[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[marketorder]

What ever happened to that exchange Patrick Byrne was going to launch? I haven't heard anything about this for months          

[profitofthegods]

What ever happened to that exchange Patrick Byrne was going to launch? I haven't heard anything about this for months          

Same thing as happens with most big crypto related projects probably - they announce it thinking its going to be easy and tell everyone it will be finished in 3 months. 6 months later, they are still telling everyone it will launch in 3 months. Another 3 months later they announce a breakthrough - now it will be ready to launch in 6 months.

[GeminiSimba]

What ever happened to that exchange Patrick Byrne was going to launch? I haven't heard anything about this for months          

Same thing as happens with most big crypto related projects probably - they announce it thinking its going to be easy and tell everyone it will be finished in 3 months. 6 months later, they are still telling everyone it will launch in 3 months. Another 3 months later they announce a breakthrough - now it will be ready to launch in 6 months.

It's almost finished being built. They never said it would take 3 months, when they announced it they said they can probably get it coded by April of 2015 but even then you'd still need months to get regulatory approval. I watched this presentation the other day, it's not specifically about crypto but he "briefly" mentions that his crypto project is almost done being built here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFOpSTodk_U

[marketorder]

I personally doubt he'll ever get regulation approval. Those Facebook twins are still waiting for approval on there ETF's from several years ago   

What ever happened to that exchange Patrick Byrne was going to launch? I haven't heard anything about this for months          

Same thing as happens with most big crypto related projects probably - they announce it thinking its going to be easy and tell everyone it will be finished in 3 months. 6 months later, they are still telling everyone it will launch in 3 months. Another 3 months later they announce a breakthrough - now it will be ready to launch in 6 months.

It's almost finished being built. They never said it would take 3 months, when they announced it they said they can probably get it coded by April of 2015 but even then you'd still need months to get regulatory approval. I watched this presentation the other day, it's not specifically about crypto but he "briefly" mentions that his crypto project is almost done being built here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFOpSTodk_U

[GeminiSimba]

Hey have you guys seen the leader of SWARM came into the Counterparty nomination forums and basically said he thinks we have no future? What do you guys think? I personally responded in the Q&A section (my username there is simba6)

I'm Joel Dietz, Swarm founder. I have put together a document that I'm circulating privately at the moment in order to collect critical feedback and decide if it is worth running.

My main consideration is this. I'm interested in Counterparty becoming a healthy and growing ecosystem. This means that it needs all of the following:

(1) Excited developers building on the platform
(2) Business potential, either current or future
(3) Competitive advantage vis-a-vis other platforms offering the same or similar services
(4) Engaged community promoting the platform

Obviously I've already committed a lot of time and energy to this ecosystem, but it's not entirely clear to me that it is growing at the pace necessary to be competitive.

First, developer evangelism while perhaps better than any other 2.0 project on the Bitcoin blockchain is not nearly at the same level as other off-chain projects (NXT, BitShares, NuBits, Ethereum). I estimate that there are something like ~10 developer actively building something on the project and none of the bigger players are releasing back open source code.

A good example of this is Swarm, we've had a strong desire to contribute back open source code but have been inhibited by the fact that there is a strong internal competitive nature to the ecosystem. Compare the slogans of the different folks now working around the ecosystem: cryptoequity (Swarm), smart securities (Symbiont), cryptoequity (Overstock), smart corporations (Koinify).

Can you tell what the difference is? Probably not. I certainly can't. Although Swarm was the first to describe or offer any of this, it makes for a fairly cluttered ecosystem.

Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

The net result that I've observed is that many of the companies in the space are less committed to Counterparty than they once were. For example Koinify, who even now has a board seat on the Counterparty foundation, is not doing any of their announced upcoming sales on Counterparty. The only one they did, GEMS, was from someone who had already decided to use Counterparty in advance of the sale.

So in general people are making only a loose commitment to the underlying technology and ecosystem, which makes sense from a business perspective but is disappointing to me since in general when I started with Counterparty I invested a fair bit of effort and time in an effort to see the whole ecosystem grow.

My general feeling about Counterparty at the moment is disappointment. I don't have a specific desire to invest a lot of time and energy promoting something that is going to ultimately turn into a second place solution. I do have a large desire to open source code and provide other resources back to the community, but don't feel like I can do that in the current environment with the risk of taking a major economic loss on my part as a result.

In any case, all of these are factors in my decision to run or not run for the Counterparty board. If they can't be resolved, I honestly don't think Counterparty has a future.

Also, although I think it is nice to have a "community director," what is really needed is not simply some idea of 'community,' but some more long-term strategic planning to build out the whole ecosystem. In my opinion so far that's been neglected -- and the XCP price shows it.

[Matt Y]

It's hilarious.

[jrmg]

My Avast ask If I want uninstall XCP Search from google chrome, because that not have good reviews from avast users. I dont have remember I have install this. Are this safety or need I make new counterwallet asap before someone steal my coins?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xcp-search/dehcdbhmlefpldcphiennickgbecoogk

[Felipez]

I'm Joel Dietz, Swarm founder.
[...]
Obviously I've already committed a lot of time and energy to this ecosystem, but it's not entirely clear to me that it is growing at the pace necessary to be competitive.

True, and the community has committed more than one million dollars to your Swarm project. I hope you're still committed to growing your Swarm at the pace necessary to be competitive.

[gumcruise]

Joel is just throwing a tantrum because SWARM messed up the Bitcoin Foundation voting round.

[Felipez]

A good example of this is Swarm, we've had a strong desire to contribute back open source code but have been inhibited by the fact that there is a strong internal competitive nature to the ecosystem. Compare the slogans of the different folks now working around the ecosystem: cryptoequity (Swarm), smart securities (Symbiont), cryptoequity (Overstock), smart corporations (Koinify).

This is called competition. Welcome to the world of free enterprise. Joel, I still believe in you. Speed up development. You can still make it!

Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

What's up with the obsession on market cap? Want a huge mcap? Do like Ripple. Sit on 99% of the tokens yourself and manipulate the market for the rest. Voila, your business is "worth" a billion.

So in general people are making only a loose commitment to the underlying technology and ecosystem

New launches this month; Symbiont, CoinDaddy, Desktop Wallet, Chrome Wallet, python 3 development with Ethereum ... did I forget something? Something new on the SWARM? 

I do have a large desire to open source code and provide other resources back to the community, but don't feel like I can do that in the current environment with the risk of taking a major economic loss on my part as a result.

What have you really been up to this last year?

In any case, all of these are factors in my decision to run or not run for the Counterparty board. If they can't be resolved, I honestly don't think Counterparty has a future.

Please run.

[GeminiSimba]

Yeah one of the things I wanted to point out (as someone who follows counterparty and nxt) is the difference in caliber of those who browse the forums and engage in business ventures in these two protocols. It's easy to say nxt seems better because of their pretty forum and the amount of organized hype they are able to produce for investors and such but in counterparty the type of ventures you see being created are all world changing level ventures. There are very few cheap "Lets start a thousand dollar business" ideas going on in the counterparty ecosystem.

When I gauge the potential value of these various protocols I look at the level of the developers and investors in the ecosystem and my goodness here we have people with ideas like the bitcongress initiative (http://bitcongress.org/) which aims to replace how we vote nationally using tokens made using counterparty, we got ColonyEarth (https://colonyearth.com/) which is another world changer idea whose currency permacredits will be created from counterparty, by the way if you never heard of colony earth scroll down on the link i provided and look at the investors/team involved in that plan, you got the freaking Euro architect on that team!! I mean these are just a few but just about every counterparty business venture is a mega game changer idea so I think it will take a bit longer to see the sort of market cap results people may come to expect when they compare it to nxt or mastercoin who come out with things almost weekly you see what I mean?

[mcdoom432]

Does anyone know how I can access the features of the counterparty wallet that say not avaliable in my country (land of the free of all places). 

[dexX7]

Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

It is undeniable that XCP leads in terms of transaction volume and usage with a very significant difference, but looking at one number alone may leave a sligthly skewed impression, as this is sometimes a comparison between apples and oranges. You'd probably be surprised how many transactions can be associated with "send to many" actions, such as the distribution of LTBcoins.

What I learned over the time: the whole eco system is still at a very early stage.

[Matt Y]

Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

It is undeniable that XCP leads in terms of transaction volume and usage with a very significant difference, but looking at one number alone may leave a sligthly skewed impression, as this is sometimes a comparison between apples and oranges. You'd probably be surprised how many transactions can be associated with "send to many" actions, such as the distribution of LTBcoins.

What I learned over the time: the whole eco system is still at a very early stage.

What other number are there that you're looking at to make determinations, which were not mentioned? Transactions is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[pankogulo]

New Counterparty Update is live featuring Counterparty Foundation community director candidates, the Chrome XCP wallet, development updates & more. Check it out at http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-update-mar-27/

[Chang Hum]

Hey have you guys seen the leader of SWARM came into the Counterparty nomination forums and basically said he thinks we have no future? What do you guys think? I personally responded in the Q&A section (my username there is simba6)

I'm Joel Dietz, Swarm founder. I have put together a document that I'm circulating privately at the moment in order to collect critical feedback and decide if it is worth running.

My main consideration is this. I'm interested in Counterparty becoming a healthy and growing ecosystem. This means that it needs all of the following:

(1) Excited developers building on the platform
(2) Business potential, either current or future
(3) Competitive advantage vis-a-vis other platforms offering the same or similar services
(4) Engaged community promoting the platform

Obviously I've already committed a lot of time and energy to this ecosystem, but it's not entirely clear to me that it is growing at the pace necessary to be competitive.

First, developer evangelism while perhaps better than any other 2.0 project on the Bitcoin blockchain is not nearly at the same level as other off-chain projects (NXT, BitShares, NuBits, Ethereum). I estimate that there are something like ~10 developer actively building something on the project and none of the bigger players are releasing back open source code.

A good example of this is Swarm, we've had a strong desire to contribute back open source code but have been inhibited by the fact that there is a strong internal competitive nature to the ecosystem. Compare the slogans of the different folks now working around the ecosystem: cryptoequity (Swarm), smart securities (Symbiont), cryptoequity (Overstock), smart corporations (Koinify).

Can you tell what the difference is? Probably not. I certainly can't. Although Swarm was the first to describe or offer any of this, it makes for a fairly cluttered ecosystem.

Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

The net result that I've observed is that many of the companies in the space are less committed to Counterparty than they once were. For example Koinify, who even now has a board seat on the Counterparty foundation, is not doing any of their announced upcoming sales on Counterparty. The only one they did, GEMS, was from someone who had already decided to use Counterparty in advance of the sale.

So in general people are making only a loose commitment to the underlying technology and ecosystem, which makes sense from a business perspective but is disappointing to me since in general when I started with Counterparty I invested a fair bit of effort and time in an effort to see the whole ecosystem grow.

My general feeling about Counterparty at the moment is disappointment. I don't have a specific desire to invest a lot of time and energy promoting something that is going to ultimately turn into a second place solution. I do have a large desire to open source code and provide other resources back to the community, but don't feel like I can do that in the current environment with the risk of taking a major economic loss on my part as a result.

In any case, all of these are factors in my decision to run or not run for the Counterparty board. If they can't be resolved, I honestly don't think Counterparty has a future.

Also, although I think it is nice to have a "community director," what is really needed is not simply some idea of 'community,' but some more long-term strategic planning to build out the whole ecosystem. In my opinion so far that's been neglected -- and the XCP price shows it.

OK apologies in advance for the rant, it's meant in defense of the admiral Counterparty team, who at their own cost have built something incredible, functional and leading in the cryptosphere yet are getting talked down by a guy who's built next to nothing in a year at considerable expense to investors.

To me Counterparty is more interesting than Bitcoin itself, allowing business or individuals to produce tokens that can be used for anything from representing loans to business equity, whilst providing the mechanism to instantly administrate repayments or send dividends. This gives the opportunity to offer a value proposition to investors where Bitcoin fails.

Joel and his small team of young web designers took over $1m in fundraising a year or so ago to create an unfinished website. The proposition itself, was for them to syphon off as much cash as they can from anyone offering or purchasing crypto equities in exchange for using a platform they had yet to start (isn't Bitcointalk better for this purpose anyway? works fine, did for them, Counterparty, Mastercoin and many others! plus has massive amounts of established traffic to target prospective investors!).

It really is amazing what a non nonsensical 8 page PDF filled with pictures and charts that don't tally up can do!

A respectable business startup should take personal risk, sacrifice determination and passion ala Counterparty. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with raising funds to meet a goal but Joel and his team were aiming for the $21m mark nearly ten times Oculus Rift funding goals! seriously WTF! Joel & co are extremely lucky to have been supported so heavily in their efforts.

To put things in perspective I've got friends locally here in Chiangmai who are fantastic web designers with vastly more experience and their commercial rates are only in the $15 an hour bracket, $600 a week. OK it's a particular cheap place to live but come on, a $600 a week subsidy should be plenty enough for any young group of coders, just out of uni to follow their dreams.

If you put the amount they raised, into man hours of graft at that rate, it works out that they have about 70k hours of coding (8 years!) during which they're certainly not going to starve anywhere on the planet.

What Joel and his team have achieved in a year with a million dollars, I could pay a couple of friends locally to do for a few $k in far fewer months, pretty shameful. More shameful and a testament to the amount of front he's got, is that he's spreading muck about some of the most dedicated and on the money coders, who have built the most functional platform to date for the purpose of distributing custom tokens.

How he's got the nerve, or even feels that his opinion should be considered relevant a year after raising so much money, and producing so little himself really is beggars belief. Pretty funny! Joel you should perhaps reflect on the stark contrast and speed between your own heavily funded work, and the work the Counterparty team have produced at their own cost, in a similar time period.

[GeminiSimba]

Epic stuff

Yeah I notice a lot in this crypto space that many people are trying their hand for the first time at accepting investor money for their projects and when that "shareholder" pressure starts up because people are expecting a timely ROI all of a sudden people start cracking behind the seams. This is one of the reasons I really am worried for projects like Ethereum, those guys seem like some of the most intelligent young people in the world but I don't think many people who invested saw it as "donation money" and at some point there will be a realization that literally everyone who donated to that project essentially gave their money away and then what will happen?

I think everything the devs at counterparty are actually focusing on (development and optimization of the actual protocol itself) are the best things to focus on and everything related to the business sector in the space are the focus of those who are running business'. If you are running swarm, it would be understandable if all of a sudden the counterparty protocol became compromised, that would be reason to complain to the devs about their protol and maybe have a lack of faith, but complaining about business competition? Seriously? You're killing me Larry...

[dexX7]

What other number are there that you're looking at to make determinations, which were not mentioned? Transactions is all I can think of off the top of my head.

Well, that certainly depends, but let me first ask: what do you want to measure?

My point basically was: you could transfer tokens to 1000x receivers in 1000 transactions, or in a single send-to-owners transaction. Definitely a huge difference in the number of transactions, but would this be all that different? Likewise, looking at the market cap alone can create a skewed impression, say for example, when only a small percentage of all coins are free floating, which appears to be the case with Ripple, as far as I know.

That's not meant to slander anyone (e.g. Ripple), but rather: one should probably not get to crazy about one aspect, when the full picture has more than one.

[Matt Y]

Got it. Thanks.

[nakaone]

how far are smart contracts away from being implemented into mainnet?