[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[Matt Y]

XCP will derive its value though betting which has a huge potential market.

Is betting only allowed in XCP for this reason?

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

[bitcoinrocks]

XCP will derive its value though betting which has a huge potential market.

Is betting only allowed in XCP for this reason?

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

Just the kind of answer I was hoping for.  I think we're doing this the right way.

[StarenseN]

XCP will derive its value though betting which has a huge potential market.

Is betting only allowed in XCP for this reason?

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

wrong, bitcoin can be escrowed by multisignature?

[Matt Y]

XCP will derive its value though betting which has a huge potential market.

Is betting only allowed in XCP for this reason?

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

wrong, bitcoin can be escrowed by multisignature?

Bitcoins cannot be escrowed for binary betting and CFDs which require more functionality. Adam can explain this better and more technically, but the short of it is that bitcoins cannot be escrowed for betting purposes.

Edit: I found a short description Adam provided me a while back of what the difference is...

Multisig and escrow for betting are almost completely orthogonal. Counterparty allows for new kinds of financial transactions; multisig allows for different *control* over transactions of any sort. They're compatible, but independent.

[porqupine]

XCP will derive its value though betting which has a huge potential market.

Is betting only allowed in XCP for this reason?

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

wrong, bitcoin can be escrowed by multisignature?

What Matt I believe is talking about is a protocol level or trust-less escrow which happens with CFD/Bets or DEX trades between XCP and other Counterparty assets, where the transactions are automated based on initially specified conditions.

Bitcoin is not escrowed by multisignature in as much as it's not escrowed by single signature and can be escrowed with or without multi-signature. What multi-signature does is require more than one signature for a transaction, while this is incredibly useful for a number of cases, a bet or transaction with Multi-sig still involves a trusted third party, only the trust can be shared among signature holders.

[mindtomatter]

I've been advising on SWARM for the last several months and I can tell you if the price of issuing assets went substantially up it would indeed push more towards projects that do not impose those arbitrary costs.

OK. I accept.

MtoMatter: What is than in your opinion the main value driver for counterparty and XCP the token? if no use-cases are created that require substantial use of XCP, how do you think it can gain value? 
[/quote]

Every time an asset is issued or BTC purchase is made some of the fixed supply XCP are burned.  XCP is MUCH more convenient to use as your currency on the decentralized exchange because the trades are fast and automatic whereas with Bitcoin they require a bunch of extra time and steps.   Right now XCP isn't really being used since the first applications demonstrating its usefulness are just starting to pop up.

[romerun]

great job niceplum !

[xnova]

Counterwallet going down for about 30 minutes for a systems upgrade (the 'insight' software has a large update involved, which makes this a bit longer than a normal update).

The multiserver support is still in testing and will be added soon, which should remove the need for these outages in the future.

EDIT: done

[mindtomatter]

Thanks to everyone who bought NICEPLUM assets, you rock!

do you have any threads/twitter/etc to update share holders ?

I have set up this blog to keep you guys up to date: http://coinedtalk.com/
There is also a twitter @niceplum, but I prefer Coinedtalk.


 
The first sell order on the DEX has been filled ( 2.3% NICEPLUM sold. 10% remaining out of 100,000. )

And the first test payment distribution has been paid out (a total of 2 XCP).



P.S. Sorry Tatiana! But NICEPLUM was the first artist coin issued on Counterparty.


..

We're not claiming a technical first.  We have been planning this for the last two months and talking about it publicly for the past two weeks, the asset wasn't even registered until after the fundraiser started.

So you can have the 'first embedded in the blockchain' until you find somebody who beat you and didn't do anything with it either  Tatiana started accepting funds before you did, she just chose to pursue a model that issues the tokens at the end rather than the beginning.

Congrats on your coin though, I've bought several batches

[deliciousowl]

We're not claiming a technical first.  We have been planning this for the last two months and talking about it publicly for the past two weeks, the asset wasn't even registered until after the fundraiser started.

So you can have the 'first embedded in the blockchain' until you find somebody who beat you and didn't do anything with it either  Tatiana started accepting funds before you did, she just chose to pursue a model that issues the tokens at the end rather than the beginning.

Congrats on your coin though, I've bought several batches

Thanks for the support!  And yes, I prefered to do the fundraiser entirely over Counterparty by issuing the assets in advance. These are just a few out of the many ways that Counterparty functionality can be used. I'm certain that new creative ways to use it will continue being discovered

[maaku]

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

o_O

[mindtomatter]

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

o_O

XCP will derive its value though betting which has a huge potential market.

Is betting only allowed in XCP for this reason?

And because bitcoins cannot be escrowed.

wrong, bitcoin can be escrowed by multisignature?

What Matt I believe is talking about is a protocol level or trust-less escrow which happens with CFD/Bets or DEX trades between XCP and other Counterparty assets, where the transactions are automated based on initially specified conditions.

Bitcoin is not escrowed by multisignature in as much as it's not escrowed by single signature and can be escrowed with or without multi-signature. What multi-signature does is require more than one signature for a transaction, while this is incredibly useful for a number of cases, a bet or transaction with Multi-sig still involves a trusted third party, only the trust can be shared among signature holders.

[maaku]

There are trustless escrows (c.f. the trustless flipped die protocol). Obviously even more is possible if you are talking about extending bitcoin.

[mindtomatter]

There are trustless escrows (c.f. the trustless flipped die protocol). Obviously even more is possible if you are talking about extending bitcoin.

Right, and I believe the point is that they've extended Bitcoin with XCP, but since it is done on the layer above Bitcoin, they can't actually control the lower layer bitcoin token in this way.  If someone develops some open source code that enables them to escrow Bitcoin effectively for their needs, they'll add it.   Until then, XCP can be escrowed for the need and works very well on the dex

[xnova]

counterwallet 1.2.1 just pushed

* added full contacts for difference support
* added enhanced statistics page...starting to compile wallet-level statistics now (will be showing top referers to the wallet here shortly) ...right now it doesn't show day by day wallet data because we just started gathering that
* numerous bug fixes

[beyond1999]

how to mine it

[Matt Y]

how to mine it

XCP cannot be mined. All XCP was created during the burn period, which is now over.

[frozen123]

An great article from TsingHua Financial Review.   "Crowdfund Intellectual Property on the Bitcoin Blockchain"   Used Counterparty as the example.  
written by tsinghua university PHD student Feng Han,ShangHai Bitcoin Camp entrepreneur co-founder Ying GU ,Tsinghua
financial review senior editor Hongyu Jia and  Internet financial laboratory director  Zhenlin zhai.    
link:   http://www.thfr.com.cn/post.php?id=2292#0-tsina-1-69488-397232819ff9a47a7b7e80a40613cfe1

[MoneypakTrader.com]

Awesome, great work on the PR getting the price back up!
4 times the burn is not bad at all, hoped for over 5 times at this point, but understandable given the previous gamestoppers we mentioned.

I'm going to check this thread to see if any of those huge problems we mentioned that were keeping the price down were fixed, fingers crossed.
Especially that total reissue failure, that was a HUGE gamestopper. I'll just check blockscan to see if that was put back in. Anyone see any assets succeed in a reissue?

[MoneypakTrader.com]

looks like there is still no interest in fixing the massive BTCpay problem the simple way, by accepting that the system is designed for options.

Allow options to sell XCP to be offered for BTC (could be done for other assets too, but only allowing options for BTC/XCP pairing would drive demand for XCP).
Requires:
Purchase fee to xcp offeror (minimal BTC fee to avoid major loss if there's multiple acceptances or set fee in XCP to prevent multiple matches). Price/rate for executing the option. Duration for the option.

Offering the option:
XCP holder places order specifying:
1) XCP and rate offered in the option
2) Purchase fee demanded for the option (in BTC/XCP or whatever asset they choose), divides by the portion accepted.
3) Minimum division permitted (smallest XCP amount allowed to be optioned)
4) Block time given for the order and block time given for the option (if different).
-OR-
BTC Holder places order to buy an option specifying:
1) XCP and rate Requested in the option
2) Purchase fee escrowed for the option (in XCP or other asset they choose), divides for the portion accepted.
3) Minimum division permitted (smallest XCP amount allowed to be optioned)
4) Block time given for the order and block time given for the option (if different).

Accepting an option:
A) orders overlap, match is made XCP is escrowed for the option
-OR-
B) XCP holder accepts an option:
specifically identifies option when sending command, it is accepted into database with blocks, XCP is escrowed, purchase fee claimed by XCP holder.
-OR-
C) BTC holder claims an option:
specifically identifies option with accept command, (BTC/XCP/etc is sent to pay for option in the accept command, as specified, XCP holder receives fee immediately), XCP is escrowed.

Claiming an option:
option holder pays for option, receives XCP

Cancels must be done prior to acceptance only, cancel doesn't register until all other transactions in a block.

Examples:
1) XCP holder asks 0.01BTC for their option of 1 BTC for 250 XCP with 100 blocks as the time and 250 xcp as minimum division.
 BTC holder must specifically match the order in full (sends the BTC fee to the xcp holder and locks the option for the remaining time).
2) XCP holder asks 1XCP for their option of 1 BTC for 200 XCP with 100 blocks as the time of offer and 100 blocks for the option with 5XCP as minimum division.
 BTC holder can either match the order directly with a command (sends at least 1XCP times 5/200 as minimum fee [0.025 xcp] for a 5 xcp option or 1 xcp times 200/200 for the full option on 200 XCP)
-OR-
 They place a compatible order, for example:
BTC holder offers 5 xcp for getting an option of 6 BTC for 1000xcp with any blocks for offer, but 95 blocks for option time with 100 XCP minimum option amount.


But this is only one large problem stopping XCP from blossoming, the others previously mentioned are still holding this 2nd gen altcoin back.