[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[Zer0Sum]

Be a part of history! Bet on the first sport event using 2.0 platform (XCP).
Bet on the Champions League Final:
http://test.countersports.com/index.php/match/0000000308/Real%20Madrid%20vs%20Atl.%20Madrid%20at%202014-05-24%2018:40:00
Use testnet XCP for free!
PM us your XCP testnet address and get some free testnet XCP to bet.

Make sure you have the NBA Finals... I would be betting.

[CryptoFinanceUK]

Guys,

We're urgently looking for people to run Counterparty meetup groups in towns and cities all over the world. So far, we have two groups that are just starting up (London, and Silicon Valley) but we'd like at least ten times as many.

Ethereum, for example, have 35 meetup groups running. The founders and I need your help to bridge this gap.

These groups (and associated hackathons) are a central part of our strategy for getting people involved with Counterparty, and getting innovative new projects developing on the platform.  

https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,361.msg2461/topicseen.html#msg2461

Want to put yourself at the heart of the Counterparty movement in your local area?

Please PM me, or respond in the thread above.

Niki

[CryptoFinanceUK]

Delighted to announce that SyRenity will be running our Israel Meetup group.

Who else wants to step-up and provide leadership in their local city?

You'll position yourself as the "go-to" person in your area for Counterparty, and make some great connections over a few drinks.

Please PM me.

[xnova]

Delighted to announce that SyRenity will be running our Israel Meetup group.

Who else wants to step-up and provide leadership in their local city?

You'll position yourself as the "go-to" person in your area for Counterparty, and make some great connections over a few drinks.

Please PM me.

I'd also like to note that Evan, Adam and I (and anyone else from the Counterparty team) would be more than happy to Skype in for any of these meetups. As Niki stated, getting these meetups going is a big priority for us, and we can offer whatever support people need.

[romerun]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

[baddw]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

Well, it's not quite darksend (because as far as I can tell, your sending address ends up with the same amount of XCP that it put in; you can't have the mixed XCP end up in an arbitrary address, right?); but it is decentralized, trustless coinmixing.  Although it only works between two parties, right?  And they both have to contribute the same amount, and they both receive the same amount.... So it's not a huge win for anonymity/privacy, although it is a tool that can be used for greater obfuscation.

[Equality 7-2521]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

Well, it's not quite darksend (because as far as I can tell, your sending address ends up with the same amount of XCP that it put in; you can't have the mixed XCP end up in an arbitrary address, right?); but it is decentralized, trustless coinmixing.  Although it only works between two parties, right?  And they both have to contribute the same amount, and they both receive the same amount.... So it's not a huge win for anonymity/privacy, although it is a tool that can be used for greater obfuscation.

You certainly can have mixed XCP (or any asset) end up in different addresses by placing multiple orders on the exchange simultaneously. Also, it works between more than two parties because the network matches partial orders too. So, for example, you can place an order of 100XCP for 100XCP and you can place another order from a different address of 50XCP for 50XCP. You get the 50XCP match (swap) and other users can match the rest of the 100XCP order. In this simple example you have mixed the coins a little bit with yourself (your pseudonyms) and a little bit with others. This all comes with the plausible deniabliity of the trades verifiably having gone through the decentralized exchange. You have now broken any chain of deanonymized transactions at that address. Feel free to simply send the balance to any arbitrary address of your choice at that stage to start from a clean slate.

Best practice must now be established for mixing within Counterparty.

[baddw]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

Well, it's not quite darksend (because as far as I can tell, your sending address ends up with the same amount of XCP that it put in; you can't have the mixed XCP end up in an arbitrary address, right?); but it is decentralized, trustless coinmixing.  Although it only works between two parties, right?  And they both have to contribute the same amount, and they both receive the same amount.... So it's not a huge win for anonymity/privacy, although it is a tool that can be used for greater obfuscation.

You certainly can have mixed XCP (or any asset) end up in different addresses by placing multiple orders on the exchange simultaneously.

I place an order, I want to exchange 20 XCP for 20 XCP.  Somebody else comes along and matches the order.  Their 20 XCP go to me, my 20 XCP go to them.  Unless I am able to redirect the resultant 20 XCP to a 2nd address instead of my original address?  In other words, can there be a third party involved in an exchange transaction?  (Even if there were, it would be pretty transparent.... the redirect address / third party would be directly linked to the first party, as the third party would receive the proceeds from the exchange rather than the first party.)

Also, it works between more than two parties because the network matches partial orders too. So, for example, you can place an order of 100XCP for 100XCP and you can place another order from a different address of 50XCP for 50XCP. You get the 50XCP match (swap) and other users can match the rest of the 100XCP order. In this simple example you have mixed the coins a little bit with yourself (your pseudonyms) and a little bit with others. This all comes with the plausible deniabliity of the trades verifiably having gone through the decentralized exchange. You have now broken any chain of deanonymized transactions at that address. Feel free to simply send the balance to any arbitrary address of your choice at that stage to start from a clean slate.

Best practice must now be established for mixing within Counterparty.

But each one of the trades will be shown atomically on the blockchain, right?  So the partial match, 50XCP from you to somebody else, and 50XCP from them to you.  The 50XCP from the original 100XCP order still remain outstanding, but there's no disguising the 50XCP that are actually exchanged.  It doesn't happen like a multisig situation where all of the matching orders (totaling 100XCP) go through in one large transaction, right?

[dexX7]

Simply sending tokens to another address seems less obvious than trading tokens for the same tokens.

[Matt Y]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26nd29/decentralized_coin_mixer/

[Matt Y]

Jeremy Lam, the creator of Vennd, was interviewed by Adam on Let's Talk Bitcoin today. He outlines how Vennd which runs on top of Counterparty will allow easier IPOs and cross-blockchain trading. Incredibly awesome technology.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/ltb-113-enabling-tech

[mindtomatter]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

Well, it's not quite darksend (because as far as I can tell, your sending address ends up with the same amount of XCP that it put in; you can't have the mixed XCP end up in an arbitrary address, right?); but it is decentralized, trustless coinmixing.  Although it only works between two parties, right?  And they both have to contribute the same amount, and they both receive the same amount.... So it's not a huge win for anonymity/privacy, although it is a tool that can be used for greater obfuscation.

Its a win if people standardize the amounts they want to mix, so .1, 1btc, 10btc and 100btc - This can be a best practices thing with it just the unwritten rule those are the increments or a drop-down preset option for this trade-for-same transaction.

[qtgwith]

Jeremy Lam, the creator of Vennd, was interviewed by Adam on Let's Talk Bitcoin today. He outlines how Vennd which runs on top of Counterparty will allow easier IPOs and cross-blockchain trading. Incredibly awesome technology.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/ltb-113-enabling-tech

sounds great!

[baddw]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

Well, it's not quite darksend (because as far as I can tell, your sending address ends up with the same amount of XCP that it put in; you can't have the mixed XCP end up in an arbitrary address, right?); but it is decentralized, trustless coinmixing.  Although it only works between two parties, right?  And they both have to contribute the same amount, and they both receive the same amount.... So it's not a huge win for anonymity/privacy, although it is a tool that can be used for greater obfuscation.

Its a win if people standardize the amounts they want to mix, so .1, 1btc, 10btc and 100btc - This can be a best practices thing with it just the unwritten rule those are the increments or a drop-down preset option for this trade-for-same transaction.

But, again, there can only be two parties to a trade, right?  And it's an atomic transaction, right?  If I trade 1BTC to you, in return for 1BTC from you, we both end up with 1BTC, and both of our BTC's can be traced to the transaction where we openly and transparently swapped 1BTC for 1BTC.  Such a transaction could never be mistaken for anything other than an attempt to obfuscate, and it really doesn't even do a good job of that.

CoinJoin and Darksend work because they have a BUNCH of inputs from a BUNCH of addresses, all sending (say) 10 DRK as input, all receiving different outputs, where all of the outputs are to new wallet addresses and/or third parties, and everything is bundled into one large transaction that is signed by all sending addresses so that it is impossible to match up the inputs with the outputs, since the inputs are all standardized and the outputs are in randomized order.

The whole reason why it works is that it takes coins from more than 2 senders, so there is some plausible deniability there.  If you and I both have 10 $1 bills, and we each drop the $1 bills into a hat, and then we each pull out $10 from the hat and go on our separate ways, there's no denying what the hell is going on.  It's a pointless transaction.  We each put in $10, and we each took out $10.

But now think if 20 people (let's call them A_1 through A_20) walk up to the hat, and each of them deposits 10 $1 bills, so there's now $200 in the hat.  Now 20 new people (B_1 through B_20) walk up and withdraw varying amounts out of the hat -- some take $1, some take $9, some take $10, some take $5 -- it's impossible for an outside observer to determine which of the depositors gave the money to which of the withdrawers.  (And of course some of the withdrawers are proxies for the original depositors anyway -- i.e., new wallet addresses or even stealth addresses.)  If the police come up to A_3 afterwards and say "Hey!  You sent money to B_17, who is a drug dealer!" then they can never prove it because there were 19 other people acting as senders in the transaction, and any one of them could have been the one who sent the money to B_17.

[gusk73]

Ask, xcp and cha, which is an advantage?

Of course,xcp !

Of course, xcp!
This is a very good coin, it has great potential!
 

[gusk73]

I am also optimistic about this coin, good coin surely someone gossiping

Yes, I watch it for a long time, I found that it is a very promising coins!
 

[Spratan]

Privacy in Counterparty is really important.
Like with bitcoin, we don't want people to know how many dividends we earned and which assets we are holding, or even trades strategy on each asset, etc

So a mixer or other privacy system is a big improvement, or requirement.

[Equality 7-2521]

Apparently, we have darksend before darkcoin, we just did not turn it on.

Coin Mixing within Counterparty

Well, it's not quite darksend (because as far as I can tell, your sending address ends up with the same amount of XCP that it put in; you can't have the mixed XCP end up in an arbitrary address, right?); but it is decentralized, trustless coinmixing.  Although it only works between two parties, right?  And they both have to contribute the same amount, and they both receive the same amount.... So it's not a huge win for anonymity/privacy, although it is a tool that can be used for greater obfuscation.

Its a win if people standardize the amounts they want to mix, so .1, 1btc, 10btc and 100btc - This can be a best practices thing with it just the unwritten rule those are the increments or a drop-down preset option for this trade-for-same transaction.

But, again, there can only be two parties to a trade, right?  And it's an atomic transaction, right?  If I trade 1BTC to you, in return for 1BTC from you, we both end up with 1BTC, and both of our BTC's can be traced to the transaction where we openly and transparently swapped 1BTC for 1BTC.  Such a transaction could never be mistaken for anything other than an attempt to obfuscate, and it really doesn't even do a good job of that.

CoinJoin and Darksend work because they have a BUNCH of inputs from a BUNCH of addresses, all sending (say) 10 DRK as input, all receiving different outputs, where all of the outputs are to new wallet addresses and/or third parties, and everything is bundled into one large transaction that is signed by all sending addresses so that it is impossible to match up the inputs with the outputs, since the inputs are all standardized and the outputs are in randomized order.

The whole reason why it works is that it takes coins from more than 2 senders, so there is some plausible deniability there.  If you and I both have 10 $1 bills, and we each drop the $1 bills into a hat, and then we each pull out $10 from the hat and go on our separate ways, there's no denying what the hell is going on.  It's a pointless transaction.  We each put in $10, and we each took out $10.

But now think if 20 people (let's call them A_1 through A_20) walk up to the hat, and each of them deposits 10 $1 bills, so there's now $200 in the hat.  Now 20 new people (B_1 through B_20) walk up and withdraw varying amounts out of the hat -- some take $1, some take $9, some take $10, some take $5 -- it's impossible for an outside observer to determine which of the depositors gave the money to which of the withdrawers.  (And of course some of the withdrawers are proxies for the original depositors anyway -- i.e., new wallet addresses or even stealth addresses.)  If the police come up to A_3 afterwards and say "Hey!  You sent money to B_17, who is a drug dealer!" then they can never prove it because there were 19 other people acting as senders in the transaction, and any one of them could have been the one who sent the money to B_17.

We apologize, you are correct. We do not mean to mislead anyone. As it stands, trading XCP for XCP appears to be a trivial obfuscation as it is still a direct public link in the chain of ownership. (Please largely ignore our previous post as we misunderstood your initial qualms and we addressed the wrong thing entirely). However, it may prove to be one of a number of tools which when used in combination provide varying degrees of anonymity: from trivial obfuscation to near total anonymity.

As you say, if a number of orders could be bundled together to make one composite order (from one address say) and then redistributed after being matched (to new addresses) then we have more significant privacy.

[flayway]

I dont know is that possible make, but i start think how it working if everyone who want mix coins buy asset and asset automatically send back after x time or when its buyed 100% to every address who have buy it. Example what i mean there is asset quantity 100, and there is 100 people who are interested make 1coin mix with 100 people, they all buy 1 quantity of this asset and when its fulfilled, asset sending it randomly back. Or then that waiting there coming like 5x 100 mixer full and mix with each other and with everyones coins.

[W2014]

I'm not sure if this has been posted:

Overstock.com itself began accepting Bitcoin shortly after his interview with News BTC late last year. Mr. Byrne was the keynote speaker at "Bitcoin 2014" this month and boldly claimed that Overstock.com, which is a publicly traded company on NASDAQ, is mulling a dual listing for his company's shares on decentralized exchange on the Bitcoin Blockchain e.g. CounterParty.

Source:

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/abblog/blog.pl?/pl/2014/5/1401323908.html