mtgox.com has blocked my account with 45 000 USD in it!

[BitterTea]

First of all, it will not change the situation.
Second, I not sending my documents to everyone who requests, only to banks and other serious institutions.

And stop asking unconscious questions.

Supposedly, you deposited $45,000 USD to mtgox. Do you deposit that much money just anywhere, or only at "serious institutions"? Why did you trust mtgox with your money, but you won't trust him with a scan of your passport? If you want to show that you are serious about this, send it to him.

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[TheKoziTwo]

First of all, it will not change the situation.
Second, I not sending my documents to everyone who requests, only to banks and other serious institutions.

And stop asking unconscious questions.

Supposedly, you deposited $45,000 USD to mtgox. Do you deposit that much money just anywhere, or only at "serious institutions"? Why did you trust mtgox with your money, but you won't trust him with a scan of your passport? If you want to show that you are serious about this, send it to him.

He did send ID (according to himself): http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg56018#msg56018

But did he according to mtgox...?

baron also refuses to provide proof of who he is or where he lives.

Doesnt seem so..

[BCEmporium]

OK, this is underground banking and underground banks operates by underground rules:

From the banker:

Bankers are stationary and rely mostly on reputation to stay on business.

• Strictly don't know/don't care policy
• If someone files a complaint, pretends to care, takes note, toss away the paper, if asked again in the future «is looking at it» - even if 20 years has passed

For the crooks;

• You don't f*** around with the banker, otherwise the banker may f*** you.

Simple rules, and you just take about 2 brain cells to put them in  

[kiba]

With this amount of info, plus all Baron's contradictions, weird excuses (being mute!?) and lack of willingness to identify himself even to MtGox, I think this case could be "closed", since it would be "proved beyond reasonable doubt" that Baron is a scammer. MtGox could use the frozen money in order to pay for the losses he and his customers suffered.

Yes, time to end this fiasco once and for all.

It's already the 2nd longest thread on this forum.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

With this amount of info, plus all Baron's contradictions, weird excuses (being mute!?) and lack of willingness to identify himself even to MtGox, I think this case could be "closed", since it would be "proved beyond reasonable doubt" that Baron is a scammer. MtGox could use the frozen money in order to pay for the losses he and his customers suffered.

Yes, time to end this fiasco once and for all.

It's already the 2nd longest thread on this forum.

Yeah - let's close it already, i've had enough for today.

[sturle]

Anyway, even if he is not a scammer, he behaves like one. And that certainly doesn't help his case.

Mtgox behaves exactly as I would have done in the same situation, and I am no scammer.

[sturle]

A normal, non-scammer person would be outraged and would start posting like hell explaining wtf is going on, or even attacking my behaviour.

Really?  This is exactly what Baron is doing.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Anyway, even if he is not a scammer, he behaves like one. And that certainly doesn't help his case.

Mtgox behaves exactly as I would have done in the same situation, and I am no scammer.

Well, perhaps I am different, but i would be much more talkative...

I don't like running business this "shady" way. I like openess about everything. Is it just me really ?

A normal, non-scammer person would be outraged and would start posting like hell explaining wtf is going on, or even attacking my behaviour.

Really?  This is exactly what Baron is doing.

Where do you see any outrage in Baron's behavior ? I certainly do not.
He is behaving like a typical nigerian scammer. Manipulating facts, avoiding confrontation & specific details and trying to get more people to support him.

Also, i didn't provoke Baron at first, i provoked only mtgox to trigger some more reponses from him. Baron was already talkative, or actually too talkative.

[Littleshop]

I would like that very much too.
I know that Baron is a scammer, but i still don't like Mtgox's attitude and his way of resolving matters like this.

Also, Mtgox should put a page with terms of service / dispute resolving procedure & security FAQ on his site.

If mtgox.com becomes less shady, people will not suspect him of scam in the future.

I would not want the responsibility of having to deal with this level of fraud and attack.  As bitcoins have grown from an experiment to a working currency and the dollar values have grown everyone has to be more careful.  Site security that would suffice for protecting $100 changes as the amounts turn into $10,000.  People can spend considerable time looking for flaws and holes.   I think Mtgox as done what he needed to for the level of attack.  This brings up a lot of interesting questions though....

Is there a such thing as tainted bitcoins?  Since most of this happened on the Mtgox site itself it really does not answer the question.  What if I sold an item for bitcoin and then when i tried to cash it in I am told they were stolen 2 transactions ago?  I send out the item of value so I am out that item.  What happens then?  Are people going to be confiscating bitcoins based on the history?  

[BitterTea]

Is there a such thing as tainted bitcoins?  Since most of this happened on the Mtgox site itself it really does not answer the question.  What if I sold an item for bitcoin and then when i tried to cash it in I am told they were stolen 2 transactions ago?  I send out the item of value so I am out that item.  What happens then?  Are people going to be confiscating bitcoins based on the history?  

There is no indication that this practice is happening, or will happen. Anyone could, on an individual basis, refuse to accept "tainted" Bitcoin, but I doubt their reputation would remain in good standing for long.

[sturle]

Mtgox has not said a word that really explains the problem for over one week, nor has MtGox explained WHY it has not said anything.

Yes he did.  He wrote that he was trying to get in touch with Baron, and while the investigation goes on the less details Baron knows the better.  Yet some people here keep nagging.  Please shut up and read his very concise posts which explain everything you and Baron need to know.  It is better that Baron doesn't know everything mtgox knows at this point, since Baron keeps changing his story.  Hold some facts until Baron's story has stabilized somewhat.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Mtgox has not said a word that really explains the problem for over one week, nor has MtGox explained WHY it has not said anything.

Yes he did.  He wrote that he was trying to get in touch with Baron, and while the investigation goes on the less details Baron knows the better.  Yet some people here keep nagging.  Please shut up and read his very concise posts which explain everything you and Baron need to know.  It is better that Baron doesn't know everything mtgox knows at this point, since Baron keeps changing his story.  Hold some facts until Baron's story has stabilized somewhat.

Ok, mtgox's behaviour can be understandable to me, but still there are no security FAQ, terms of service, dispute resolving procedure or anything on mtgox's site.

"Slim shady" way of doing business if you ask me.

[kiba]

Mtgox has not said a word that really explains the problem for over one week, nor has MtGoThx explained WHY it has not said anything.

Yes he did.  He wrote that he was trying to get in touch with Baron, and while the investigation goes on the less details Baron knows the better.  Yet some people here keep nagging.  Please shut up and read his very concise posts which explain everything you and Baron need to know.  It is better that Baron doesn't know everything mtgox knows at this point, since Baron keeps changing his story.  Hold some facts until Baron's story has stabilized somewhat.

The changes in Baron's story is hard to keep track of when everybody is discussing a thousand different things in the same forum thread.

This would be really different if it occurs in a arbitration with rules for processing evidence, notes what is proven and not proven, and no chit-chatting from outside observers.

Right now we're suffering growing pain as fraudster and scammers find new ways to attack holes in the way we done business. We didn't anticipate the needs for a dispute resolution process and TOS until Baron shows up with complaint. This happens despite the fact that clearcoin exists and possible security holes that had been discussed within the bitcoin community.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Mtgox has not said a word that really explains the problem for over one week, nor has MtGoThx explained WHY it has not said anything.

Yes he did.  He wrote that he was trying to get in touch with Baron, and while the investigation goes on the less details Baron knows the better.  Yet some people here keep nagging.  Please shut up and read his very concise posts which explain everything you and Baron need to know.  It is better that Baron doesn't know everything mtgox knows at this point, since Baron keeps changing his story.  Hold some facts until Baron's story has stabilized somewhat.

The changes in Baron's story is hard to keep track of when everybody is discussing a thousand different things in the same forum thread.
This would be really different if it occurs in a arbitration with rules for processing evidence, notes what is proven and not proven, and no chit-chatting from outside observers.

That's why i proposed to create an "arbitration topic" in which only Baron & mtgox could speak, and the rest could only observe.
Perhaps some other arbiter could also speak there.

Is this possible in SMF ?

[Syke]

Is there a such thing as tainted bitcoins?

I sure hope not. Having dealt with Visa/PP/etc chargebacks that stiff merchants, one of the key benefits of bitcoin in my opinion is their 1-way nature with no chargebacks. "Tainted" bitcoins just make more victims from an already bad situation.

[sturle]

What if I sold an item for bitcoin and then when i tried to cash it in I am told they were stolen 2 transactions ago?  I send out the item of value so I am out that item.  What happens then?  Are people going to be confiscating bitcoins based on the history?  

Keep a history of your transactions, and you'll be safe.  If you sold an item, you probably have a name and/or address of the buyer.  If you don't know who you got the coins from, or even how the coins came into your possession, and you are caught with stolen coins, then you are in trouble.  Just as with stolen goods in real life.  The larger the sum, the more important to keep account.

There should be a service to quickly check for stolen coins given an address.

[Nefario]

Is there a such thing as tainted bitcoins?

I sure hope not. Having dealt with Visa/PP/etc chargebacks that stiff merchants, one of the key benefits of bitcoin in my opinion is their 1-way nature with no chargebacks. "Tainted" bitcoins just make more victims from an already bad situation.

I suppose not, but since bitcoins all have a history, if you seem to always end up with coins that have been stolen then people will become suspicious. And it may get to the point where others wouldn't want to have anything to do with you.

You would become a pariah.

[kiba]

Keep a history of your transactions, and you'll be safe.  If you sold an item, you probably have a name and/or address of the buyer.  If you don't know who you got the coins from, or even how the coins came into your possession, and you are caught with stolen coins, then you are in trouble.  Just as with stolen goods in real life.  The larger the sum, the more important to keep account.

There should be a service to quickly check for stolen coins given an address.

Damn scammers, fraudsters, and thieves. They make the cost of everything goes up.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Keep a history of your transactions, and you'll be safe.  If you sold an item, you probably have a name and/or address of the buyer.  If you don't know who you got the coins from, or even how the coins came into your possession, and you are caught with stolen coins, then you are in trouble.  Just as with stolen goods in real life.  The larger the sum, the more important to keep account.

There should be a service to quickly check for stolen coins given an address.

Damn scammers, fraudsters, and thieves. They make the cost of everything goes up.

If you think in long-term, scamming people is simply stupid.
Even if you are extremely good at what you do, there is a superhero for every supervillain out there.

Sooner or later you will get busted, it is only matter of time.

Human mind is not perfect, it always makes mistakes. One critical or unlucky mistake is all it takes - you are going to the bottom.

[kiba]

If you think in long-term, scamming people is simply stupid.
Even if you are extremely good at what you do, there is a superhero for every supervillian out there.

That may be the case, but the cost of doing business is higher now that I have to go through clearcoin, writing clear rule of engagement, etc.