mtgox.com has blocked my account with 45 000 USD in it!

[caveden]

Yes I do, I call most of scam victims scammers themselves. Play dumb isn't enough.
Let's say, I come to you and say you give me all your coins and tomorrow I'll give it back in double. Either I have a "BTC magic maker" or I'm a scammer. But it doesn't mean you weren't also trying to scam me by getting 100% profit out of the air.

If you say you will return them and you don't, then you're the criminal (fraud) and I am the victim. A stupid victim, but so what? It wasn't me who committed the fraud.

To not mention Pyramid schemes, where to not be scammed you need to scam...

I wouldn't say there's a crime on pyramid schemes since the whole thing is explicitly described in contracts to which all parties agree. There's no fraud there.

[theGECK]

I think the community is asking MtGox to explain the evidence in a timely manner.

I know I am. Knowing that BTC could be held at any time, even if it is a good reason, is enough for me to think twice before dealing with the organization. I may think it's a good thing, but I won't know that until I hear some more details. And while MtGox is not required to provide us with anything, I think that hearing something would do a lot to get us to quiet down.

[BCEmporium]

Perhaps, one of you worried folk email mtgox and press for a resolution. Ya know, make a petition, get people to sign it, email it to mtgox.


The problem here is that mtgox have no "term of service" or a transparent dispute resolution process.

Isn't this situation the issue, kiba, but the "precedent and principle".

Like theGECK said, if happens you can have your funds frozen out of the blue by "BTC vigilantes or militia", that means you lost trust and if you loose trust the market stops and BTC instead of 1 USD starts to worth 0 a non-trustful currency.

@caveden more than often "victims" claim to be more dumb then they really are... I believe in Justice to be a scale, seeking equilibrium, not a black & white place of "victims and criminals".

[kiba]

Isn't this situation the issue, kiba, but the "precedent and principle".

Like theGECK said, if happens you can have your funds frozen out of the blue by "BTC vigilantes or militia", that means you lost trust and if you loose trust the market stops and BTC instead of 1 USD starts to worth 0 a non-trustful currency.

@caveden more than often "victims" claim to be more dumb then they really are... I believe in Justice to be a scale, seeking equilibrium, not a black & white place of "victims and criminals".

We're not talking about BTC vigilantes or militia here.

[Bimmerhead]

Like theGECK said, if happens you can have your funds frozen out of the blue by "BTC vigilantes or militia", that means you lost trust and if you loose trust the market stops and BTC instead of 1 USD starts to worth 0 a non-trustful currency.

Or the value bumps up again as users seek the quickest exit -> converting their USD to bitcoin and getting out of mtgox.

[BCEmporium]

We're not talking about BTC vigilantes or militia here.

For what it seams, mtgox decided to become one himself in this case.

[caveden]

We're not talking about BTC vigilantes or militia here.

For what it seams, mtgox decided to become one himself in this case.

And I repeat that, if he manages to prove that he really caught a criminal, I will applaud him.

[caveden]

@caveden more than often "victims" claim to be more dumb then they really are... I believe in Justice to be a scale, seeking equilibrium, not a black & white place of "victims and criminals".

So what that victims claim to be dumber? If A fraud a contract he has with B while B respects it, A is the criminal and period. It's pretty much black & white in this case, there's nothing to "equilibrate" there.
There's absolutely nothing wrong in trying to search surreal profits in short periods of time through voluntary means, as you suggested in one of your posts. There's obviously something wrong in not respecting a contract.

[BCEmporium]

We're not talking about BTC vigilantes or militia here.

For what it seams, mtgox decided to become one himself in this case.

And I repeat that, if he manages to prove that he really caught a criminal, I will applaud him.

And if he doesn't? Will applaud the poor attempt either or will look at him as a criminal taken Baron would become his victim here?
Ever wonder why street justice must be avoided at all cost? Because it's neither justice nor what it seams may be what it indeed is.

[BCEmporium]

So what that victims claim to be dumber? If A fraud a contract he has with B while B respects it, A is the criminal and period. It's pretty much black & white in this case, there's nothing to "equilibrate" there.
There's absolutely nothing wrong in trying to search surreal profits in short periods of time through voluntary means, as you suggested in one of your posts. There's obviously something wrong in not respecting a contract.

Contracts and who or what disrespects or breaks them, or for what causes, isn't anything black and white!

[kiba]

 

I don't see how the real crux of the matter is getting solved by bickering over theoretical fraud.

[BCEmporium]

I don't see how the real crux of the matter is getting solved by bickering over theoretical fraud.

It doesn't, this topic must be solved between Baron and mtgox, yet it bring a discussion about ethics, morality, use and abuse of power, trust and everything that goes with it.

[Baron]

I offered to mtgox.com solution, I will send him those 3000 USD , and he will unblock my account.
Curently I don't received confirmation from mtgox.com that he is accepting with this solution.

sincerely I don't understand what is going on.

Also Now he is asking me that I send him passport scan.
Can you show me in mtgox.com website where is saying, that he could require identify check,by sending passport scans?
When I registered in mtgox.com from me was not requested to enter my name and surname, or other contacts, only emails.

Everyone must understand that I can't send passort scans to everyone who request. I am able to send passport scans only to banks,police or other serious institution.I don't really know who he is.
Does mtgox.com have any License to manage, require passport scans? Does mtgox.com have financial services and markets License(because he offering financial services he must have one )? I would be happy to see those licenses copys.

I am asking from mtgox.com to give me contact of man from who was stolen BTC, so I could find this problem solution with him.

[caveden]

And I repeat that, if he manages to prove that he really caught a criminal, I will applaud him.

And if he doesn't? Will applaud the poor attempt either or will look at him as a criminal taken Baron would become his victim here?

If he doesn't then people's trust on him could decrease, mine included. I don't know if he could be accused of crime, particularly if he returns the frozen funds, since, as people noted on this thread, there are no terms of service on MtGox.

Ever wonder why street justice must be avoided at all cost?

I don't think it must be avoided at all costs. I think, for ex., that those Chinese folks on the video I linked you above acted better than police and courts would.
I am not saying courts have no purpose! Better make it clear before people misinterpret me. Take a look at my messages in this topic, I even suggest how a voluntary arbitrator service for this kind of accusations could work, in order to make everything more transparent and efficient.

[BCEmporium]

caveden,

These folks on the video sized the moment, there was a robbery going on in front of their noses and they act to protect the victims - this is a most important feature of Justice; "Protect the Victims", and this is why there's that sentence; «Rather one guilty on the lose than one innocent arrested», since that would be the same as Justice doing what it is meant to prevent.
You can't compare however those guys to e-vigilantes.

Even so you've things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErA2LRa236U
A stupid joke that goes wrong...

In this whole case I may say, I avoided this topic for a while to listen from mtgox, I like to always listen both sides in disputes, but his silence and prepotency made me comment. So far, I follow Atlas logic.

[error]

I have been watching this with some interest since I got back to the forums here a few days ago. And I was considering signing up for mtgox, but decided to wait until this was resolved.

Today I read Baron's post where he says:

Also Now he is asking me that I send him passport scan.

This made me suspicious. So I started looking around. Unfortunately it appears that mtgox is running in a US datacenter. It also appears that Jed's contact information is public and that he is also in the US.

Now the US is the last place that I would run any sort of currency exchange, because the US government seems to think it can do whatever it wants to anyone at any time and there is little protection for people who desire financial security - like Bitcoin users!

It also makes the request for a passport scan understandable. I think it's likely that Jed got a visit from some people with guns and badges from Washington DC.

[CODERsp]

I offered to mtgox.com solution, I will send him those 3000 USD , and he will unblock my account.
Curently I don't received confirmation from mtgox.com that he is accepting with this solution.

sincerely I don't understand what is going on.

Also Now he is asking me that I send him passport scan.
Can you show me in mtgox.com website where is saying, that he could require identify check,by sending passport scans?
When I registered in mtgox.com from me was not requested to enter my name and surname, or other contacts, only emails.

Everyone must understand that I can't send passort scans to everyone who request. I am able to send passport scans only to banks,police or other serious institution.I don't really know who he is.
Does mtgox.com have any License to manage, require passport scans? Does mtgox.com have financial services and markets License(because he offering financial services he must have one )? I would be happy to see those licenses copys.

I am asking from mtgox.com to give me contact of man from who was stolen BTC, so I could find this problem solution with him.

Do you think you can get away for only 3000 USD and get other stolen money? I think, if you can so easy and fast give up with 3000 USD, then it's really some serious situation with it. Innocent man wouldn't give up with any sum, because he can prove it's case.

P.S. As you say, MtGox have no any License of financial institution, etc, so you trusted him money as is? You had to be more cautious operating such sums and now, you have no other option, than provide scans. So, urgently find passport with your account credentials )))))))))

[nanotube]

I think, if you can so easy and fast give up with 3000 USD, then it's really some serious situation with it. Innocent man wouldn't give up with any sum, because he can prove it's case.

yea, i think that particular bit is quite telling.

e.g., if i were merely the recipient of stolen btc, rather than the actual thief, i'd be like "hey, i paid for these fair and square, i don't owe you anything"

[FatherMcGruder]

I offered to mtgox.com solution, I will send him those 3000 USD , and he will unblock my account.
Curently I don't received confirmation from mtgox.com that he is accepting with this solution.

sincerely I don't understand what is going on.

Also Now he is asking me that I send him passport scan.

Try bribing with more money.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I offered to mtgox.com solution, I will send him those 3000 USD , and he will unblock my account.
Curently I don't received confirmation from mtgox.com that he is accepting with this solution.

sincerely I don't understand what is going on.

Also Now he is asking me that I send him passport scan.

Try bribing with more money.

+ 1

Freezing funds certainly isn't nice, but Baron is far from innocent.
I would never offer to give anybody a cent if i haven't done anything wrong.

Sociotechnics FAIL.