[ANN][GRA] Graincoin - New PoW/PoS coin | Fast, secure | Version 1.5 Released!

[CryptoChomper]

The bonus payments for the blocks found up to 130000 have been received and paid to the miners, following payments made;

UserID : Amount
ID #  2 : 18956.50000
ID #  4 : 3144.00000
ID #  9 : 9054.12773
ID #  7 : 35.27000
ID # 10 : 27954.88000
ID #  3 : 76.50000

Payment for User 11 is pending as no wallet address has been provided, please update your account to receive payment
ID # 11 : 10.29

Please note payments have been processed manually so will not show within the site.

CryptoChomper

[JL0z]

I hadn't run my Grain client for nearly two weeks - when I ran my client, it eventually sync'ed, but was still many thousands of blocks behind.  Then I realized that I was running the old 1.3 version.  I downloaded this 1.4 version but it still wouldn't sync so have decided to reload the blockchain from scratch.  Hopefully my coins will come back when the blockchain has fully downloaded - all my transactions now show unconfirmed (160K+ GRA).  The old client must have gone onto the wrong fork.

All is good now.  When the sync finished with the 1.4 client - my balance showed 50K+ but a lot of other transactions were confirmed, so ran the repairwallet - got me back the other 110K+ plus the other transaction that I was checking on - so everything is fine now!

[slurm]

100K GRAs bounty for any shops/services/games accept Grain!

:O Yipes mate that's almost more GRA than I have been able to mine with the puny hashrate I've put at it, and I've been mining since day 1. haha

Might take you up on that game/service building offer if I get some extra time this week.

[suncoastbuddy]

Got my bonus payments from Forkpool... Thanks

[bosian]

One more shop accepting Graincoin

ThanksBitcoin - a Bitcoin shop:
http://www.thanksbitcoin.com

[Oldminer]

You guys should petition https://www.atomic-trade.com to add Graincoin. Apparently their thinking of removing DOGE..

[almightyruler]

A few hours ago something odd happened to my other wallet where I started solo mining.
I arrived home and had a notification about a transaction of about 1600 coins, checked cgminer and had about 30000 Accepted shares. I only had 1  transaction prior to this so the wallet showed only one transaction in Recent Transactions but showed 2 in Number of Transactions.
Wallet was synced.
Tried to do a -repairwallet and did nothing. Then -salvagewallet and number of transactions lowered to 1.
Did a -rescan and stayed at 1 transaction.
Now, what did happen to the other transaction? Is there a record I can check based on my wallet address?

These are supposed to be orphaned blocks. They will occaisionally remain visible on the ledger with a "?". 90% of the time they simply vanish, leaving little to no time for one to snag the TXid.

The only way to tell if you have had any, is to compare the TX count with cgminer's tally.

Try 'listtransactions' in the debug console. That will show all orphans.

I've noticed that the orphan count has increased significantly today. It seems to be proof-of-stake blocks overriding recently mined proof-of-work blocks. I had an immature block at 7 confirms which was then invalidated (to orphan) by a PoS block.

Cloudcoin was notoriously difficult to mine because someone with a lot of coin was generating PoS blocks which would override PoW blocks. Sometimes the correction was more than 50 blocks, which is massive. That means a confirmed mined block - funds which you would expect to be cleared after 50 network confirms - becomes an orphan.

From my quick monitoring of GRA it looks like the same thing is happening, just at a smaller scale. It will only get worse.

[almightyruler]

Here's a simple example of a PoS block overriding a PoW block:

1. blocks: 142842 (+1) moneysupply: 759723463.90463 (+1738) difficulty: 1.04802341 (+0.03811464)
2. blocks: 142842 (0) moneysupply: 759721727.06696 (-1736.8376719952) difficulty: 1.00990877 (-0.03811464)

In line 1, the block count increases by 1, and money supply goes up by 1738. In line 2, the block count stays constant (ie one or more blocks at the end have been replaced), and money supply goes down by -1736.8

In this case, a mined PoW block of 1738 was overridden (orphaned) and replaced by a PoS block of 1.162328

1738 PoW block won
1738 PoW block invalidated (orphaned)
1.162328 PoS block is the new block end

This one is more complicated:

1. blocks: 142836 (+1) moneysupply: 759721720.41998 (+1.3226020336151) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)
2. blocks: 142837 (+1) moneysupply: 759721721.50217 (+1.082190990448) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)
3. blocks: 142840 (+3) moneysupply: 759725040.59505 (+3319.0928759575) difficulty: 0.81222269 (-0.19768608)
4. blocks: 142839 (-1) moneysupply: 759721723.55806 (-3317.0369869471) difficulty: 1.00990877 (+0.19768608)
5. blocks: 142840 (+1) moneysupply: 759721724.95943 (+1.4013689756393) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)
6. blocks: 142841 (+1) moneysupply: 759721725.90463 (+0.94520497322083) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)

In line 3, you can see that 3 blocks suddenly appear, most likely a new chain (note the different difficulty for that line only) with a couple of PoW blocks on it. Then on line 4 there's a reversal which takes away almost all of the funds... again a PoS block overriding PoW.

I expect these corrections will become bigger as people accumulate more funds, which means more orphaned PoW blocks. The massive corrections on Cloudcoin/CDC would sometimes invalidate tens of minutes worth of mining.

[mkimid]

Here's a simple example of a PoS block overriding a PoW block:

1. blocks: 142842 (+1) moneysupply: 759723463.90463 (+1738) difficulty: 1.04802341 (+0.03811464)
2. blocks: 142842 (0) moneysupply: 759721727.06696 (-1736.8376719952) difficulty: 1.00990877 (-0.03811464)

In line 1, the block count increases by 1, and money supply goes up by 1738. In line 2, the block count stays constant (ie one or more blocks at the end have been replaced), and money supply goes down by -1736.8

In this case, a mined PoW block of 1738 was overridden (orphaned) and replaced by a PoS block of 1.162328

1738 PoW block won
1738 PoW block invalidated (orphaned)
1.162328 PoS block is the new block end

This one is more complicated:

1. blocks: 142836 (+1) moneysupply: 759721720.41998 (+1.3226020336151) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)
2. blocks: 142837 (+1) moneysupply: 759721721.50217 (+1.082190990448) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)
3. blocks: 142840 (+3) moneysupply: 759725040.59505 (+3319.0928759575) difficulty: 0.81222269 (-0.19768608)
4. blocks: 142839 (-1) moneysupply: 759721723.55806 (-3317.0369869471) difficulty: 1.00990877 (+0.19768608)
5. blocks: 142840 (+1) moneysupply: 759721724.95943 (+1.4013689756393) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)
6. blocks: 142841 (+1) moneysupply: 759721725.90463 (+0.94520497322083) difficulty: 1.00990877 (0)

In line 3, you can see that 3 blocks suddenly appear, most likely a new chain (note the different difficulty for that line only) with a couple of PoW blocks on it. Then on line 4 there's a reversal which takes away almost all of the funds... again a PoS block overriding PoW.

I expect these corrections will become bigger as people accumulate more funds, which means more orphaned PoW blocks. The massive corrections on Cloudcoin/CDC would sometimes invalidate tens of minutes worth of mining.

Yep, I agree with your research, actually, i have felt same thing, and the other PoW/PoS coins have similar issue. It is the most difficult puzzle

[almightyruler]

Yep, I agree with your research, actually, i have felt same thing, and the other PoW/PoS coins have similar issue. It is the most difficult puzzle

If it's anything like CDC it's because PoS blocks have a huge amount of trust compared to a PoW block. A single PoS block with sufficient trust could wipe out tens of PoW blocks with lower cumulative trust.

[almightyruler]

In the past 2 hours I've found 9 blocks, worth 14338.12 GRA, but they've all been orphaned. Net gain: 0.0 GRA

[timerland]

Is PoS generation stable? I heard some coins (eg COL) where PoS blocks the normal minted blocks...

[almightyruler]

Is PoS generation stable? I heard some coins (eg COL) where PoS blocks the normal minted blocks...

That sounds like it may be the negative difficulty retargeting issue, which hit several coins (ORB, MPL, CDC, ADT, ...). The problem happens when a new block has a timestamp that is lower than the previous block. The next difficulty recalculation fails, which stops normal PoW mining working at that point. PoS generation continues. Note that it is a bug/oversight which causes the issue, not PoS.

The issue I'm seeing today with GRA is caused by PoS, where a new PoS block can effectively chop off one or more PoW blocks from the end of the chain, invalidating the miner's efforts.

[mkimid]

In the past 2 hours I've found 9 blocks, worth 14338.12 GRA, but they've all been orphaned. Net gain: 0.0 GRA

Just personal guess, if find a block wait while PoS, and, try to put into the block,
There are some time gap, and duplicated or more miners try at once,
Some time lost, some time win,
Most if situation, lost to the big pool ~
Just guess ^^

Sad to hear that,
Wish your luck ~

[almightyruler]

In the past 2 hours I've found 9 blocks, worth 14338.12 GRA, but they've all been orphaned. Net gain: 0.0 GRA

Just personal guess, if find a block wait while PoS, and, try to put into the block,
There are some time gap, and duplicated or more miners try at once,
Some time lost, some time win,

Yes, that's a normal orphan, where two or more miners find the same block almost simultaneously. That is a clear conflict where only one miner can win, and it is usually resolved quickly (not 7 confirmations later!)

In this case most of the orphans are created by a PoS block minted a little later (like 2 or 3 minutes) that wipes out the PoW mined block(s). PoS fighting PoW.

[mkimid]

In the past 2 hours I've found 9 blocks, worth 14338.12 GRA, but they've all been orphaned. Net gain: 0.0 GRA

Just personal guess, if find a block wait while PoS, and, try to put into the block,
There are some time gap, and duplicated or more miners try at once,
Some time lost, some time win,

Yes, that's a normal orphan, where two or more miners find the same block almost simultaneously. That is a clear conflict where only one miner can win, and it is usually resolved quickly (not 7 confirmations later!)

In this case most of the orphans are created by a PoS block minted a little later (like 2 or 3 minutes) that wipes out the PoW mined block(s). PoS fighting PoW.

Yes, you are right,
i have experienced also, after i mined a coin, and it is listed for couple of seconds, but, it is gone from list, and, some time it is report from QT, but, even not in list,
This cases are the mined coin is invalidated by the followed (or same time) PoS
And, normal orphans are listed while running QT.
Actually, i have experienced with the other coins also.
I just though that is orphan with PoS,
Anyway, it is not affect on the mining result (all have in same situation, and relatively lower number of coins that target, but, all miner in the similar condition) but higher affect on solo than Pool, i guess,
Anyway, that is happen in QT1.3 and reduced in QT 1.4 still there even lower

Update : i guess the dev team of this coin will find a better way to handle that issue, and, will become more advanced coin ^^; while improving, grain will be growing more ^^; we can keep checking this issue together ~

[timerland]

Is PoS generation stable? I heard some coins (eg COL) where PoS blocks the normal minted blocks...

That sounds like it may be the negative difficulty retargeting issue, which hit several coins (ORB, MPL, CDC, ADT, ...). The problem happens when a new block has a timestamp that is lower than the previous block. The next difficulty recalculation fails, which stops normal PoW mining working at that point. PoS generation continues. Note that it is a bug/oversight which causes the issue, not PoS.

The issue I'm seeing today with GRA is caused by PoS, where a new PoS block can effectively chop off one or more PoW blocks from the end of the chain, invalidating the miner's efforts.

Thanks for the info. I know there are problems with other coins. But this one I don't see issues. I am able to mine PoW blocks, and sometimes you see orphans but all coins you see orphans, this coin does not have many more. Both PoW and PoS works:
http://coinblockchain.com/grain/

[mkimid]

Is PoS generation stable? I heard some coins (eg COL) where PoS blocks the normal minted blocks...

That sounds like it may be the negative difficulty retargeting issue, which hit several coins (ORB, MPL, CDC, ADT, ...). The problem happens when a new block has a timestamp that is lower than the previous block. The next difficulty recalculation fails, which stops normal PoW mining working at that point. PoS generation continues. Note that it is a bug/oversight which causes the issue, not PoS.

The issue I'm seeing today with GRA is caused by PoS, where a new PoS block can effectively chop off one or more PoW blocks from the end of the chain, invalidating the miner's efforts.

Thanks for the info. I know there are problems with other coins. But this one I don't see issues. I am able to mine PoW blocks, and sometimes you see orphans but all coins you see orphans, this coin does not have many more. Both PoW and PoS works:
http://coinblockchain.com/grain/

Little bit difference with the orphans

[Galimore]

You guys should petition https://www.atomic-trade.com to add Graincoin. Apparently their thinking of removing DOGE..

I don't get why these smaller exchanges even bother keeping the really big coins on there. They should just take coins that hit cryptsy off and add newer ones to draw in new users. Doge doesn't need 10 tiny exchanges when it's doing millions of dollars a day in volume on cryptsy.

[tx42]

Graincoin OS X Wallet Binaries

I finally got around to putting together OS X wallet binaries for graincoin. Two are available:

OS X 10.7: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8rWObF4xz1YeERVc3cxeGJVLUE/edit?usp=sharing
OS X 10.9: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8rWObF4xz1Ya3c0bTlBel9hZkk/edit?usp=sharing

These binaries required changing the code in some places, so I'll put up a pull request soon at github.

The tiny icons for the binaries are the Graincoin symbol, ,  which seems to be endorsed by bosian and got favorite votes from myself and a couple of others in an informal poll. The symbol looks like this in a sentence:

     One bitcoin shouldn't go for any more than 80, IMO.

Note that I put a 4pt space between and the "80".

The symbol can be integrated into your posts using the following links:

10 pt (bitcointalk default)

Code:

[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img845/2950/eawg.png[/img]

12 pt :

Code:

[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img34/7349/oru5.png[/img]

14 pt

Code:

[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img24/6207/muuk.png[/img]

A high res version of is at http://imageshack.com/a/img607/4425/19du.png:

GRA, : 9AkuipbZfXaEjHmAaw3YA3ho9ZDWZC6TqG