actually, 1.1 also same)
    at block #60327,
    at block #60328,
    The hash rate has been decreased dramatically, and Diff also have been changed.
    Technically, something wrong
    it is hard to believe the actual network speed is changed like this

4. Check the time between Grain-QT 1.2 and Minder
    * I have used 1s scan time, and 1s logging time for miner
    * I have put, getminerinfo every 10 seconds, to find the changing point
    -> Actually, Miner Detect the change of diffculty much earler than QT
    -> The changing point from 4 to 1
         (in Miner)  xx:08:08
         (in QT)      xx:08:53
    -> I have thought, need one more block to update the current hashrate in QT, yes, it is right,
         but, sometime, it is happen over couple of blocks (After couple of new block detected on network message)
      
Anyway, I am not sure, what is the problem,
maybe, It is just my computer problem,
or maybe, it is just my network problem,
But, only happen in GrainCoin
I have tried to with QT1.1/1.2, Actually, when blockchain explorer has recovered, I have tracked block chains,
and, I found it is matched

and, I feel, there are too many PoS blocks via PoW
(the diff on screen and actual diff is too much difference and growing more and more)
I know it is a technical choice, but,
it makes less attactive for this coin for mining.
In fact, it is why there is not many miners interest on mining PoW/PoS type even it is much more advanced but too early to accepted in this area
(just my person opinion)




p/s : sorry for bothering you again, I like graincoin too much ~ that is why I have too many stupid question, please forgive me.

mkimid, thanks for your detailed analysis. I will do some more investigation and report back here.

[mkimid]

mkimid, thanks for your detailed analysis. I will do some more investigation and report back here.

Actually, today (from 4-6 hours ago),
It become very stable,
and the ratio between PoW and PoS,
the number of PoW block is much higher than PoS,
but, number of transactions between PoW and PoS are similar.
and PoW block time is between 30~40s
and Coinage is increased from 3.x to 4.x (because of PoW blocks are too much now?)
 
I feel,
when PoS blocks have generated too much,
the PoW block time suddenly streched 15-20 minutes,
and, Diff also shasking so much, 

Maybe when retarget Diff,
need to use some kind of linear interpolation.
At least,
miner will see the actual Diff,
and Hashrate.
if just use the timer gap betwen block (PoW and PoS mostly),
it should be happen mostly,

I have started the mining with 2Mh/s in the morning (after capture the screen)
I have got 4 accepted, 2 rejected, and 2 stales over 3 hours,
and than, I have stopped for two hours,
I got 5 acceptance, 0 rejected, and 0 stale over 2 hours (now)

Maybe I have to run more longer time frame to findout,

and coinblockchain.com/grain is not updating the block information from 300 blocks ago.


AND, can I have a question ?

in transaction windows, there are some coin addressed,
I guess it is address for the minded coin.
I have two addresses,
actually, it is keep change when get the mined coin.
Can I know what is this address ?

Anyway, Thank you for much for your answers

[bosian]

The diff adjusting code for Grain is the standard one from PPCoin, which is used by most pow/pos coins (with a few exceptions, such as Galaxycoin):

unsigned int GetNextTargetRequired(const CBlockIndex* pindexLast, bool fProofOfStake)
{
    CBigNum bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfWorkLimit;

    if(fProofOfStake)
    {
        bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfStakeLimit;
    }

    if (pindexLast == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // genesis block

    const CBlockIndex* pindexPrev = GetLastBlockIndex(pindexLast, fProofOfStake);
    if (pindexPrev->pprev == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // first block
    const CBlockIndex* pindexPrevPrev = GetLastBlockIndex(pindexPrev->pprev, fProofOfStake);
    if (pindexPrevPrev->pprev == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // second block

    int64 nActualSpacing = pindexPrev->GetBlockTime() - pindexPrevPrev->GetBlockTime();

    CBigNum bnNew;
    bnNew.SetCompact(pindexPrev->nBits);
    int64 nTargetSpacing = fProofOfStake? nStakeTargetSpacing : min(nTargetSpacingWorkMax, (int64) nStakeTargetSpacing * (1 + pindexLast->nHeight - pindexPrev->nHeight));
    int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;
    bnNew *= ((nInterval - 1) * nTargetSpacing + nActualSpacing + nActualSpacing);
    bnNew /= ((nInterval + 1) * nTargetSpacing);

    if (bnNew > bnTargetLimit)
        bnNew = bnTargetLimit;

    return bnNew.GetCompact();
}

When there are a lot of pos blocks, the pow block can be generated slower, but this is the normal behavior. The algorithm side I don't see issues. But sometimes I see the block time is out of sequence. This probably the reason why sometimes we see the diff behave very strangely. I don't know why/how the block time can become incorrect, maybe some network clock issue? I don't know now.

BTW, I saw some other pow/pos coin behave the same. For example, a few weeks ago, when I tried to mine Lucky7Coin, I see its diff very low, apparently the pos diff, and when I look into somewhat details, I found that the block time is completely wrong, which caused the diff adjusting algorithm to give wrong diffs (it has the same diff algo as PPCoin, I think).

[bosian]

mkimid, thanks for your detailed analysis. I will do some more investigation and report back here.

Actually, today (from 4-6 hours ago),
It become very stable,
and the ratio between PoW and PoS,
the number of PoW block is much higher than PoS,
but, number of transactions between PoW and PoS are similar.
and PoW block time is between 30~40s
and Coinage is increased from 3.x to 4.x (because of PoW blocks are too much now?)
 
I feel,
when PoS blocks have generated too much,
the PoW block time suddenly streched 15-20 minutes,
and, Diff also shasking so much, 

Maybe when retarget Diff,
need to use some kind of linear interpolation.
At least,
miner will see the actual Diff,
and Hashrate.
if just use the timer gap betwen block (PoW and PoS mostly),
it should be happen mostly,

I have started the mining with 2Mh/s in the morning (after capture the screen)
I have got 4 accepted, 2 rejected, and 2 stales over 3 hours,
and than, I have stopped for two hours,
I got 5 acceptance, 0 rejected, and 0 stale over 2 hours (now)

Maybe I have to run more longer time frame to findout,

and coinblockchain.com/grain is not updating the block information from 300 blocks ago.


AND, can I have a question ?

in transaction windows, there are some coin addressed,
I guess it is address for the minded coin.
I have two addresses,
actually, it is keep change when get the mined coin.
Can I know what is this address ?

Anyway, Thank you for much for your answers

When there are a lot more pos blocks, the pow interval increases, this is in the algo:

int64 nTargetSpacing = fProofOfStake? nStakeTargetSpacing : min(nTargetSpacingWorkMax, (int64) nStakeTargetSpacing * (1 + pindexLast->nHeight - pindexPrev->nHeight));

the target pow can go to as high as 12X normal. But that's very rare, you need something like at least 12 pos generated in between pow blocks.

The reason for this algo is to maintain the network not overly busy which could cause orphan issues. While there are less pos generated, pow returns to its normal target of 30sec.

[JL0z]

AND, can I have a question ?

in transaction windows, there are some coin addressed,
I guess it is address for the minded coin.
I have two addresses,
actually, it is keep change when get the mined coin.
Can I know what is this address ?

Hi - Happy New Year to All!

mkimid - Often clients will generate the mined coins from another address which is associated with your wallet.  Some clients will tend to use the same address or one of a small number of addresses, and other clients like the Networkcoin client will always generate a new address for the mined blocks.  I believe that these addresses are associated with your wallet private key, because I have experienced in other coins that if I generate a new address for receiving transactions, one of the addresses used for mined coins is used.  Then I find that the mined coins use another address and so on.

I was going to insert a screenshot here to illustrate, but for some reason, I can't work out how to do this.  The Peoplecoin client uses a few different addresses - there is no apparent order in which the addresses are used.  I have only solo-mined one block of Grain so cannot say what it will do with multiple blocks, but if you are seeing each mined block with a different address, then it might be safe to say that a new address will be used for each mined block - like Networkcoin.

[Jollyburner]

maybe some network clock issue? I don't know now.

that's very interesting, I was leaning towards the possibility that something was slowing things down. this could be the same effect, how is network clock calculated? from all the miners?

[mkimid]

When there are a lot more pos blocks, the pow interval increases, this is in the algo:

int64 nTargetSpacing = fProofOfStake? nStakeTargetSpacing : min(nTargetSpacingWorkMax, (int64) nStakeTargetSpacing * (1 + pindexLast->nHeight - pindexPrev->nHeight));

the target pow can go to as high as 12X normal. But that's very rare, you need something like at least 12 pos generated in between pow blocks.

The reason for this algo is to maintain the network not overly busy which could cause orphan issues. While there are less pos generated, pow returns to its normal target of 30sec.

Thank you for the information, maybe it can be a good example,

 Block # 60518  PoW

 Block # 60517  PoW 16:40:18 Diff 3.464
             : 34 PoS blocks over 16:55 ( 30sec)

 Block # 60482  PoW 16:23:23 Diff 5.343
             : 14 PoS blocks over 10:53 ( 43sec)

 Block # 60476  PoW  16:12:30 Diff 2.068
             : 3 Pos blocks over  0:29 (7sec) <------- 3 PoS Blocks are generated within 29 seconds, it makes a trouble

 Block # 60463  PoW  16:12:01 Diff 1.783

Technically,
it is running perfectly, without question,

In the code, target diff is decided by  
     TimeSpan between PoW includes PoS
     So, PoW Diff has affected by PoS                                       <--------- It is correct,
     But, if PoS changed too much with small numbers of block  <---------- Diff will be changed more dramatically,
     But, if PoS generated too much betwen PoW block              <---------- Diff will be stabled, BUT, miner will complain about it ^^

Just my guess, some kind of conflicted concept here
      PoS block has prepared to solved quickly [reduce the time factor]
      PoW block has prepared to be mined periodically [adjusted/fixed time interval]

If I am, I will try to adjust the number of PoS between PoW to match the target block time,
and reduce the coinage via hashrate increasing,
but, limit the number of PoS block between PoW as 12 or some number,
and, Adjust Diff for PoW,

Anyway, the software itself running good, actually, there is no issues.
In fact, I have trakced couple of pages of block lists, and confirmed.

Just only issue is the managing of PoS block is an issue,
it is unstable, and it shaking whole timeframe.
Especially, Grain retarget Diff by each PoW blocks,

Anyway, PoS generating timming is a kind of trouble maker

[mkimid]

Lol wish this could be traded already i mean this is older then most the newer coins and its still not on an exchange...

It will takes more time to become a pubic coin,

The current network hashrate            60~80Mh/s  (gra.forkpoo.com, ..............)
The current miner                             < 100 peoples

If this coin will become a famous,

Personally, I think, Network hashrate should be higher than 300Mh/s for the stable operation
Number of miner shoudl be more than 500 peoples for the effective trading activity

But, It is very difficult to make it sucess in case of PoW/PoS coins
Because of the numers which are shown in miner is not same as PoW only coin.
Diff number is much lower than PoW only coin,
it makes Miner misunderstand they are losting time,
and, Miner worry about the lost of share due to the stale/reject/orphan

Gamble/Lottery Coins are more famous now.
Because of the personal miners are tired to mine the coin,
Hidden big chance give to them a hope to get a big money,

Huge reward coins (ea, doge/moon) also famous now
Because of they can receive a big number of coins even they are in the pool
and, It also have a big range of variation
it makes them to think, they got something big,

GrainCoin has two properties, BUT, ?

[nowwhat]

Gonna give this a try, looks interesting enough. You never know, maybe I'll get lucky.

98R8bijhudBsizSusSbgeDJTr4tShTGhiX

[Hippie Tech]

The diff adjusting code for Grain is the standard one from PPCoin, which is used by most pow/pos coins (with a few exceptions, such as Galaxycoin):

unsigned int GetNextTargetRequired(const CBlockIndex* pindexLast, bool fProofOfStake)
{
    CBigNum bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfWorkLimit;

    if(fProofOfStake)
    {
        bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfStakeLimit;
    }

    if (pindexLast == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // genesis block

    const CBlockIndex* pindexPrev = GetLastBlockIndex(pindexLast, fProofOfStake);
    if (pindexPrev->pprev == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // first block
    const CBlockIndex* pindexPrevPrev = GetLastBlockIndex(pindexPrev->pprev, fProofOfStake);
    if (pindexPrevPrev->pprev == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // second block

    int64 nActualSpacing = pindexPrev->GetBlockTime() - pindexPrevPrev->GetBlockTime();

    CBigNum bnNew;
    bnNew.SetCompact(pindexPrev->nBits);
    int64 nTargetSpacing = fProofOfStake? nStakeTargetSpacing : min(nTargetSpacingWorkMax, (int64) nStakeTargetSpacing * (1 + pindexLast->nHeight - pindexPrev->nHeight));
    int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;
    bnNew *= ((nInterval - 1) * nTargetSpacing + nActualSpacing + nActualSpacing);
    bnNew /= ((nInterval + 1) * nTargetSpacing);

    if (bnNew > bnTargetLimit)
        bnNew = bnTargetLimit;

    return bnNew.GetCompact();
}

When there are a lot of pos blocks, the pow block can be generated slower, but this is the normal behavior. The algorithm side I don't see issues. But sometimes I see the block time is out of sequence. This probably the reason why sometimes we see the diff behave very strangely. I don't know why/how the block time can become incorrect, maybe some network clock issue? I don't know now.

BTW, I saw some other pow/pos coin behave the same. For example, a few weeks ago, when I tried to mine Lucky7Coin, I see its diff very low, apparently the pos diff, and when I look into somewhat details, I found that the block time is completely wrong, which caused the diff adjusting algorithm to give wrong diffs (it has the same diff algo as PPCoin, I think).

Don't know ?

Did YOU copy n paste/ code this coin ?

If not, then who ?

[wayniac30]

Great coin been voting to get on cryptsy daily and mining 24/7 have a great 2014 guys!

[cryptomining]

Lol wish this could be traded already i mean this is older then most the newer coins and its still not on an exchange...

im enjoying the low diff, soon as it hits cryptsy, coinmarketcap, coinwarz, and coinex the diff will be 50-250.  Load your silos now while you still can.

[mkimid]

The diff adjusting code for Grain is the standard one from PPCoin, which is used by most pow/pos coins (with a few exceptions, such as Galaxycoin):

unsigned int GetNextTargetRequired(const CBlockIndex* pindexLast, bool fProofOfStake)
{
    CBigNum bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfWorkLimit;

    if(fProofOfStake)
    {
        bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfStakeLimit;
    }

    if (pindexLast == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // genesis block

    const CBlockIndex* pindexPrev = GetLastBlockIndex(pindexLast, fProofOfStake);
    if (pindexPrev->pprev == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // first block
    const CBlockIndex* pindexPrevPrev = GetLastBlockIndex(pindexPrev->pprev, fProofOfStake);
    if (pindexPrevPrev->pprev == NULL)
        return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // second block

    int64 nActualSpacing = pindexPrev->GetBlockTime() - pindexPrevPrev->GetBlockTime();

    CBigNum bnNew;
    bnNew.SetCompact(pindexPrev->nBits);
    int64 nTargetSpacing = fProofOfStake? nStakeTargetSpacing : min(nTargetSpacingWorkMax, (int64) nStakeTargetSpacing * (1 + pindexLast->nHeight - pindexPrev->nHeight));
    int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;
    bnNew *= ((nInterval - 1) * nTargetSpacing + nActualSpacing + nActualSpacing);
    bnNew /= ((nInterval + 1) * nTargetSpacing);

    if (bnNew > bnTargetLimit)
        bnNew = bnTargetLimit;

    return bnNew.GetCompact();
}

When there are a lot of pos blocks, the pow block can be generated slower, but this is the normal behavior. The algorithm side I don't see issues. But sometimes I see the block time is out of sequence. This probably the reason why sometimes we see the diff behave very strangely. I don't know why/how the block time can become incorrect, maybe some network clock issue? I don't know now.

BTW, I saw some other pow/pos coin behave the same. For example, a few weeks ago, when I tried to mine Lucky7Coin, I see its diff very low, apparently the pos diff, and when I look into somewhat details, I found that the block time is completely wrong, which caused the diff adjusting algorithm to give wrong diffs (it has the same diff algo as PPCoin, I think).

Don't know ?

Did YOU copy n paste/ code this coin ?

If not, then who ?

I think, it is the actual code,

Virtually, PoS blocks can not affect on the diff of PoW, and, PoS blocks can not affect on the Diff of PoS.
But, PoS and PoW should be combined on the stream of block. 

When calculate new Diff of PoW, it can reference the previous PoW block.
 
If want to generate the PoW block within The block time, just can use the time span between PoWs.
If want to generate the PoW/PoS block on the block time, when calculate PoW, the time interval of PoS should be regard as the block time because of the block time of PoS will be adjusted with Diff of PoS. reversely, the block time of PoS should be adjusted with the similar way of PoW.

Base on this concept, PoW will be generated
And Number of PoS between can be adjusted with its Diff.

And, when adjust the block time every block,
We should understand
      1sec out of 30sec -> 3.3% of variation.
      Due to the random lucky/no-lucky blocks, the block time can be changed dramatically,
      The weighted linear interpolation for Diff calculation is a mandatory,
      And, limited filtering also important


 

[mkimid]

Lol wish this could be traded already i mean this is older then most the newer coins and its still not on an exchange...

im enjoying the low diff, soon as it hits cryptsy, coinmarketcap, coinwarz, and coinex the diff will be 50-250.  Load your silos now while you still can.

I agree with you,
if not a factory miner, this time is the best ~

 

[SanketBerde]

is there any trading site or thread for this coin yet ?

[Illusmare]

is there any trading site or thread for this coin yet ?

Not yet, hopefully soonish.

[Jollyburner]

is there any trading site or thread for this coin yet ?

I think everyone just loves it so much were all keeping it.