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[DirectBet]

He finished #1, Not tied for #1, but came in at #1. The dead heat would have been between the players tied for #5 or #10.

If your bet was on Rory McIlroy to win then your bet would not have been subjected to the dead heat rule because he did not share first place with another player.

However, your bet was on Rory McIlroy to finish in the top 5 and there were 6 players who shared the top 5 spot and therefore the dead heat rule applies.

This is a standard universal rule among Sportbooks. The reasoning behind it is because we the bookies have to pay out more winners than expected. For example in the top 5 bet we have to pay out 6 winners instead of 5, that's why the payout is proportionally reduced for each winner.

When a dead heat occurs your bet may partially win or lose.

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[DirectBet]

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For more details : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=721578.msg8300781#msg8300781

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[jjc326]

He finished #1, Not tied for #1, but came in at #1. The dead heat would have been between the players tied for #5 or #10.

If your bet was on Rory McIlroy to win then your bet would not have been subjected to the dead heat rule because he did not share first place with another player.

However, your bet was on Rory McIlroy to finish in the top 5 and there were 6 players who shared the top 5 spot and therefore the dead heat rule applies.

This is a standard universal rule among Sportbooks. The reasoning behind it is because we the bookies have to pay out more winners than expected. For example in the top 5 bet we have to pay out 6 winners instead of 5, that's why the payout is proportionally reduced for each winner.

When a dead heat occurs your bet may partially win or lose.

I don't really understand how you could partially win or lose as you put it.  It would be a loss for everyone as far as I can tell.  Unless you mean if you had the guy tied for 10th (in a top 10 scenario) you would only lose 1/10th of the winnings instead of 1/2.

In other words, for the top 10 bet, the bettor was saying only bettors with players finishing tied for 10th should have had bets reduced.  I can see either argument, it would be the same payout for the bookie as long as bookie reduced the payout to a third on the three players tied for 10th.

[Rating Place]

Sorry to jump in again but the only reduction occurs on the player's tied for 5th with top 5. A 1/2 reduction............... The poster should wins top 5 without reduction and top 10 without reduction.

[DirectBet]

I don't really understand how you could partially win or lose as you put it.  It would be a loss for everyone as far as I can tell.

Example for what I meant by partial win :

You bet 1 BTC at odds of 2 decimal for player to finish in the top 5, but as it turned out there are 6 players sharing the top 5 spots, so your payout of 2 BTC is multiplied by 5/6 for a total payout of 1.66666666 BTC. It's still a win but it's a partial win.

Sorry to jump in again but the only reduction occurs on the player's tied for 5th. A 1/2 reduction............... The poster should win without reduction.

If the bet was on the player to finish exactly at 5th place and he shared it with another player then you'd be right.

But the bet was on player to finish in one of the top 5 places, regardless of which exact place in the top 5, and since there were actually 6 such players, the dead heat rule was applied to all winners.

There are two important things to note here :

1. Our rule is stated very clearly with example and it is a universal rule.

2. The bet odds was factoring the possibility for a dead heat in the way we lay out in the rules. If the dead heat rule would apply only if Rory McIlroy finishes 5th and share this spot with another player as you suggest, then the bet odds would not be 1.02 but rather there would be no bet at all because such a possibility was non existent.

[Rating Place]

Common sense approach. You bet a marathon top 100. Five runners tie for 100, do you give a reduction to players 1-99? The rules are universal and you are misapplying dead heat rules.

Ties occur a lot in top 5 and top 10 and should be graded universally.

[jjc326]

Common sense approach. You bet a marathon top 100. Five runners tie for 100, do you give a reduction to players 1-99? The rules are universal and you are misapplying dead heat rules.

Ties occur a lot in top 5 and top 10 and should be graded universally.

Peeps can you cite to a specific other book that has a different dead heat rule?  DIrectbet's example does not sit well with me but I'd need to see another book with a different rule before I say it's BS.

[Rating Place]

Place 1st 5/10/20 etc.
You're betting on: the selected player finishing in the Top 5, 10, 20 etc.

Top 10 and Top 20 markets will be available on all full field European and PGA events. The Outright each way terms at the start of the tournament will determine the places for place betting.
Dead heat rules apply. For instance in top 20 betting, a player ties for 20th with 5 other players, i.e. 6 players all tied 20th, a 1/6th reduction to winnings would apply. If 2 players tied for 10th in top 10 betting then a ½ reduction would occur

https://support.skybet.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/270/~/golf-rules

[jjc326]

Place 1st 5/10/20 etc.
You're betting on: the selected player finishing in the Top 5, 10, 20 etc.

Top 10 and Top 20 markets will be available on all full field European and PGA events. The Outright each way terms at the start of the tournament will determine the places for place betting.
Dead heat rules apply. For instance in top 20 betting, a player ties for 20th with 5 other players, i.e. 6 players all tied 20th, a 1/6th reduction to winnings would apply. If 2 players tied for 10th in top 10 betting then a ½ reduction would occur

https://support.skybet.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/270/~/golf-rules

Generally I've sided with Directbet and think Peep's is being over the top and annoying but he's got a point here I think. 

[Rating Place]

Place 1st 5/10/20 etc.
You're betting on: the selected player finishing in the Top 5, 10, 20 etc.

Top 10 and Top 20 markets will be available on all full field European and PGA events. The Outright each way terms at the start of the tournament will determine the places for place betting.
Dead heat rules apply. For instance in top 20 betting, a player ties for 20th with 5 other players, i.e. 6 players all tied 20th, a 1/6th reduction to winnings would apply. If 2 players tied for 10th in top 10 betting then a ½ reduction would occur

https://support.skybet.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/270/~/golf-rules

Generally I've sided with Directbet and think Peep's is being over the top and annoying but he's got a point here I think.  

It was immature of me and wrong to attack in the past.

[Gogo ppp]

Place 1st 5/10/20 etc.
You're betting on: the selected player finishing in the Top 5, 10, 20 etc.

Top 10 and Top 20 markets will be available on all full field European and PGA events. The Outright each way terms at the start of the tournament will determine the places for place betting.
Dead heat rules apply. For instance in top 20 betting, a player ties for 20th with 5 other players, i.e. 6 players all tied 20th, a 1/6th reduction to winnings would apply. If 2 players tied for 10th in top 10 betting then a ½ reduction would occur

https://support.skybet.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/270/~/golf-rules

Generally I've sided with Directbet and think Peep's is being over the top and annoying but he's got a point here I think.  

It was immature of me and wrong to attack in the past.

Now that you've realized this don't you think you should list them in your chart and with a realistic grade?

[RyanK]

I made this same bet but on Phil Mickelson to finish top 5.  At first I thought the payout was wrong because I was thinking about it like a player in the tournament where a tie for 5th would split the pot between 5th and 6th.  Then I was told the rule and looked it up on the site and it made total sense because there is no payout for 6th and each spot 1-5 is equal so all places involved in the win should be averaged to take the winnings.  Directbet is absolutely right about this.

[jjc326]

Ryan I think whatever is the generally accepted rule would be the fairest thing of all. I mean as peeps says is it really fair to equally deduct even if your guy finished in first? I can see it both ways. Peeps any site other than skybet have that rule?  If Anonibet and nitrogen do it the same as directbet then directbet is right and peeps should drop it.

[tins]

I made this same bet but on Phil Mickelson to finish top 5.  At first I thought the payout was wrong because I was thinking about it like a player in the tournament where a tie for 5th would split the pot between 5th and 6th.  Then I was told the rule and looked it up on the site and it made total sense because there is no payout for 6th and each spot 1-5 is equal so all places involved in the win should be averaged to take the winnings.  Directbet is absolutely right about this.

I was pointed out this rule by DirectBet and they offered my the difference in what I thought my payout should have been versus what I was paid out. I turned down the offer. It was clearly in the rules and even though I was unaware of that, I fully abide by the rules that were in place.
Even though I did not take them up on it, I found it amazing that DirectBet made the offer to give me a free bet for the difference.
It is this customer service that keeps my business with DirectBet.

[jjc326]

I made this same bet but on Phil Mickelson to finish top 5.  At first I thought the payout was wrong because I was thinking about it like a player in the tournament where a tie for 5th would split the pot between 5th and 6th.  Then I was told the rule and looked it up on the site and it made total sense because there is no payout for 6th and each spot 1-5 is equal so all places involved in the win should be averaged to take the winnings.  Directbet is absolutely right about this.

I was pointed out this rule by DirectBet and they offered my the difference in what I thought my payout should have been versus what I was paid out. I turned down the offer. It was clearly in the rules and even though I was unaware of that, I fully abide by the rules that were in place.
Even though I did not take them up on it, I found it amazing that DirectBet made the offer to give me a free bet for the difference.
It is this customer service that keeps my business with DirectBet.

Yeah I've never seen directbet do anything dishonest. Maybe sometimes the lines aren't the best but live betting often has big vig lines. That was nice they offered the refund too.

[bOSsmarie]

I made this same bet but on Phil Mickelson to finish top 5.  At first I thought the payout was wrong because I was thinking about it like a player in the tournament where a tie for 5th would split the pot between 5th and 6th.  Then I was told the rule and looked it up on the site and it made total sense because there is no payout for 6th and each spot 1-5 is equal so all places involved in the win should be averaged to take the winnings.  Directbet is absolutely right about this.

I was pointed out this rule by DirectBet and they offered my the difference in what I thought my payout should have been versus what I was paid out. I turned down the offer. It was clearly in the rules and even though I was unaware of that, I fully abide by the rules that were in place.
Even though I did not take them up on it, I found it amazing that DirectBet made the offer to give me a free bet for the difference.
It is this customer service that keeps my business with DirectBet.

you both are winners man.. you are just being honest to each other..

Direct bet is just standing up to its reputation, a really great Sportsbook, and you are also showing that you are really an honest bettor.

[Rating Place]

edit- want to look at other books

[Rating Place]

Ryan I think whatever is the generally accepted rule would be the fairest thing of all. I mean as peeps says is it really fair to equally deduct even if your guy finished in first? I can see it both ways. Peeps any site other than skybet have that rule?  If Anonibet and nitrogen do it the same as directbet then directbet is right and peeps should drop it.

If Anonibet and Nitrogen do it the same way then I'll differ to them.

[Rating Place]

Place 1st 5/10/20 etc.
You're betting on: the selected player finishing in the Top 5, 10, 20 etc.

Top 10 and Top 20 markets will be available on all full field European and PGA events. The Outright each way terms at the start of the tournament will determine the places for place betting.
Dead heat rules apply. For instance in top 20 betting, a player ties for 20th with 5 other players, i.e. 6 players all tied 20th, a 1/6th reduction to winnings would apply. If 2 players tied for 10th in top 10 betting then a ½ reduction would occur

https://support.skybet.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/270/~/golf-rules

Generally I've sided with Directbet and think Peep's is being over the top and annoying but he's got a point here I think.  

It was immature of me and wrong to attack in the past.

Now that you've realized this don't you think you should list them in your chart and with a realistic grade?

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 I was immature as far as clogging the thread......As far as keeping him off the guide I think that he should stay off for constant spamming and breaking thread rules for the past 4 months. I'm sure you have read his posts. Although this didn't affect my decision, DirectBet posted that I requested the information which was never done, hurting his credibility.

So we collected all these posts and posted them, per his request

Peeps Place posted numerous times to DirectBet

The only rule for books is to keep their conversation on their own book and not that of another book.

Bookmaker Bet Moose

if I was Peeps I would've already taken you off the list since he's running a self-moderated rating system and can do whatever he wants at the end of the day.

Peeps Place

DirectBet- BetMoose makes a good point. If you continue to talk about things outside of the intended scope of this thread, I'll just take you off the rating guide.

Spam on Anonibet here right after the warning  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448302.1360 .

If I were to rate DirectBet my personal rating would be "D". There were a dichotomy of thoughts. Either a bottom book or a good book. Players in this thread say great. Not having to deposit is a nice thing, but players are able to withdraw at will with deposit books. Nitrogen has instant deposits and withdrawals.

 While his soccer offers are within industry standards, the American markets for live betting are the worst, fiat or bitcoin. Most of the pre-game odds in American markets are on the very high end but I can't say for sure if they are the worst including fiat.

The other point that bothers me is having bets in limbo. Although caused by the blockchain, the end result is that the player is making a wager that he may not want 20 minutes later.

They don't meet the longevity requirements of a "B" rating. Even without the time constraints, a two man shop open less than a year is very risky considering past events. All this considered they were given a "C" rating.

[DirectBet]

We looked into the dead heat rules of other books and it appears that our rule, while stated clearly, does semantically differ in a specific scenario.

The total reduction is the same but the distribution differs.

As an example, consider a bet on player X to finish the tournament in one of the top 5 places when two players tie for 5th place.

We treat it as 6 players finishing in top 5 spots instead of the expected 5 players and so payout is multiplied by 5/6 for all winners.

Other books reduce the payout only for the two players tied for 5th, but the reduction is much greater, in this example the payout is halved for the two players finishing 5th but remains unaffected for the other players.

It is important to note that both rules are fair and in the long run the expected payout to customers is the same in both. What's important is to follow rules consistently as they are stated.

That being said, in order to avoid confusion in the future we changed our rule to the more common one.

Starting today, the dead heat rule will apply to tied positions only.

All confirmed bets to date will be settled based on the old rule and going forward the new rule will apply to all new bets.

We've updated our Rules page accordingly : http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.