[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[prophetx]

Can somebody explain how betting works or point me out where to read. Let's say I would like to bet on the increase of BTC/USD price using porquepine feed, so I create a bet saying btc price will be higher than X at the end of block N and the valid bet transactions have to be submitted before block M. The winner side takes all from the losing side, each participant will be paid out proportionally to his wager / all winner side wager. Is this how it works ?

it may not be at the end, the contract could get filled during the period leading to block N; different type of option style.  i, as you, am uncertain how the event trigger is coded to function.

[porqupine]

Can somebody explain how betting works or point me out where to read. Let's say I would like to bet on the increase of BTC/USD price using porquepine feed, so I create a bet saying btc price will be higher than X at the end of block N and the valid bet transactions have to be submitted before block M. The winner side takes all from the losing side, each participant will be paid out proportionally to his wager / all winner side wager. Is this how it works ?

The bets are directly matched with another participant.
When a bet is placed the protocol places the amount of the Wager in escrow and creates an 'open bet'.
Then if a bet is made taking the opposite side (Bear/Bull or Equal/Not Equal pair - with matching leverage and deadline), the protocol will see how much of the two positions can be matched and automatically proceed to match them.
When the Deadline is reached or if the funds of one side are exhausted entirely, the funds that were held in Escrow are credited to the Addresses involved in the bet in accordance with the price movement (for a CFD) - or as winner takes all (for Equal/Not Equal).

I'll write up a better description to put up on the site later today.

it may not be at the end, the contract could get filled during the period leading to block N; different type of option style.  i, as you, am uncertain how the event trigger is coded to function.

The current system calculates the change on every broadcast - but only settles the Bet if one of two conditions has occurred: The Deadline was reached (settled on deadline), or the escrowed funds of one side were exhausted entirely (Contract liquidated).

[td services]

This should definitely be refunded as it is a bug in the software, at least partially.

I received a nice PM from Counterwallet. They are very helpful and willing to refund the BTC. I'm really happy to find it didn't disappear into a black hole. The counterwallet looks like it will evolve into a great exchange platform. Other than the confirmation glitch, I was able to figure it out intuitively in about 15 minutes. It'll be fun exploring the asset types.

The money that you spent did disappear into a black hole (it was sent to random Bitcoin miners). We reimbursed you out of pocket.

Ouch, thanks! I knew the send fee goes to miners, about .00015 BTC total in Mastercoin with the three separate destinations. You're saying the 1% transaction fee on orders goes to BTC miners as well? This seems really high.

It's only when you buy something with BTC directly. The 1% fee is also only a temporary default.

OK. Too bad it doesn't go to the developers working on the project, though they explained the philosophy behind Counterparty at the Ethereum Meetup. The refund arrived, sorry it came out of your pockets.

Now its time to work on adding some more colors to my Counterwallet screen by adding some more assets.

[kuanglinliang]

We should keep our community better and health! 

[FrictionlessCoin]

I got a question that may have been explained prior.

How does counterparty prevent double spending of assets?

[Matt Y]

Let's Talk Bitcoin Reddit thread. Robby's interview: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/25jx6i/lets_talk_bitcoin_the_ideal_counterparty/

[nakaone]

Let's Talk Bitcoin Reddit thread. Robby's interview: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/25jx6i/lets_talk_bitcoin_the_ideal_counterparty/

good one, especially the part on proxy-tokens. the most interesting question is how do we reduce the issuer-risk to a minimum - if someone has an elegant solution for that, this can be a game changer in the whole cryptosphere.

[Patel]

Counterparty offers such a great incentive to Bitcoin by the use of its asset issuance, but I believe this technology is ahead of its time.

There is a huge benefit to Bitcoin because Counterparty allows companies to IPO at 0 cost. Basically, they can sell shares for Bitcoin, and get paid dividends in Bitcoin.

This creates a large demand in Bitcoin, but until the regulations are clear, no business will touch it because they don't want to get in trouble with the SEC.

[romerun]

Yes, xcp is way ahead of its time. Only a fraction of ppl know what bitcoin is, and only a fraction of bitcoiners are aware of xcp.

It reminds me of the pink sheet stocks boiler room in the wolf of wall street. I'm keen to see the day, someone set up physical offices helping local business raising fund using crypto and DEx as the ledger.

[Matt Y]

Counterparty offers such a great incentive to Bitcoin by the use of its asset issuance, but I believe this technology is ahead of its time.

There is a huge benefit to Bitcoin because Counterparty allows companies to IPO at 0 cost. Basically, they can sell shares for Bitcoin, and get paid dividends in Bitcoin.

This creates a large demand in Bitcoin, but until the regulations are clear, no business will touch it because they don't want to get in trouble with the SEC.

That's not entirely true if I understand what the lawyers tell us correctly. Also, there is at least one US based company using Counterparty in the way you describe, legally.

I don't want to butcher anything so I'll refrain from offering what would probably be a helpful explanation, but we'll work on getting some guidance out, if that's possible.

[xnova]

Counterwallet seems to log out every time I minimize or hide the window. Is this normal? I have to have it up and covering the screen as long as a transaction is pending?

Are you still experiencing this issue? If so, can you comment on it at https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterwallet/issues/148

[wukelan]

good idea  i am in.

[td services]

Counterwallet seems to log out every time I minimize or hide the window. Is this normal? I have to have it up and covering the screen as long as a transaction is pending?

Are you still experiencing this issue? If so, can you comment on it at https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterwallet/issues/148

I gave it a try, both minimizing and hiding behind other windows. It seems to work fine now. I didn't try it with Bitcoin-QT running, will comment if problem returns later.

Thanks!

[delulo]

Counterparty offers such a great incentive to Bitcoin by the use of its asset issuance, but I believe this technology is ahead of its time.

There is a huge benefit to Bitcoin because Counterparty allows companies to IPO at 0 cost. Basically, they can sell shares for Bitcoin, and get paid dividends in Bitcoin.

This creates a large demand in Bitcoin, but until the regulations are clear, no business will touch it because they don't want to get in trouble with the SEC.

What specifically would be legal issues for an IPO on Counterparty?

[520Bit]

Everybody can get a 0.66% interest of XCP at bter platform: http://bter.com/myaccount/interest

[FrictionlessCoin]

Counterparty offers such a great incentive to Bitcoin by the use of its asset issuance, but I believe this technology is ahead of its time.

There is a huge benefit to Bitcoin because Counterparty allows companies to IPO at 0 cost. Basically, they can sell shares for Bitcoin, and get paid dividends in Bitcoin.

This creates a large demand in Bitcoin, but until the regulations are clear, no business will touch it because they don't want to get in trouble with the SEC.

What specifically would be legal issues for an IPO on Counterparty?

It depends exactly what you are selling.

If you are selling something that is equivalent to an investment then there is indeed a lot of legal issues in the U.S.

I believe counterparty circumvented the issue by having the proceeds of the investment go to nowhere (i.e. burned).

Safecoin circumvents the issue by selling tokens that are equivalent to storage space.

Ripple circumvents the issue by selling tokens that are equivalent to toll passes.

Bitcoin circumvents the issue because there is no IPO,  you just have to mine shares on your own.

[frozen123]

Everybody can get a 0.66% interest of XCP at bter platform: http://bter.com/myaccount/interest

Rate Of Interest Per Annum. This feature also support other coins.

[porqupine]

I got a question that may have been explained prior.

How does counterparty prevent double spending of assets?

I couldn't find a website link, which I'm also rather sure there was. Anyways Counterparty assets just like Bitcoins do not exist as a 'thing', it is a ledger starting from the burn address (or issuer address) keeping track of what is where by embedding the information into Bitcoin transactions, which Counterparty nodes (by parsing the Bitcoin blockchain) interpret according to the protocol rules.
Accordingly as with Bitcoin transactions debits to an address for amounts&/assets it does not have will not be accepted by Counterparty Nodes, and the Counterparty protocol does not use unconfirmed transactions - therefore the possibility of a double spend on Counterparty is  the same as of a Bitcoin blockchain fork (the reason for using the Bitcoin blockchain - as opposed to side chains, or other coins etc.) One difference to note is in Bitcoin consensus is established by evaluating the transactions through a scripting language, where as Counterparty transactions are evaluated through an api.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I got a question that may have been explained prior.

How does counterparty prevent double spending of assets?

I couldn't find a website link, which I'm also rather sure there was. Anyways Counterparty assets just like Bitcoins do not exist as a 'thing', it is a ledger starting from the burn address (or issuer address) keeping track of what is where by embedding the information into Bitcoin transactions, which Counterparty nodes (by parsing the Bitcoin blockchain) interpret according to the protocol rules.
Accordingly as with Bitcoin transactions debits to an address for amounts&/assets it does not have will not be accepted by Counterparty Nodes, and the Counterparty protocol does not use unconfirmed transactions - therefore the possibility of a double spend on Counterparty is  the same as of a Bitcoin blockchain fork (the reason for using the Bitcoin blockchain - as opposed to side chains, or other coins etc.) One difference to note is in Bitcoin consensus is established by evaluating the transactions through a scripting language, where as Counterparty transactions are evaluated through an api.

With Bitcoin miners validate the script to ensure validity prior to inclusion in the blockchain.

With CounterParty invalid data can get itself into the blockchain.  However, as I understand it correctly, invalid data cannot find itself into the working memory of the CounterParty nodes.  Therefore, even though they are rejected, they are essentially ignored?

What happens though if an address overspends in the same block?   How does CounterParty resolve which payment to make out of all the payments in the block? 

[PhantomPhreak]

I got a question that may have been explained prior.

How does counterparty prevent double spending of assets?

I couldn't find a website link, which I'm also rather sure there was. Anyways Counterparty assets just like Bitcoins do not exist as a 'thing', it is a ledger starting from the burn address (or issuer address) keeping track of what is where by embedding the information into Bitcoin transactions, which Counterparty nodes (by parsing the Bitcoin blockchain) interpret according to the protocol rules.
Accordingly as with Bitcoin transactions debits to an address for amounts&/assets it does not have will not be accepted by Counterparty Nodes, and the Counterparty protocol does not use unconfirmed transactions - therefore the possibility of a double spend on Counterparty is  the same as of a Bitcoin blockchain fork (the reason for using the Bitcoin blockchain - as opposed to side chains, or other coins etc.) One difference to note is in Bitcoin consensus is established by evaluating the transactions through a scripting language, where as Counterparty transactions are evaluated through an api.

With Bitcoin miners validate the script to ensure validity prior to inclusion in the blockchain.

With CounterParty invalid data can get itself into the blockchain.  However, as I understand it correctly, invalid data cannot find itself into the working memory of the CounterParty nodes.  Therefore, even though they are rejected, they are essentially ignored?

What happens though if an address overspends in the same block?   How does CounterParty resolve which payment to make out of all the payments in the block? 

That's right. Overspends are just ignored. Counterparty also doesn't pay much attention at all to block boundaries: it parses every transaction in a block one-at-a-time, in the order in which the transactions are listed within the block.